Thoughts on helping to normalize open carry

[WalkingWolf]

I'm giving you my opinion about what Sen. Estes said, not a direct quote. I don't believe that violates site rules.

Your interpretation is extremely affected by your bias. And you did not originally state it as a opinion you posted as fact to what he said.

Now cough up!

 

[WalkingWolf]

I'm working to get a licensed OC bill

This explains his opinion, and his agenda. If he would have state he was working for OC Bill, and left out unlicensed or licensed he may have been more credible. He has destroyed his credibility by continually pushing for licensing of rights. The only question is why, and not the lame excuse of the legislatures say so, that is lame, very very lame.

 

[SA-TX]

Then provide us with the statement that you are interpreting so that we can decide for ourselves whether or not your interpretation is valid? Or are you just going to point us to a, what, 8 and 1/2 hour hearing and say "go find it"

I want people to make up their own minds. Listen to what Sen. Estes says and determine whether he is a friend or a foe. I seem to recall a sentence by him asking people "not to go too far" or something similar. I never got specific because I didn't have a direct quote handy. I still don't. My opinion is my opinion. What matters is for others to watch and form theirs.

SA-TX

 

[WalkingWolf]

I want people to make up their own minds. Listen to what Sen. Estes says and determine whether he is a friend or a foe. I seem to recall a sentence by him asking people "not to go too far" or something similar. I never got specific because I didn't have a direct quote handy. I still don't. My opinion is my opinion. What matters is for others to watch and form theirs.

SA-TX

So you expect us to go through every statement that has been made to find the ONE quote you claim? Bovine Scatology, we can't make up our own minds unless YOU provide the cite for us to examine it.

 

[SA-TX]

I'm working to get a licensed OC bill

This explains his opinion, and his agenda. If he would have state he was working for OC Bill, and left out unlicensed or licensed he may have been more credible. He has destroyed his credibility by continually pushing for licensing of rights. The only question is why, and not the lame excuse of the legislatures say so, that is lame, very very lame.

I'm pushing for what I deem possible at the present time. I've said many times that I'm for constitutional carry. The question I how, practically speaking, to get there. I'd love to be wrong and get there sooner but I think it is going to take several steps.

No one would be happier than me if a court declared Texas' prohibition against handgun carry unconstitutional thereby giving us instant unlicensed open carry or constitutional carry.

You and I agree about the correct scope of our rights: no permission necessary. What I don't see is how you propose to get us there from here. I'm not content protest & point out how our rights are being infringed. The real fight takes place in the Legislature or in the courts. I've chosen the former forum. Based on another post here about a lawsuit, another member has chosen the latter. That's great! Attack the problem on all fronts.

SA-TX

 

[stealthyeliminator]

I want people to make up their own minds. Listen to what Sen. Estes says and determine whether he is a friend or a foe. I seem to recall a sentence by him asking people "not to go too far" or something similar. I never got specific because I didn't have a direct quote handy. I still don't. My opinion is my opinion. What matters is for others to watch and form theirs.

SA-TX

Like I said, the hearing video is 8 and 1/2 hours long. Not all of it is on the topic of OC, but even cutting out what is not, you're looking at a half a day just to try and find some statement in a haystack. Estes was friendly at the hearing, whether it was a reflection of his views on the issue or not, I don't know. He expressed sincere sympathy toward Grisham for the arrest and prosecution that he was subjected to, which was a long gun OC incident.

 

[SA-TX]

So you expect us to go through every statement that has been made to find the ONE quote you claim? Bovine Scatology, we can't make up our own minds unless YOU provide the cite for us to examine it.

Don't look for just that. Listen to the hearing, to the witnesses, to the senators on the panel. Of the 3 senators that I recall speaking & asking questions, 2 were against OC! Only the chairman, in my opinion, was supportive. You need to see how much minds need to be changed at the statehouse if the law is going to change.

SA-TX

 

[stealthyeliminator]

Don't look for just that. Listen to the hearing, to the witnesses, to the senators on the panel. Of the 3 senators that I recall speaking & asking questions, 2 were against OC! Only the chairman, in my opinion, was supportive. You need to see how much minds need to be changed at the statehouse if the law is going to change.

