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The Open Carry Report
- Thread starter Ironbar
- Start date
Teddybearfrmhell
Regular Member
it also appears that the previous poster has matured in his presentation too.... good post warren and congrats on a difficult carry.... cops, banks, nervous jitters and still it came out alright!
We-the-People
Regular Member
Good job Warren, and let me second Tedde's comment about maturing in your writing.
My OC for the last two days has been limited.
FRIDAY I OC'd to the courthouse got out of my vehicle and stood at the door in the door in the parking lot as I removed my sidearm, holster, spare mag and pouch. Secured them in my vehicle safe ($60) at Sportsmans with a push button combo as well as a backup key. Attended court until noonish then rearmed in the parking lot and headed out. Had lunch with my girl friend at her work then went home.
TODAY, just WalMart Eagle Point.
Next week I've got jury duty and I so want to carry my empty holster into the courthouse but I also want to get on a jury if possible so I probably won't do that. Friday I was a party to the case and didn't carry as I didn't want it to have any impact.
My OC for the last two days has been limited.
FRIDAY I OC'd to the courthouse got out of my vehicle and stood at the door in the door in the parking lot as I removed my sidearm, holster, spare mag and pouch. Secured them in my vehicle safe ($60) at Sportsmans with a push button combo as well as a backup key. Attended court until noonish then rearmed in the parking lot and headed out. Had lunch with my girl friend at her work then went home.
TODAY, just WalMart Eagle Point.
Next week I've got jury duty and I so want to carry my empty holster into the courthouse but I also want to get on a jury if possible so I probably won't do that. Friday I was a party to the case and didn't carry as I didn't want it to have any impact.
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VW_Factor
Regular Member
I ended up carrying my empty holster to jury duty. No one (not even the security people checking people at the door) seemed to care even a little bit. They didn't even have me take it off to inspect. Nothing more than a glance from other jurors in the pool, attorneys, judge, etc. didn't bat an eye.
Last week I went to the library to pick up a book, nobody cared.
On Saturday I went and saw a musical group play at a nearby music store. I concealed there since it has been freezing lately, but once there and after I warmed up I took off my overcoat. The lady next to me chit-chatted a bit and during intermission I got up and got a bite to eat. Nobody seemed to mind or care.
Tuesday I did the bulk of my Thanksgiving shopping at Market of Choice, was there an hour or so, no issues.
Last night I went to my local Taqueria where I've spoken to a worker there about open carry. He and I spoke a bit and nobody seemed to mind.
Today I went to safeway to pick up a couple last minute Thanksgiving ingredients. Quite a few people there buying some things, but again no issues.
As usual, a perfect update with a whole lot of nothing happening.
On Saturday I went and saw a musical group play at a nearby music store. I concealed there since it has been freezing lately, but once there and after I warmed up I took off my overcoat. The lady next to me chit-chatted a bit and during intermission I got up and got a bite to eat. Nobody seemed to mind or care.
Tuesday I did the bulk of my Thanksgiving shopping at Market of Choice, was there an hour or so, no issues.
Last night I went to my local Taqueria where I've spoken to a worker there about open carry. He and I spoke a bit and nobody seemed to mind.
Today I went to safeway to pick up a couple last minute Thanksgiving ingredients. Quite a few people there buying some things, but again no issues.
As usual, a perfect update with a whole lot of nothing happening.
We-the-People
Regular Member
My jury duty was cancelled, kind of figured it would be with it scheduled for Tues/Wns/Thurs of Thanksgiving week (yup Thursday).
Wednesday:
OC'd at New's and Smokes on Central in Medford Wns, never a problem there and none of hte employees there this time know me.
OC'd to the Soup restaurant near TinselTown but they were closed so walked with my GF over to Parkside Cafe and had lunch. No issues there but didn't expect any as that's were I talked with Mr. Pyles for 3 hours after his encounter with unlawful police force.
OC'd at the GF's house for TG dinner.
It's all good.
Wednesday:
OC'd at New's and Smokes on Central in Medford Wns, never a problem there and none of hte employees there this time know me.
OC'd to the Soup restaurant near TinselTown but they were closed so walked with my GF over to Parkside Cafe and had lunch. No issues there but didn't expect any as that's were I talked with Mr. Pyles for 3 hours after his encounter with unlawful police force.
OC'd at the GF's house for TG dinner.
It's all good.
01rednavigator
Regular Member
first open carry
I have been concealed carrying ford about two years and I have just recently got into open carry. Today was my second time open carrying and the longest of the the two (about 45 minutes) the first time I opened carried was when I got my oil changed at keizer ford early in the moring and no one noticed. Today I opened carried at the south Salem walmart and everything went great, I was nervous for the first five to ten minutes but after that I relaxed and felt comfortable! I got a few funny looks from a few of the wal mart staff but nothing was said. I was carrying my S&W M&P 45c in a Desantis osw holster.
