TN Open Carry Report

[SovereignAxe]

I had my most interesting OC encounter yet, recently. I was shopping at Old Navy a couple days ago (their workout clothes are not quite as good, but way cheaper than Under Armor) and a guy comes up by me and asks "Is that a pistol!?" I say yes it is. He asks what kind and I tell him Walther P99. He asks if he can see it and I say "sure, but I can take it out of the holster in the store" and turn strong side towards him (keeping several feet of distance, of course).

Immediately after I finish that last sentence he says to me something like, "oh no, I couldn't, I'm a convicted felon."

I'm almost speechless for a moment and the only thing that comes to mind is something like, "oh, well I'm sorry about that." And that was pretty much it. He walked away a moment later. I have it all on my voice recorder, but it'd been recording for nearly an hour before this, so I haven't had time to scan for it yet.

I'm guessing whatever he did wasn't that serious if he's as young as he is and out walking around in public instead of in prison, so I feel kinda sorry that a citizen lost his rights, but at the same time, that encounter still put me from condition yellow to orange for a few minutes. It also got me thinking about how many convicted felons there probably are around us...not necessarily a threat, but good cause to stay in condition yellow whenever in public.

 

[SovereignAxe]

I had an interesting observation the other day. I accompanied my wife to the Washington Co. court house so that she could renew her vehicle registration. I open carried, like I have the past two times there. This day we went in through a side entrance, and then left out the front entrance. As we were walking out the door she says to me, "you know you have your gun on, right?" I said yep, I'm fine as long as I don't go into a court room. At that exact moment we walk by a big red sign that I've never noticed before, a few feet to the left of the door, with a list of things you can't do or bring into the building, one of which is firearms.

Just so I'm clear, preemption does not include govermnet buildings. Meaning: any government building is free to prohibit weapons. However, they are still required to properly post at all public entrances. Is that correct?

I walked in on the right side entrance, walked out through the main entrance out front, which is where the sign was-not on the door-and walked around the front to the left and then rear of the building. No other entrance is posted, so they're definitely not correctly posted as required by law. I find it interesting that I've walked in there at least twice open carrying, including walking by the same sherrif's deputy both times, and no one has noticed and/or said anything to me about it.

 

[Nascar24Glock]

I had an interesting observation the other day. I accompanied my wife to the Washington Co. court house so that she could renew her vehicle registration. I open carried, like I have the past two times there. This day we went in through a side entrance, and then left out the front entrance. As we were walking out the door she says to me, "you know you have your gun on, right?" I said yep, I'm fine as long as I don't go into a court room. At that exact moment we walk by a big red sign that I've never noticed before, a few feet to the left of the door, with a list of things you can't do or bring into the building, one of which is firearms.

Just so I'm clear, preemption does not include govermnet buildings. Meaning: any government building is free to prohibit weapons. However, they are still required to properly post at all public entrances. Is that correct?

I walked in on the right side entrance, walked out through the main entrance out front, which is where the sign was-not on the door-and walked around the front to the left and then rear of the building. No other entrance is posted, so they're definitely not correctly posted as required by law. I find it interesting that I've walked in there at least twice open carrying, including walking by the same sherrif's deputy both times, and no one has noticed and/or said anything to me about it.

I've noticed that this courthouse is posted too (not properly, as you said). According to a previous post by FallGuy, guns are only outright prohibited in the actual courtrooms (or, as I'm sure a cop would argue, past the metal detectors). However, this courthouse apparently decided that they would ban guns from the whole building while they're at it (the Kingsport courthouse doesn't have this problem, as you have to go through the metal detectors immediately upon entering the door).

By the way, if you want to avoid the court house next time for vehicle registrations, I think they have an office over near Home Depot and Lowes where you can renew registrations (at least, they did as of a few months ago).

Oh, and P.S.: If I haven't said it already, congrats on your recent marriage! It will be interesting to see if she eventually joins the ranks of open carriers.

 

[SovereignAxe]

I've noticed that this courthouse is posted too (not properly, as you said). According to a previous post by FallGuy, guns are only outright prohibited in the actual courtrooms (or, as I'm sure a cop would argue, past the metal detectors). However, this courthouse apparently decided that they would ban guns from the whole building while they're at it (the Kingsport courthouse doesn't have this problem, as you have to go through the metal detectors immediately upon entering the door).