SA-TX

They did not say they opposed OC. They asked questions which seemed to express concern. Their concerns were addressed in the responses by the witnesses. Again, you're putting words in their mouths. Like I said, I've already watched the hearing, and what I recall is that it was almost entirely positive. The opposing testimonies were few, and basically all of them were atrocious.

 

[SA-TX]

They did not say they opposed OC. They asked questions which seemed to express concern. Their concerns were addressed in the responses by the witnesses. Again, you're putting words in their mouths. Like I said, I've already watched the hearing, and what I recall is that it was almost entirely positive. The opposing testimonies were few, and basically all of them were atrocious.

I'll stand by my statement that, in my opinion, only the chairman was supportive. In the Senate, due to the blocker bill, only a small # of senators can prevent the consideration of a bill. At least 1 said he's a CHL holder & doesn't understand why OC is useful.

Speaking of CHLers, you'd think that they would be in heavily in favor of licensed OC. My years of reading and posting on TexasCHLForum tell me that group has mixed feelings on the topic. What this means to me is that within the pro-2A community you don't have solidarity on the issue. Thus our clout is diminished making even a licensed OC bill more difficult to pass.

SA-TX

 

[WalkingWolf]

TSRA opposes OC, no surprise that members from that organization try to shift the blame to others.

 

[Bikenut]

I'm pushing for what I deem possible at the present time. I've said many times that I'm for constitutional carry. The question I how, practically speaking, to get there. I'd love to be wrong and get there sooner but I think it is going to take several steps.

No one would be happier than me if a court declared Texas' prohibition against handgun carry unconstitutional thereby giving us instant unlicensed open carry or constitutional carry.

You and I agree about the correct scope of our rights: no permission necessary. What I don't see is how you propose to get us there from here. I'm not content protest & point out how our rights are being infringed. The real fight takes place in the Legislature or in the courts. I've chosen the former forum. Based on another post here about a lawsuit, another member has chosen the latter. That's great! Attack the problem on all fronts.

SA-TX

In my opinion...

Any pro gun rights person or organization that pushes for legislation that LICENSES a right isn't understanding that they are pushing for the exact thing the legislature wants to always have... control over the ability to exercise a right. In short... they are playing right into the hands of the anti rights folks. And hoping to make some bit of headway by gaining OC as long as it is licensed ISN'T GAINING THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS but is merely putting OC in the very same category as CC... where one must kiss the arse of authority to be "allowed" to have the privilege of bearing arms.

If the goal is unfettered OC then go for the goal without settling for half measures. Because once that licensing structure is put in place there will be hell to pay to get it thrown out. Think about Obamacare... once it's in it is impossible to get it out.

 

[SA-TX]

TSRA opposes OC, no surprise that members from that organization try to shift the blame to others.

Cite please on opposing OC and shifting blame. Alice Trip of TSRA testified at the hearing IN FAVOR of licensed OC.

 

[HPmatt]

Please let me know the cause for that optimism? I agree Patrick is an improvement but why do you think Straus won't be Speaker?

Patrick was questioning Dewhurst and House Lship wisdom in why were R 's giving Hse cmte chmships to Dems - elections have consequences.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[WalkingWolf]

Cite please on opposing OC and shifting blame. Alice Trip of TSRA testified at the hearing IN FAVOR of licensed OC.

YOU oppose OC, just like your opinion that is mine, YOU admitted to being a member of TSRA, and you have said licensed OC at least 4 or 5 times, knowing full well that licensed OC will end the right to OC without a license.

YOU cite Alice Trip testified in favor of UNLICENSED OC!

Also post the financial statement of TSRA major contributors!

I find it funny that a TSRA member fudges and refuses to provide cites for statements is now demanding cites on opinions.

 

[stealthyeliminator]

I'll stand by my statement that, in my opinion, only the chairman was supportive. In the Senate, due to the blocker bill, only a small # of senators can prevent the consideration of a bill. At least 1 said he's a CHL holder & doesn't understand why OC is useful.

Speaking of CHLers, you'd think that they would be in heavily in favor of licensed OC. My years of reading and posting on TexasCHLForum tell me that group has mixed feelings on the topic. What this means to me is that within the pro-2A community you don't have solidarity on the issue. Thus our clout is diminished making even a licensed OC bill more difficult to pass.

