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Sig, Glock, or 1911

Sig, Glock, or 1911

  • Sig

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Glock

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 1911

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other type

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ---AND---

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 9mm

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 0.3569999999999999840127884453977458178997039794921875

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 0.40000000000000002220446049250313080847263336181640625

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 0.450000000000000011102230246251565404236316680908203125

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other caliber

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

xmirage2kx

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Thanks for the info so far. I know it is what feels best to me, but many people who like/dislike a gun have reasons for this. It is the extra stuff that is nice to know like a sig shouldnt be cocked and locked.
 

Mainsail

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xmirage2kx wrote:
Thanks for the info so far. I know it is what feels best to me, but many people who like/dislike a gun have reasons for this. It is the extra stuff that is nice to know like a sig shouldnt be cocked and locked.

A Sig cannot be cocked and locked. Cocked (hammer back) and locked (safety engaged) is a safe and normal carry method for pistols like the Colt 1911 or Browning High Power because they were designed to be carried that way.

Carrying a pistol not so designed, or a revolver, with the hammer back is foolish. It exposes you and anyone around you to pointless danger. It doesn’t offer any tactical advantages and actually is detrimental from a legal point of view should you ever have to draw your weapon.
 

.40 Cal

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COTEP FOREVER!, North Carolina, USA
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What's your budget? Youcan find a 1911 for the same price as a glock or a sig. On the lower end of 1911's you'll find Rock Island, High Standard, Charles Daly and Taurus. All good, but not the best production parts and accesories. I would have to say to go with a sig .45 at that point for reliability and quality. Once you're in the $800 + category, Colt, Springfield, Wilson, Les Baer... the 1911 list is endless and extraordinary.
 

dreamcro

Campaign Veteran
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Aug 11, 2007
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Maricopa, Arizona, USA
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Carrying a pistol not so designed, or a revolver, with the hammer back is foolish. It exposes you and anyone around you to pointless danger. It doesn’t offer any tactical advantages and actually is detrimental from a legal point of view should you ever have to draw your weapon.

I give up!! I have carried that gun for 11 years(sometimes cocked for a few moments until situations cooled) If YOU think thats foolish, thats your prerogative. I have enough common sense to make certain judgement calls for my self.

Sometimes this board seems like a pissing contest.
 

Mainsail

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dreamcro wrote:
Carrying a pistol not so designed, or a revolver, with the hammer back is foolish. It exposes you and anyone around you to pointless danger. It doesn’t offer any tactical advantages and actually is detrimental from a legal point of view should you ever have to draw your weapon.
I give up!! I have carried that gun for 11 years(sometimes cocked for a few moments until situations cooled) If YOU think thats foolish, thats your prerogative. I have enough common sense to make certain judgement calls for my self.

Sometimes this board seems like a pissing contest.

It isn’t that I think such carry is foolish and dangerous; the entire shooting community all the way back to the old Colt single action revolvers thinks it’s foolish and dangerous. I’m not trying to get into a pissing match with you, there’s no need to; you are wrong. Don’t take offense; just accept that you are wrong. If you ever have to draw in a stressful situation the likelihood that your pistol will unintentionally discharge goes up exponentially. Police departments all over the world train their officers not to cock their double action revolvers and pistols for safety and liability reasons. The legal implications are well documented; read some of the old Ayoob Files.

Don’t take my word for it, ask any qualified firearms instructor; they will tell you that you are wrong, it’s unsafe, and that you shouldn’t do it. Carrying a double action pistol or revolver around in a holster for any period of time with the hammer cocked back is dangerous. I don’t know any better or nicer way of saying it.

Open a thread over at THR if you are so sure about the practice; just prepared to be crucified.
 

Marco

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island.gif
 

molonlabetn

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Joined
May 23, 2006
Messages
450
Location
, Tennessee, USA
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Mainsail wrote:
A Sig cannot be cocked and locked. Cocked (hammer back) and locked (safety engaged) is a safe and normal carry method for pistols like the Colt 1911 or Browning High Power because they were designed to be carried that way.