By the way, if you want to avoid the court house next time for vehicle registrations, I think they have an office over near Home Depot and Lowes where you can renew registrations (at least, they did as of a few months ago).

Oh, and P.S.: If I haven't said it already, congrats on your recent marriage! It will be interesting to see if she eventually joins the ranks of open carriers.

Yeah, I knew about the other place to renew, but didn't find out where it was until after our trip (and was too lazy to look it up). We were already going to be in that area (made a trip to that Wal-Mart and Happy Hour), so we decided to just go the extra couple of miles to Jonesboro. Which was a dumb mistake, because I forgot they have pretty much shut down all of Main St. for construction.

Also, thank you! I don't think she'll be an open carrier, but she is interested in getting her permit and carrying. Funds are tight right now (the wedding put us a little behind), so it's still a ways off.

 

[Nascar24Glock]

Yeah, I knew about the other place to renew, but didn't find out where it was until after our trip (and was too lazy to look it up). We were already going to be in that area (made a trip to that Wal-Mart and Happy Hour), so we decided to just go the extra couple of miles to Jonesboro. Which was a dumb mistake, because I forgot they have pretty much shut down all of Main St. for construction.

Also, thank you! I don't think she'll be an open carrier, but she is interested in getting her permit and carrying. Funds are tight right now (the wedding put us a little behind), so it's still a ways off.

And doesn't it just rub salt in the wound that (1) Tennessee's permit fee per year of validity is one of the highest in the country, and (2) if she were in ANY of our neighboring states, she could do some level of carrying right now for $0 (on-foot OC in MO, KY, VA, NC, or AL; varying kinds of car carry in MS, AR, MO, KY, VA, NC, or GA)?

We need to get our legislators to work on a Constitutional Carry bill next year (or, short of that, a car carry and on-foot OC bill).

 

[SovereignAxe]

And doesn't it just rub salt in the wound that (1) Tennessee's permit fee per year of validity is one of the highest in the country, and (2) if she were in ANY of our neighboring states, she could do some level of carrying right now for $0 (on-foot OC in MO, KY, VA, NC, or AL; varying kinds of car carry in MS, AR, MO, KY, VA, NC, or GA)?

We need to get our legislators to work on a Constitutional Carry bill next year (or, short of that, a car carry and on-foot OC bill).

Yes it does. I have a high school friend running for state rep. If he wins he and I are going to have a little chat about our gun laws. Hell, I might even have a little chat with him before the election.

Besides this post, any talking points I should bring his way?

 

[pfries]

We have several issues within the laws that need to be addressed,
much of which would simply be to clarify the contradictions and grey areas in many of the codes.
Constitutional carry would be great, open carry without a permit would be a start,
so would allowing someone to carry in their car as the castle doctrine extends to your vehicle as it is written.
The “must show your Permit on demand” needs work as it leaves the door open to abuse because it has no RAS/PC prerequisite.
Allowing cities to opt out of park carry and post buildings needs to be challenged,
how does a LAC carrying a gun in those places meet the standards set forth in our constitution “ with a view to prevent crime”?
Any ways the list goes on, and on, and on.

 

[Q-Tip]

OC'd in Walmart and Wendy's today. No issues and no googly eyes that I'm aware of.

Also OC'd when proposing to my girlfriend a few days ago. Also no strange looks, except from a few squirrels.

Oh yeah, she said yes :banana:

 

[pfries]

Glad to hear it on both parts, and congratulations on the engagement.

 

[gpowell2]

Hey guys!! I just recently got out of the Navy after serving five years. I came home to hendersonville and the first thing i did was purshase a SIG P250 .40 and my HCP. I just want to verify everywhere that I can or can not OC, as I have not purchased a conceal holster. Also what is the purpose in the voice recorder that I keeo reading about? never the less I will be purchasing one today.