I have been concealed carrying ford about two years and I have just recently got into open carry. Today was my second time open carrying and the longest of the the two (about 45 minutes) the first time I opened carried was when I got my oil changed at keizer ford early in the moring and no one noticed. Today I opened carried at the south Salem walmart and everything went great, I was nervous for the first five to ten minutes but after that I relaxed and felt comfortable! I got a few funny looks from a few of the wal mart staff but nothing was said. I was carrying my S&W M&P 45c in a Desantis osw holster.
Teddybearfrmhell
Regular Member
welcome to the forum
VW_Factor
Regular Member
Teddybearfrmhell
Regular Member
just OCd in sharis in central point..... no issues at all.
Good to see females representing KOliverian!
On Saturday I went to the library to get a book and two ladies were staring at me struggling to figure out why the checkout machine was not cooperating with me. I noticed them look at me and say something to the effect of, "He has a gun on!" One of the ladies stood up and walked over to me as I was finally getting somewhere with the checkout machine and we had the following conversation (or something similar, it's been a week):
Her: Is that a gun?
Me: <I look down at it> Yup.
Her: What kind is it?
Me: A Glock 22.
Her: Why do you have a gun in the library?
Me: I carry my gun everywhere to remind people that they have the right to do so.
Her: <slightly snarky> Well, it is the west.
Me: Would you like some information on it?
Her: <kind of taken aback at the thought> Do I want information on carrying guns? No thanks. Do you participate in demonstrations or exercise any of your other rights too?
Me: I've held political signs and handed out flyers for Ron Paul before.
Can't really remember how the other bits worked out, but she mentioned how one of her friends had moved someplace where people had rifles in their trucks and her friend didn't like it so she moved. After we finished talking and I bid her farewell her friend asked if it was loaded and I was kind of confused but answered that it was. She seemed slightly put off by this but didn't comment further. Overall I got the impression that neither was thrilled with the idea, but the lady that I spoke with was amiable enough.
Other than that there hasn't been anything interesting happening. Walking around, going to dinner, same as usual.
On Saturday I went to the library to get a book and two ladies were staring at me struggling to figure out why the checkout machine was not cooperating with me. I noticed them look at me and say something to the effect of, "He has a gun on!" One of the ladies stood up and walked over to me as I was finally getting somewhere with the checkout machine and we had the following conversation (or something similar, it's been a week):
Her: Is that a gun?
Me: <I look down at it> Yup.
Her: What kind is it?
Me: A Glock 22.
Her: Why do you have a gun in the library?
Me: I carry my gun everywhere to remind people that they have the right to do so.
Her: <slightly snarky> Well, it is the west.
Me: Would you like some information on it?
Her: <kind of taken aback at the thought> Do I want information on carrying guns? No thanks. Do you participate in demonstrations or exercise any of your other rights too?
Me: I've held political signs and handed out flyers for Ron Paul before.
Can't really remember how the other bits worked out, but she mentioned how one of her friends had moved someplace where people had rifles in their trucks and her friend didn't like it so she moved. After we finished talking and I bid her farewell her friend asked if it was loaded and I was kind of confused but answered that it was. She seemed slightly put off by this but didn't comment further. Overall I got the impression that neither was thrilled with the idea, but the lady that I spoke with was amiable enough.
Other than that there hasn't been anything interesting happening. Walking around, going to dinner, same as usual.
We-the-People
Regular Member
Medford Illegal Detainment/Seizure & released
MEDFORD
One of our OCDO members was illegally detained (and released) today while OC'ing, just a short time ago so details are sketchy at this time. It appears that the MPD alleges it was responding to a MWAG call and detained the lawful Open Carrier stating something along the lines of "I can do a Terry stop and ID you". The officer also siezed (and later returned) the carriers property (weapons).
There are witnesses and knowing the carrier, I'm sure there will be audio and video of the incident.
MEDFORD
One of our OCDO members was illegally detained (and released) today while OC'ing, just a short time ago so details are sketchy at this time. It appears that the MPD alleges it was responding to a MWAG call and detained the lawful Open Carrier stating something along the lines of "I can do a Terry stop and ID you". The officer also siezed (and later returned) the carriers property (weapons).
There are witnesses and knowing the carrier, I'm sure there will be audio and video of the incident.
VW_Factor
Regular Member
Looking forward to this information.
Looks like it was Warren.
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Looks like he was unlawfully detained alright. The officer's sergeant was on the scene the entire time and he allowed it to happen. I thought Medford had figured out how Terry stops work by now. Sigh...frustrating to see people unable to be properly trained on very basic things.
Things Warren did right: Cooperated while expressing that he didn't consent to anything, not giving ID, asking good questions (such as asking for ordinances requiring ID or making carrying of a weapon RAS). Getting it all on video with good audio.
Things Warren could have done better: Assert your right to remain silent after the officer says he is detaining you. When the sergeant said you weren't being detained you should have immediately asked for your property back so you could be on your way. You should have asked for business cards from both of the officers at the end of the encounter.
