Should NON US citizens get Concealed permits?

[wrightme]

my position hasnt changed. I was agreeing with the specific statement you made...for the most part

So then you were incorrect to state that we were in agreement.

Good, we agree for the most part.lol

Much more correct for you to have said, "Good, we agree on this specific statement......"

We are obviously not in "agree[ment] for the most part."

 

[amlevin]

ETA: Terrorists. Terrorists, especially, are going to get what they want regardless of legality. They've already proven that they can be quite dangerous with things not considered weapons. The BEST possible defense against a group of unlawfully armed terrorists is a group of lawfully armed LACs.

You are right about their using things we don't normally consider weapons. Can't quite understand how a bunch of law abiding citizens with guns are going to defend against an airplane that is hijacked. Likewise against a car/truck bomb.

You don't need any weapons at all to just keep your eyes and ears open, reporting anything suspicious that you notice.

Timothy McVeigh might not have been successful if someone had passed on his strange purchases of fertilizer and racing gasoline. Likewise the 9-11 hijackers if someone had reported the "students" that only wanted to know how to fly planes, not takeoff/land them. Again, no weapons required.

 

[dizzle2]

So then you were incorrect to state that we were in agreement.

Much more correct for you to have said, "Good, we agree on this specific statement......"

We are obviously not in "agree[ment] for the most part."

way to over analyze what I was actually trying to say

 

[sudden valley gunner]

I'll be at plantation on Monday if you care to join me.

Working all day, what time? I normally just go hiking or drive to a pit.

 

[wrightme]

way to over analyze what I was actually trying to say

No, actually what happened was that I saw the exact words you used, and accepted them at face value. Then you showed where you had not stated what you meant.

 

[oldbanger]

My POV, why the hell should a non-citizen have the right to obtain a cpl...

In 1886 the US Supreme Court ruled that the 14th Amendment rights of Chinese citizens in California were violated by discriminatory laundry business licensing. They ruled, unanimously, "The fourteenth amendment to the constitution is not confined to the protection of citizens. It says: ‘Nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.’ These provisions are universal in their application, to all persons within the territorial jurisdiction, without regard to any differences of race, of color, or of nationality; and the equal protection of the laws is a pledge of the protection of equal laws" Since then, courts have interpreted the 14th Amendment to require states to follow the Bill of Rights.

"non-citizen"... shame on you, do you even know a lawful resident?

I guess that you would never love/ marry/ adopt/ befriend/ work with/ accept a kidney from/ have as a Dr/ let save your life with a handgun they were carrying if they were a non-citizen.

What other non-people are on your list?

 

[White_russian5]

Working all day, what time? I normally just go hiking or drive to a pit.

I monday was the only day I could talk my boss into letting me have off this week so I'm pretty flexible on when I can go. I would love to go to some of the pits around here I have no idea where any of them are.

 

[wrightme]

Out of curiosity, do you have a link to that? I would love to add that to my list.

In 1886 the US Supreme Court ruled that the 14th Amendment rights of Chinese citizens in California were violated by discriminatory laundry business licensing. They ruled, unanimously, "The fourteenth amendment to the constitution is not confined to the protection of citizens. It says: ‘Nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.’ These provisions are universal in their application, to all persons within the territorial jurisdiction, without regard to any differences of race, of color, or of nationality; and the equal protection of the laws is a pledge of the protection of equal laws" Since then, courts have interpreted the 14th Amendment to require states to follow the Bill of Rights.

"non-citizen"... shame on you, do you even know a lawful resident?

I guess that you would never love/ marry/ adopt/ befriend/ work with/ accept a kidney from/ have as a Dr/ let save your life with a handgun they were carrying if they were a non-citizen.

What other non-people are on your list?

 

[sudden valley gunner]

I monday was the only day I could talk my boss into letting me have off this week so I'm pretty flexible on when I can go. I would love to go to some of the pits around here I have no idea where any of them are.

Most the good ones are 1/2 the way to Baker. But in the woods outside of city limits and on the East side of the free way is pretty much good anywhere in county. I live in Sudden Valley and hike about a 1/2 mile up the hill to this cool spot I have here.