Also here is my first encounter with law enforcement OCing. Happened last night at the local Regal theatre. was going to see taken 2. I purchase my ticket and walk in. as im waiting in the concession line i notice the pd on duty come down and start moving toward me. i just keep my head forward and act like i dont notice him. he came up behind me grabbed my arm and asked me if i had my carry permit. i said i did and he said ok do you know it's posted here? i stated i looked for sign but didnt see one. told him i just gout out and just got my license. he thanked me for my service and politely asked me to return my weapon to my car which i obliged. went in and watched the movie ( which was great by the way). as we were leaving i look next to the EXIT, and sure enough there it is. the only gunbuster sign on the entire building next to the EXIT sign. Not a bad experience for my first encounter with law enforcement on the matter. the officer was very polite and very thankful for my service and stated multiple times he had absolutely no problem with me OCing but it was posted so I politely took my weapon back to my car. But I am actively now boycotting all theatre chains that do not allow HCP.

 

[skidmark]

So what would you have considered a "bad" experience?

Were you so threatening-looking tha he had to sneak up behind you and grab your arm so you could not draw and shoot him full of holes?

If the issue was that the place was posted, nobody cares if he does or does not personally have a problem with OCing - but I'll bet you that he really does. I'll bet he's scared out of his senses.

If the place is posted then all he should have done is go up to you and inform you of that fact. He could also offer the suggestion that you might go back to your car and leave it there to be stolen, or he could also offer the suggestion that since it would be dangerous for you to leave it in your car you should ask for a refund and return some time when you were not carrying.

It's things like this that make so many of us carry digital voice recorders, that we turn on when we leave the house and keep running till we return home at the end of the day. Documenting even the slightest excesses and outrages keeps things from winding up as he said/she said circuses. When the cop grabbed your arm you could say something to the effect of "Hey, take your hands off me! Are you arresting me?" - because by his laying hands on you he was in fact arresting you.

Thank you for your service, and I'm sorry that one of your first experiences was to have all that time and effort destroyed by some cop. You just spent five years protecting and defending the Constitution, and one of the first things that happens to you is that your Constitutional rights get violated*. Sure makes a person stop and think if all that time was worth it, doesn't it?

stay safe.

* It's not the big, glaring violations of Constitutional rights that are going to end up putting us in some form of chains with no rights to fall back on. It's the "little things" that some minion of the State gets away with to the point that they begin assuming they can and will always get away with it. How long, for instance, has it taken for serious push back against TSA? Their violations were never so huge as to cause a general sense of outrage, but now folks who have no intention of ever flying are writing their Representatives/Senators with demands that the violations stop NOW! How many times will ATF agents try to get FFLs to hand over 4473 forms to be taken somewhere and copied? How many times will LEOs treat LACs (Law Abiding Citizens) as if they were VCAs (Violent Criminal Actors) in the act of committing some violent crime just because the LAC was OCing?

stay safe.

 

[Grapeshot]

Welcome home and to OCDO gpowell2.

Pay heed to Skidmark's words. The laying on of hands was totally wrong and uncalled for - a great example of why we carry digital recorders always turned on and running.

 

[pfries]

Skid and GS have it spot on,
one thing I have noticed here in TN is many of the places that are posted are not to the letter of the law.
Generaly I avoid such places as to me, once it is known the intent is clear.

39-17-1359. Prohibition at certain meetings -- Posting notice.

(a) (1) An individual, corporation, business entity or local, state or federal government entity or agent thereof is authorized to prohibit the possession of weapons by any person who
is at a meeting conducted by, or on property owned, operated, or managed or under the control of the individual, corporation, business entity or government entity.

(2) The prohibition in subdivision (a)(1) shall apply to any person who is authorized to carry a firearm by authority of § 39-17-1351.

(b) (1) Notice of the prohibition permitted by subsection (a) shall be accomplished by displaying one (1) or both of the notices described in subdivision (b)(3)
in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the property, building, or portion of the property or building where weapon possession is prohibited.
Either form of notice used shall be of a size that is plainly visible to the average person entering the building, property, or portion of the building or property, posted.

(2) The notice required by this section shall be in English, but a duplicate notice may also be posted in any language used by patrons,
customers or persons who frequent the place where weapon possession is prohibited.

(3) (A) If a sign is used as the method of posting, it shall contain language substantially similar to the following:

AS AUTHORIZED BY T.C.A. § 39-17-1359, POSSESSION OF A WEAPON ON POSTED PROPERTY OR IN A POSTED BUILDING IS PROHIBITED AND IS A CRIMINAL OFFENSE.