Carrying a pistol not so designed, or a revolver, with the hammer back is foolish. It exposes you and anyone around you to pointless danger. It doesn’t offer any tactical advantages and actually is detrimental from a legal point of view should you ever have to draw your weapon.
Actually... Sig has introduced Single-Action-Only versions of several of their P22X pistols, which include safeties and full capability to be carried 'cocked-and-locked'. I fired one this past weekend... very nice.
 

tarzan1888

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, , USA
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[size=]][/size]
[size=[font="Times New Roman"][/font]]
[size=[font="Times New Roman"]The Gospel According To John (Moses Browning)[/font]]
John Moses Browning was perhaps the finest firearms designer, ever. His designs continue to work and to serve almost 100 years after they were created. There is an ongoing controversy about the reliability and safety of current 1911s vs. other "modern" pistols and I think this about sums the situation up.


[align=center]

[/align]

[align=center]
As translated from the original ancient manuscripts by Fr. Frog.
© copyright 2002 by John C. Schaefer[/align]
1 In the beginning was the 1911, and the 1911 was THE pistol, and it was good. And behold the Lord said, thou shalt not muck with my disciple John's design for it is good and it workith. For John made the 1911, and lo all of his weapons, from the designs which I, the Lord, gave him upon the mountain.

2 And shouldst thou muck with it, and hang all manner of foul implements upon it, and profane its internal parts, thou shalt surely have malfunctions, and in the midst of battle thou shalt surely come to harm.

3 And as the ages passed men in their ignorance and arrogance didst forget the word of the Lord and began to profane the 1911. The tribe of the gamesman did place recoil spring guides and extended slide releases upon the 1911 and their metal smiths didst tighten the tolerances and alter parts to their liking, their clearness of mind being clouded by lust.

4 Their artisans did hang all manner of foul implements upon the 1911 and did so alter it that it became impractical to purchase. For lo, the artisans didst charge a great tax upon the purchasers of the 1911 so that the lowly field worker could not afford one. And the profaning of the internal parts didst render it unworkable when the dust of the land fell upon it.

5 And lo, they didst install adjustable sights, which are an abomination unto the Lord. For they doth break and loose their zero when thou dost need true aim. And those who have done so will be slain in great numbers by their enemies in the great battle. [suP]a[/suP]

6 And it came to pass that the Lord didst see the abomination wrought by man and didst cause, as he had warned, fearful malfunctions to come upon the abominations and upon the artisans who thought they could do no wrong.

7 Seeing the malfunctions and the confusion of men the lord of the underworld did see an opportunity to further ensnare man and didst bring forth pistols made of plastic, whose form was such that they looked and felt like a brick, yet the eyes of man being clouded, they were consumed by the plastic pistol and did buy vast quantities of them.

8 And being a deceitful spirit the lord of the underworld did make these plastic pistols unamenable to the artisans of earth and they were unable to muck much with the design, and lo these pistols did appear to function.

9 And the evil one also brought forth pistols in which the trigger didst both cock and fire them and which require a "dingus" to make them appear safe.

10 But man being stupid did not understand these new pistols and didst proceed to shoot themselves with the plastic pistol and with the trigger cocking pistols for lo their manual of arms required great intelligence which man had long since forsaken. Yet man continue to gloat over these new pistols blaming evil forces for the negligent discharges which they themselves had committed.

11 And when man had been totally ensnared with the plastic pistol, the lord of the underworld didst cause a plague of the terrible Ka-Boom to descend upon man and the plastic pistols delivered their retribution upon men. And there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth in the land.

12 Then seeing that the eyes of man were slowly being opened and that man was truly sorrowful for his sinful misdeeds, the Lord did send his messengers in the form of artisans who did hear and obey the teachings of the prophet and who didst restore the profaned 1911s to their proper configuration, and lo, to the amazement of men they didst begin to work as the prophet had intended.

13 And the men of the land didst drive out the charlatans and profaners from the land, and there was joy and peace in the land, except for the evil sprits which tried occasionally to prey on the men and women of the land and who were sent to the place of eternal damnation [suP]b[/suP] by the followers of John.


[align=center]

[/align]
[suP]a [/suP]Several old manuscripts add the following text. "And they [also rendered as "these men"] didst chamber it for cartridges who's calibers startith with numbers less than the Holy Number 4. And lo the Lord did cause great grief amongst these men when their enemies who were struck in battle with these lesser numbers didst not fall but did continue to cause great harm."

[suP]b[/suP] or Hell

© copyright 2002 by John C. Schaefer


[align=center]

[/align]
While the above was intended to be (slightly) humorous it really is the truth. Old John Browning really knew his stuff and his tolerances were well thought out. Many of the modern variations and custom pistols are made way to tight especially in the slide to frame fit and many custom barrels have very tight chambers. (One big name 'smith is notorious for guns so tight that on new pistols the slides stick when manually cycled until they have worn in.)