SA-TX

There is no CC vs. OC, there is liberty and freedom vs. privilege, status, and control. Some CC folks fall into both categories, and so, the correct statement would be that some CC holders are not part of the pro-2A community. There are many members of OCT, for instance, who hold a CHL, including myself. To question why OC is useful is to not look at issues from the perspective of liberty, which is a problem. Address the true problem to fix the issue.

In my opinion, the sentiments of the NRA guy and the TSRA lady suggest that their ultimate agenda is not liberty, and in this particular case in the incarnation of open carry, but simply that their agenda and the agenda of open carry have aligned as a result of efforts not their own.

I'd be curious to know if the TSRA has ever lobbied for unlicensed concealed carry or tried to have a bill put forth to that effect. That could be another pretty sure tell.

 

[SA-TX]

YOU oppose OC, just like your opinion that is mine, YOU admitted to being a member of TSRA, and you have said licensed OC at least 4 or 5 times, knowing full well that licensed OC will end the right to OC without a license.

YOU cite Alice Trip testified in favor of UNLICENSED OC!

Also post the financial statement of TSRA major contributors!

I find it funny that a TSRA member fudges and refuses to provide cites for statements is now demanding cites on opinions.

The statement that "TSRA opposes OC!" didn't seem qualified as to indicate it was your opinion. I've addressed whether I think TSRA would EVER favor licensing long gun carry and whether the Texas Constitution permits such I the other thread.

Think I oppose OC if you desire but I've said many times I favor Constitutional Carry just like you D. The difference, in my opinion, is that I think we have to get there through incremental change. I still don't understand how you think we will get there.

SA-TX

 

[WalkingWolf]

The statement that "TSRA opposes OC!" didn't seem qualified as to indicate it was your opinion. I've addressed whether I think TSRA would EVER favor licensing long gun carry and whether the Texas Constitution permits such I the other thread.

Think I oppose OC if you desire but I've said many times I favor Constitutional Carry just like you D. The difference, in my opinion, is that I think we have to get there through incremental change. I still don't understand how you think we will get there.

SA-TX

I made the same type statement you did! Now are you going to admit that you tried to bamboozle us?

BTW there is no license in constitutional carry...

 

[SA-TX]

I made the same type statement you did! Now are you going to admit that you tried to bamboozle us?

BTW there is no license in constitutional carry...

No on bamboozle and I know constitutional carry requires no license. Did I goof somewhere and say otherwise?

I've discussed my plan of incremental improvement and how that has a track record of legislative success. Let's discuss yours. If you have a realistic chance of getting unlicensed OC or constitutional carry through the legislature or the courts by fall 2015 I want to hear about it? We've had lots of talk on this forum and others for years and yet not a single unlicensed OC bill even introduced? That is my definition of failure. Let's get what we can now and then keep coming back for more.

SA-TX

 

[WalkingWolf]

No on bamboozle and I know constitutional carry requires no license. Did I goof somewhere and say otherwise?

I've discussed my plan of incremental improvement and how that has a track record of legislative success. Let's discuss yours. If you have a realistic chance of getting unlicensed OC or constitutional carry through the legislature or the courts by fall 2015 I want to hear about it? We've had lots of talk on this forum and others for years and yet not a single unlicensed OC bill even introduced? That is my definition of failure. Let's get what we can now and then keep coming back for more.

SA-TX

You either support rights or you don't, there are no excuses. So far you do not!

BTW OCT has a realistic plan, and it IS working, even though you do not like it.

 

[SA-TX]

You either support rights or you don't, there are no excuses. So far you do not!

BTW OCT has a realistic plan, and it IS working, even though you do not like it.

I hope OCT's plan - whatever it is - does work. If it doesn't I want licensed OC. You are still confusing whether or not I support constutional carry - I do - with supporting certain tactics which, in my opinion, don't engender the support we'll need in the Legislature. A fact none us can deny is that we'll if anything works within 1 year (at the conclusion of the '15 legislative session. Until then, we will have to agree to disagree.

SA-TX