(B) As used in this section, "language substantially similar to" means the sign contains language plainly stating that:

(i) The property is posted under authority of Tennessee law;

(ii) Weapons or firearms are prohibited on the property, in the building, or on the portion of the property or building that is posted; and

(iii) Possessing a weapon in an area that has been posted is a criminal offense.

(C) A building, property or a portion of a building or property, shall be considered properly posted in accordance with this section if
one (1) or both of the following is displayed in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the property, building,
or portion of the property or building where weapon possession is prohibited:

(i) The international circle and slash symbolizing the prohibition of the item within the circle; or

(ii) The posting sign described in this subdivision (b)(3).

(c) (1) It is an offense to possess a weapon in a building or on property that is properly posted in accordance with this section.

(2) Possession of a weapon on posted property in violation of this section is a Class B misdemeanor punishable by fine only of five hundred dollars ($500).

(d) Nothing in this section shall be construed to alter, reduce or eliminate any civil or criminal liability that a property owner or manager may have for injuries arising on their property.

(e) The provisions of this section shall not apply to title 70 regarding wildlife laws, rules and regulations.

(f) This section shall not apply to the grounds of any public park, natural area, historic park, nature trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway or
other similar public place that is owned or operated by the state, a county, a municipality or instrumentality thereof.
The carrying of firearms in those areas shall be governed by § 39-17-1311.

Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1359

 

[SovereignAxe]

I've had two encounters in the last couple of days. A couple nights ago I went to Little Ceasars and had a guy ask me if that gun comes with a badge or a permit. I laughed and said permit. He said he was going to get his soon. I just told him to be prepared to have the state from you of $110. We then chit chatted for a minute or so about the permit system while we waited on our pizzas (the hot and readies weren't ready. But they were hot!)

Today I was at Chik-Fil-A in Elizabethton and the guy that gave me a refill asked me what I was carrying. He said it was nice and I told him I get nothing but compliments on it, and told him to have a good day.

 

[SovereignAxe]

So I would say that the Johnson City open carry meet was a mild success-aside from a legal trampling of the 4th Amendment.

Nascar24Glock, pfries, pfries' friend, myself, and my wife met up at Crazy Tamato on Princeton Rd last night for an open carry meet. I arrived about 5 minutes late, and, not noticing anyone open carrying (the sun was setting and in my face to the west, so I couldn't see anyone very well in that direction), I was seated at the east end of the patio. Little did I know that the whole group (minus me and my wife who'd arrive later), were seated at the very western corner-the sun setting right over their heads and in my face.

And I guess I'm a pretty non-descript fellow. This particular night I was wearing dark blue jeans and a dark blue ETSU hoodie (it was my day off, I didn't feel like dressing nice). My black P99 was carried in a matching black Serpa, so I guess it blended into my wardrobe.

Anyway, I peruse the menu, thinking I'm killing time for the others to arrive when, after about 10 minutes pass, I notice three JCPD officers surrounding the fellas at that western-most table. It was at that precise moment that I knew who was seated at that table. Well, at this point I think to myself, this can go one of three ways: the officers say their piece, ask their questions, see nothing illegal is going on and leave; colorful words start flying and someone gets arrested; or they get asked to leave by management via the cops. My plan was that if they left I'd tell my waitress that my friends canceled on me and slip right on out, and maybe leave her a couple bucks for her time. If they leave them alone, tell my waitress that I'd like to join the gentlemen at the far corner of the room.

Well, it just so happens that after about 10 or 15 minutes of the JCPD wasting some LACs' time, and using TN state law to trample the constitituion (by asking for Nascar's and pfries' HCPs), they left! So I sauntered over to their table and joined the party and had an excellent meal with great service-as always.

Unfortunately I was the only one in the party with a voice recorder running, and was positioned way too far away from the group at the time of the questioning to pick up anything from their conversation, so pfries and Nascar24Glock will have to fill you in on those details.

 

[pfries]

We will get to the fill in.

After I got out to the car post dinner and could plug in for power I dictated the events

I will try to transcribe this weekend. I also should try and request the radio traffic and call of the "men with guns Drinking" episode…

I do have to say the company and food was good. I would like to see this develop into a regular thing and hopefully get more interest and larger turnouts.

Thanks to all who partook.

 

[Nascar24Glock]

Well, as everyone can see from the previous two posts by pfries and SovereignAxe, I can now scratch "get my first MWAG call" off my bucket list...