I'd love to see what police training is like for so many to forget everything they're taught about Terry as soon as they see a firearm. They must have them singing songs about how bad citizens with guns are or something. From my public record requests that I've done on Corvallis PD, they were specifically trained on Terry and Florida v. J.L. (but the holding which says there is no gun exception to the fourth amendment wasn't addressed). They were also given a scenario question about a caller reporting a man with a handgun and were asked to say what they'd do in that situation. You'd think training like that would be enough to not cause officers to subject themselves to civil lawsuits where qualified immunity would not be available.
---
Looks like he was unlawfully detained alright. The officer's sergeant was on the scene the entire time and he allowed it to happen. I thought Medford had figured out how Terry stops work by now. Sigh...frustrating to see people unable to be properly trained on very basic things.
Things Warren did right: Cooperated while expressing that he didn't consent to anything, not giving ID, asking good questions (such as asking for ordinances requiring ID or making carrying of a weapon RAS). Getting it all on video with good audio.
Things Warren could have done better: Assert your right to remain silent after the officer says he is detaining you. When the sergeant said you weren't being detained you should have immediately asked for your property back so you could be on your way. You should have asked for business cards from both of the officers at the end of the encounter.
I'd love to see what police training is like for so many to forget everything they're taught about Terry as soon as they see a firearm. They must have them singing songs about how bad citizens with guns are or something. From my public record requests that I've done on Corvallis PD, they were specifically trained on Terry and Florida v. J.L. (but the holding which says there is no gun exception to the fourth amendment wasn't addressed). They were also given a scenario question about a caller reporting a man with a handgun and were asked to say what they'd do in that situation. You'd think training like that would be enough to not cause officers to subject themselves to civil lawsuits where qualified immunity would not be available.
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We-the-People
Regular Member
Okay here's the link to the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1UkfirtoDQ&list=UULn99vcRkhJkVOq7FDPV3kw&feature=plcp
VERY DEFINITELY an unlawful detainment and seizure of property without Reasonable Articulable Suspicion.
The MPD screwed it up in several ways and they are on audio and video doing it. These are NOT direct quotes.
1) We have the right to ID you when you are carrying a gun
2) We take firearms away from people we talk to
3) One officer says "you're being detained" the other says "you're not being detained"
4) "when we respond...to calls for service we like to identify..."
5) "I'm going to make sure you don't have any warrants for your arrest and we do that on every person we contact on a call for service"
6) We have to make contact with you because we had a citizen call"
7) "Were going to uphold what they requested us to do"
8) "You are bordering on disorderly conduct"
9) after saying that the citizen was NOT being detained (while standing between him and his property (firearms) the second officer then says "keep your hands out of your pockets while we're talking to you"
Like the individual or not, agree with his methods or not, he was LAWFULLY CARRYING and was UNLAWFULLY DETAINED. Just like you could be.
VERY DEFINITELY an unlawful detainment and seizure of property without Reasonable Articulable Suspicion.
The MPD screwed it up in several ways and they are on audio and video doing it. These are NOT direct quotes.
1) We have the right to ID you when you are carrying a gun
2) We take firearms away from people we talk to
3) One officer says "you're being detained" the other says "you're not being detained"
4) "when we respond...to calls for service we like to identify..."
5) "I'm going to make sure you don't have any warrants for your arrest and we do that on every person we contact on a call for service"
6) We have to make contact with you because we had a citizen call"
7) "Were going to uphold what they requested us to do"
8) "You are bordering on disorderly conduct"
9) after saying that the citizen was NOT being detained (while standing between him and his property (firearms) the second officer then says "keep your hands out of your pockets while we're talking to you"
Like the individual or not, agree with his methods or not, he was LAWFULLY CARRYING and was UNLAWFULLY DETAINED. Just like you could be.
BadMoon Risin68
Regular Member
I think you are absolutely correct. I have been following Warren for a little now and yes I think it could have been handled differently. I know a few police officers good people, but they are human too, they make mistakes. Even though they had made the mistake, it is still up to people like us to give a good name to the open carry group. Even if you are illegally detained it is important to maintain your temper, police get edgy when you start yelling at them, even though you weren't doing anything wrong. The fact that you are not doing anything wrong should give you even more reason to remain calm. It has been a big improvement from his first videos however.
Just stumbled upon this video where Medford PD (of all the agencies in Oregon...) is harassing an open carrier. I don't know if the open carrier is on this forum.
Warren Drouin
Regular Member
@bigtoa416 That would be David and he has an account on opencarry.org
We-the-People
Regular Member
Yup, and his incident is another of the documented abuses of the 4th amendmendment perpetrated by MPD against law abiding citizens exercising their 2nd amendment rights.
Warren is NOT the only one being harassed. I have audio and/or video of at least three different individuals being harassed by MPD. Warren just happens to also OCa long gun, the others were only carrying a holstered pistol, one of which was concealed. YES a concealed carrier was harassed and unlawfully detained. It's not just Warren and his rifle that they don't like....as evidenced by their treatment of him at MPD HQ on two separate occasions when he was carrying only a holstered sidearm.
You'd think we were in Portland or Taxifornia