Victim gives gun to woman who wanted to shoot him.....DUH!

[Verd]

Why in any way should we believe you when you say:

I'LL PUT IT UN BIG TEXT SO YOU WILL FINALLY READ IT. THEY WERE NOT DRY FIRING GUNS IN EACHOTHERS FACES.

When another member of these boards, someone with a high post count and much better behaved than you states the following:

Apparently the reason she thought the gun was not loaded was that they had all been drinking and "playing" with unloaded guns all night. Apparently they had been dry firing some revolvers at each other's heads all night, so she thought the gun was still unloaded.

 

[jaydaves]

I hate to be one of those guys who determine's someone's worth by their post count, but I am going to do it here simply because you are giving out details that was not in either story and were not in the recollection of events by another member here who has been here much longer than you and also claims kinship.



I am going to go with Dahwg's version of the events, based on post count and based on his ability to type in complete sentences without slang. Sorry, but I just got back from a teacher conference where I was told that my daughter needed speech thereapy because the issues she has with vocalizing her words make her sound less intelligent. It works with text as well.

Now, on to the rest of your post (since your story of the events are different from the stories and from Dahwg's):

The averge person has no clue about their rights and have no clue about gun safety. I, personally, grew up with every toy gun in the world available to me (or so it seemed). I also have three BB guns and a sling shot.. I used to run all over our land (6 acres) and the neighborhood with my BB guns and slingshot, shooting at everything and anything. My dad told stories of when he was a kid he and his friends used to have BB gun wars, wearing heavy jackets and using pump action BB guns to give them more penetrating power. He still has a number of BB's under his skin. I did the same with my friends as a result. The only time I fired a real gun was with my father, and it was only one shot with a 20g shotgun and 6 shots with a 45 colt revolver. This was at around 8 years old. Now, as a teenager, I was into alcohol and drugs and we often partied with a bonfire as well as a lake 20 feet away from us. We did all sorts of stupid **** with gasoline, luckily noone ever got seriously harmed. After parties, people would wake up in the middle of the lake on a raft! We were stupid teens, this is clear. But we never played with guns, even though they were available to us. However, if we had gotten into our heads to play with unloaded guns and dry firing them, I would have done it as well. If someone had handed me a gun to fire, in anger or not, at someone else it stands to reason that I would dry fire it as well without checking to see if it was unloaded.

The thing I am trying to convey here is that the average person has no clue about guns. The average person would be well within their rights to believe that a gun is not loaded if all the other guns used that evening were unloaded and dry firing or simple airsoft guns. And, now pay attention because this is the clincher here that the jury saw as well, the average person would never think that they would be handed a live gun after stating that they wanted to shoot someone.

Well I sat in the court room. Those people that your reading it off of... They sat next to me for about 1 hr of the trial before leaving each day. Go talk to the other kin and see what they say now. Today was the last day of trial. Closing statements nothing more. I sat in that courtroom for 4 days straight 10-5. I think I have a pretty good hold on the information. Obviously my opinion is biased but I not trying to convince you what went on. I came to respond to one person and everyone wanted to talk. Believe me, don't believe me, I could care less. I'm just saying from what you read or perceived was pretty incorrect compared to actuality. But that's publicity for you.

 

[jaydaves]

Why in any way should we believe you when you say:


When another member of these boards, someone with a high post count and much better behaved than you states the following:

First the only reason I joined was because I saw the original post. The only posts I have are with you guys in here. Second it wasn't a revolver that was being dry fired in her face. It was a CO2 airport gun black in color. They had 3 guns known and the only revolver was what she had. One CO2, one 9 mil semi-auto, another revolver 22. I saw the guns, o watched her testimony on video, no she didn't testify, yes the defense had no one testify. All this can be verified but like I'm telling you I'm not trying to convince you. I'm not trying to get you to understand differently. All I'm sayings that if you want a to make an accusation you need more information. If you want to know ask. Otherwise nice talkin to ya.

 

[jaydaves]

Ask yourself this. If a reasonable person is handed a gun. Does a reasonable person point it at someone and pull the trigger. If not that is negligent homicide. You don't need training. You don't need too many brain cells.
If you don't know how to drive you dont jump behind the wheel and take off down the road without being responsible for the outcome.

No REASONABLE person would do that.

Yes he shouldn't have handed her the gun. That is obvious. He paid the price for his negligence.
He wasn't on trial, she was.
Now its her turn. She also displayed negligence by pointing at a human being and pulling the trigger knowing that was a deadly weapon. No form of training needs to explain that to a 19 year old who has a stepfather with firearms as well.

 

[Verd]

Ask yourself this. If a reasonable person is handed a gun. Does a reasonable person point it at someone and pull the trigger. If not that is negligent homicide. You don't need training. You don't need too many brain cells.
If you don't know how to drive you dont jump behind the wheel and take off down the road without being responsible for the outcome.

No REASONABLE person would do that.

Thats not what happened according to the story. They were playing with guns, dry firing them.

Thats akin to the popular "If your friends jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?" Where I live, jumping off of bridges into the water below is extremely common. Even if it wasn't, if all my buddies jumped off a bridge and were okay, i would do the same if it looked fun.