Basically, it went down like this. Me and pfries enter and meet up with his friend, who wasn't carrying but was drinking a beer. Apparently, someone connected that beer to me and pfries and, according to the officer that will shortly be introduced as officer 1, called in a "guys with guns drinking." Well, I was the first to notice the officers because I was looking behind me about every 15 seconds looking for SovereignAxe. I immediately thought "ok, either by coincidence they're here to eat; or they're here for us." Well, they were there for us. Three officers walk up, two male (officer 1 and officer 2) and one female (officer 3). Officer 1 orders us in a calm but firm tone "don't reach for anything." He then proceeds to tell us that someone called about some guys carrying and drinking. We then explained that the non-carrying friend was the one actually drinking. He then proceeds tell us that he is going to talk to the manager and see if it's ok if we stay there or if he wants us to leave. Me and pfries inform the officer that, if we're asked to leave, we'll leave. Eventually, officer 1 asks to see my permit and pfries' permit, which officer 2 receives and holds onto for about 5-10 minutes while he and officer 3 verify them. Meanwhile, officer 1 gives us a standard anti-OC lecture (the following will be slightly paraphrased; but the essence is there): "Everybody and their brother has a permit now. Even my wife has one. And, open carry is legal in Tennessee. But, it does make some people nervous; and most people carry concealed. And, if a bad guy comes in and sees you, you'll be the first to get shot. So, you might want to pull a shirt over it or something." Somewhere in that, he includes a story about a 21-year old who had gotten his permit for about six weeks and was open carrying in the Mall, which while being posted, is not posted properly (I think his point was: "it might be legal to do something; but, it's not necessarily wise to do it"). At this point, officer 1 goes to talk to the manager, while officer 2 and 3 continue to check our permits. I think their verification computer went down, because officer 1 eventually came back and asked officer 2 something like "are they good?", and officer 2 replied "I had to reboot it." At this point, officer 2 and 3 take out a pen and paper and (presumably) copy our permit info onto the paper. After doing this, they hand us our permits back and go on their merry way.

Unfortunately, SovereignAxe was too far away for his recorder to pick up the conversation, pfries' recorder's battery was dead, and, well, I didn't have a recorder. Let's just say I learned my lesson on that one...

 

[ppardue1]

I thought I might share a positive experience from tonight:

I went out for supper tonight. I dreaded it just a bit because I thought people would be on edge due to the shooting in CT. Supper passed uneventfully. From there I proceeded to Walmart. While there I was stopped multiple times by people thanking me for carrying. Now, it is not unusual for people to stop me, most want to know what kind of gun I am carrying, but tonight there were many more than usual. It gave me some hope that we, as gun rights activists (both concealed and open) are winning the war of public opinion.

 

[Nascar24Glock]

I thought I might share a positive experience from tonight:

I went out for supper tonight. I dreaded it just a bit because I thought people would be on edge due to the shooting in CT. Supper passed uneventfully. From there I proceeded to Walmart. While there I was stopped multiple times by people thanking me for carrying. Now, it is not unusual for people to stop me, most want to know what kind of gun I am carrying, but tonight there were many more than usual. It gave me some hope that we, as gun rights activists (both concealed and open) are winning the war of public opinion.

Sounds like a good experience.

Perhaps I just blend in too much. Besides some cops (see posts 195 through 197 in this thread), I have yet to have a single person ask me about my openly carried handgun. I do think someone noticed it the other day, however. I was at the Chick-Fil-A in Johnson City near Home Depot and Best Buy. I had turned weak-side toward the counter (strong-side, and carry-side, away from the counter) while reading my receipt. I heard some woman, about age 25 or 30, whisper the following to the man (presumably her husband) beside her: "OH MY GOD!!!" Out of my peripheral vision, I think she was looking in my direction. So, in all likelihood, she saw my gun and freaked out.

But, like I said, few people ever even notice I carry; and fewer still seem to care.

 

[Isaac James Anderson]

Opened carried to my dentist and no issues. Blackman Grove Dental in Murfreesboro. Friendly people and 2nd amendment supporters.

hey im in process of getting my gun carry permit do you know the best place here in murfreesboro to do the class and also do u pay for the class and the license?