A tight slide to frame fit really isn't needed for accuracy. As long as the barrel to slide lock-up is consistent the pistol will shoot where it is pointed and shoot small groups. However, if tested in a Ransom rest which mechanically holds the pistol by the grip, they don't appear to group well since the slide is not held consistently in the same place on the frame. However, when held in the hand and sighted they group just fine.

The same goes for the barrel bushing. Having it fitted to the slide so tightly that it requires a major effort and special tools to remove accomplishes nothing that can't be done with a fit that can be removed by hand or in the worst case by using a magazine base plate for leverage.

Two bad trends, IMHO, are the current fad of using Allen screws or Torx head screws on the 1911, and the use of square profiled hammer struts. With original spec'd parts no tools are needed to detail strip the 1911. The shaft of the safety can be used to push out the mainspring housing pin, the hammer strut can be used to drift out all remaining cross pins, and the lips on the sear spring can be used to remove the grip screws and magazine catch. While you shouldn't need one, if you are enamored with full length guide rods be sure you use one that does not require any tools to disassemble the pistol.

If the extractor is properly shaped and tension is properly set, if someone hasn't mucked with the internals, if there are no burrs or razor edges internally, and the magazines aren't crap, they'll work every time.

Speaking of magazines. If you want the best magazine available you should check out Tripp Research's Cobramag. These 8 round magazines are probably the only real improvement made to JMB's design since 1911. They hold the top cartridge slightly higher than the original magazines and give smoother feeding with modern flat point and JHP ammunition. The magazines run about $29 each and are available directly from Tripp Research. These magazines get 5 Flippers from Fr. Frog."



Everything above is a quote

Just a little something I thought you mignt like.



Tarzan
 

Superlite27

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Excellent post Tarzan! It is the honest-to-God truth. (bad pun intended)

I'll argue with the magazine recommendation, though. I am a 7-round mag stickler. Here's why:

The three most important things in a carried pistol are:

#1) Reliability

#2) Reliability

#3) Reliability

Some people carry certain guns because they look cool. Some people carry others because they're lightweight. Others carry their favorites because they shoot well, or because they are easily concealable.

A pistol's purpose is to fire rounds at a target when that target is trying to kill you. Looking cool doesn't throw lead. Comfortable carry doesn't throw lead. Having a nifty light rail doesn't throw lead.

A pistol that fires a bullet EVERY SINGLE TIME without fail is Job #1. If the thing goes "click" when you REALLY need it to go "bang", itmakes your gee-wiz, neato laser sight pointless.

The heart of a good 1911 is its magazine. In order to fit an extra round into a 1911 style 7-round magazine, something has to go in order to make room. There are only two things other than the bullet inside: the follower (which is set in design for functionality) or the spring. In order to make room for another bullet, the spring must be shortened. While this doesn't adversely effect the first several rounds, when you get down to the last few, the spring is near the end of its range of travel. (Read: weaker) Compound this with storing rounds in it for long periods of time (Read: weaker still) and you have a recipe for failure.

I have personally had problems with theslide not locking back on last rounds out of two8-round magazines that I have owned. If you need a quick reload, taking time to pull the slide back is not a good thing.

Iwill DEFINATELYhave 8 rounds (one in the chamber) then reload withanother DEFINATE 7 rounds. Anyone else can keep theirmaybe9 rounds, maybe have to fix a stoppage, then maybe 8 rounds.

I've got 15 rounds headed out the barrel.

You've got two more............maybe.

Or you can just buy a Glock and look cool.
 

tarzan1888

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Messages
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Location
, , USA
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Superlite27 wrote:
...I'll argue with the magazine recommendation, though. I am a 7-round mag stickler. Here's why...

You have no argument with me. That was all part of the quote.



Tarzan
 

Superlite27

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Messages
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God's Country, Missouri
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Sorry, I misread it. Something about the flaming red "Everything above is a quote" must have confused me.

This must be why I can't see those "Firearms are not allowed on the premises" signs.
 

tarzan1888

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Joined
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Messages
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Location
, , USA
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Superlite27 wrote:
Sorry, I misread it. Something about the flaming red "Everything above is a quote" must have confused me.

This must be why I can't see those "Firearms are not allowed on the premises" signs.

I added it after your post.

Thanks for letting me know that I wasn't clear.



Tarzan
 
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