 

[dizzle2]

In 1886 the US Supreme Court ruled that the 14th Amendment rights of Chinese citizens in California were violated by discriminatory laundry business licensing. They ruled, unanimously, "The fourteenth amendment to the constitution is not confined to the protection of citizens. It says: ‘Nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.’ These provisions are universal in their application, to all persons within the territorial jurisdiction, without regard to any differences of race, of color, or of nationality; and the equal protection of the laws is a pledge of the protection of equal laws" Since then, courts have interpreted the 14th Amendment to require states to follow the Bill of Rights.

"non-citizen"... shame on you, do you even know a lawful resident?

I guess that you would never love/ marry/ adopt/ befriend/ work with/ accept a kidney from/ have as a Dr/ let save your life with a handgun they were carrying if they were a non-citizen.

What other non-people are on your list?

we are not denying them life, nor do we deny them liberty, and we do not deny them property. in fact we give them tons of money every year, to go to college as foreign students, exclusive scholarships, etc.

 

[oneeyeross]

you can ask the same question for an 18y old adult citizen...

Yes, and if the chance to vote on 18 y.o. concealed carry, or legal drinking age to 18 ever comes up to vote, I will vote for both.

If a young man/woman is mature enough to join the military, fight and possibly die for his country, it is beyond comprehension that they aren't mature enough to drink or carry a firearm. (notice, I did not say drink AND carry! LOL!)

As a libertarian, I find both of those laws bizarre...

 

[oneeyeross]

we are not denying them life, nor do we deny them liberty, and we do not deny them property. in fact we give them tons of money every year, to go to college as foreign students, exclusive scholarships, etc.

Yes, but if you deny someone the means to protect that life, you are not, in fact, helping ensure that they have a right to life. The same acts that would deny a LEGAL resident alien the right to carry a gun, those same arguments, have been and still are being used to deny US citizens of their rights to carry firearms. (i.e. Chicago, Washington D.C even after Heller)...

 

[dizzle2]

Yes, but if you deny someone the means to protect that life, you are not, in fact, helping ensure that they have a right to life. The same acts that would deny a LEGAL resident alien the right to carry a gun, those same arguments, have been and still are being used to deny US citizens of their rights to carry firearms. (i.e. Chicago, Washington D.C even after Heller)...

look. if you want the rights of a US citizen...then become one. They shouldnt be able o double dip in the sense of getting all our rights and commodities, but still keep their citizenship to their country

 

[White_russian5]

Most the good ones are 1/2 the way to Baker. But in the woods outside of city limits and on the East side of the free way is pretty much good anywhere in county. I live in Sudden Valley and hike about a 1/2 mile up the hill to this cool spot I have here.

PM me next time you go shooting I might join you if I'm not working.

 

[dizzle2]

No, actually what happened was that I saw the exact words you used, and accepted them at face value. Then you showed where you had not stated what you meant.

Notice in the constitution it says born or naturalized. permanent residents are neither born here nor naturalized. A Lawful Permanent Resident can apply for US citizenship, or naturalization, after five years of living here. Sounds like a fair price to pay in order to get the rights we have as Americans.

 

[White_russian5]

Notice in the constitution it says born or naturalized. permanent residents are neither born here nor naturalized. A Lawful Permanent Resident can apply for US citizenship, or naturalization, after five years of living here. Sounds like a fair price to pay in order to get the rights we have as Americans.

So what makes a person an American? Personally I consider my self an American even though I wasn't born here. Are the soilders fighting for us in Iraq who weren't born here considered un-American as well?

 

[amlevin]

So what makes a person an American? Personally I consider my self an American even though I wasn't born here. Are the soilders fighting for us in Iraq who weren't born here considered un-American as well?

You can call yourself anything you want. You just can't call yourself an American Citizen unless you want to go through the process.

 

[White_russian5]

You can call yourself anything you want. You just can't call yourself an American Citizen unless you want to go through the process.

So what other rights should I not be entitled to that are guaranteed to me by the constitution?

 

[amlevin]

So what other rights should I not be entitled to that are guaranteed to me by the constitution?

That's the only one I know of. All you have to do is decide that you WANT to and then don't let any excuses get in your way. Citizenship is guaranteed to all natural born but to immigrants you have to apply and go through the process. Just because you see it as a tedious process it isn't being "denied" to you.

 

[dizzle2]

That's the only one I know of. All you have to do is decide that you WANT to and then don't let any excuses get in your way. Citizenship is guaranteed to all natural born but to immigrants you have to apply and go through the process. Just because you see it as a tedious process it isn't being "denied" to you.

+1. this is the best way to sum it up