Another example:

My FIL was checking the trigger pull of his gun, dry firing it multiple times over and over again. He handed me the gun and I dry fired as well to test something. If it had been different, if I had seen his gun dry fired many times over and then said what the woman in the story said... its pretty reasonable for me to think that the gun would not be loaded.

It boils down to: He handed a unknowingly loaded gun to someone who expressed a desire to shoot him. He did not tell her, "Careful, it is loaded" as someone with gun trainging and safety would do. He just handed it to her to make good on her threat.

 

[jaydaves]

Another example:

My FIL was checking the trigger pull of his gun, dry firing it multiple times over and over again. He handed me the gun and I dry fired as well to test something. If it had been different, if I had seen his gun dry fired many times over and then said what the woman in the story said... its pretty reasonable for me to think that the gun would not be loaded

Ok you keep pushing thisdry fire thing saying your going on 4th party information. Let's say, IN YOUR EXAMPLE, your friend is dry firing this gun several times. Takes it, loads it, shoots it several times, which you are aware of. Then passes it to others to shoot. Then the gun is passed to you. Do you dry fire it without knowing if its loaded? Ok go a step further. Do you aim it at someone's face and dry fire it not knowing if it is loaded? She knew the gun was being fired with live ammunition. Even in your scenario you wouldn't put it in your friends face and test it. See I'm not asking you if you would follow. No. I'm giving you the definition of criminal negligent homicide: people who through criminal negligence ALLOW someone to die. Now criminal negligence is defined as: careless, inattentive, neglectful, willfully blind, or in the case of gross negligence what would have been reckless in any other person.
So by that definition to make a proper judgement in this case, you have to look at what she did was it careless? Was what she did inattentive?
Was what she did reckless compared to a reasonable person?
You said it yourself you would possibly dry fire it if you saw your friend dry firing it and than immediately handing it to you. But that is also your conclusion. It wasn't immediate. You also don't take into consideration she saw and heard the guns being fired. Particularly that gun.
Now based on your story you might dry fire the firearm. But would you point it at your friends face and dry fire it? NOT KNOWING if it was loaded or not?
Of course not, a reasonable person, which is what is compared in this case, would not have a gun point it in someone's face and pull the trigger, ESPECIALLY not knowing if it was loaded.
Whether it was an accident or not is irrelevant. That was not on trial. Whether she did not consider the possibilities. Whether she did not think before her actions. Whether what she did accident or not, stupidity or not, ignorance or not, caused the death of another because she failed to consider the consequence of what MAY happen. That's what she was charged with. Anyone in their right mind cannot say that what she did was careful, that it was thoroughly thought through. That she considered everyone else's life, that she actually thought this through. And if you can say well ya it was foolish and not thought out. That is guilty in this case with what she is charged with.That's negligence.
Ignorance is not a defense.

 

[jaydaves]

It boils down to: He handed a unknowingly loaded gun to someone who expressed a desire to shoot him. He did not tell her, "Careful, it is loaded" as someone with gun trainging and safety would do. He just handed it to her to make good on her threat.[/QUOTE]

First he had no gun training either. It was not his gun and he was the same age. Actually a year younger. Second that's irrelevant to what she is charged with. He displayed neglect. No proper care that a reasonable person would do correct? And he paid his price. She was charged with criminal neglect and homicide. Her neglect was she did not ask if it was loaded, she pointed it in his face, and she pulled the trigger knowing that's how a gun is fired. That is her neglect. Is it an accident? I don't think so, but that irrelevant. That was not on trial. Did she do something that the law states as a reasonable person would do? Would a reasonable person take a possible loaded gun, not check it to see if its loaded, point it in some other humans face, and pull the trigger.
No one can say a reasonable person would do that.
That is negligent homicide.

 

[slowfiveoh]

COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Totally inappropriate. Calm down if you want to stay here..

You're about as threatening to me as a cupcake with pink frosting kid.


Nobody is trying to talk hard but you. So before you get a swift kick to the ass for your comical stupidity, why don't you calm down child?


Gee, if I told you I would shoot you right now if I had a gun, and you had taken your own loaded firearm, and handed it to me, I wonder if you would be accessory to your own murder?

Yeah, you would be.


We've been nice because you suffered a loss, and we feel for you. The truth though is your cousin-in-law was one of two things.

A.) Suicidal.

or

B.) A complete and total moron.


It doesn't make it alright for the shooter to have shot him, but reduced sentence for sure.


Hey though keep running your mouth there bud. You look like a complete idiot ass trying to defend a complete idiot ass.

Sorry for your loss, and sorry for your ignorance.

Don't play with guns kid.

Oh and yes, I'm "trying to judge you". You come off like an illiterate backwoods (desert?) retard, and that's why you're getting the "You Mad?" commentary from others. You plain and simply sound, and present yourself, like an idiot.

 

[SFCRetired]

1. Teenagers fueled by both hormones and alcohol. I won't speculate about other substances.

2. Idiotic handling of weaponry by all concerned and it doesn't matter if one of the weapons was Airsoft or not, they were still weapons.

3. Had the victim not been drinking, would he have performed the actions that led to his death? Unknown, but probably not.

4. As far as the young woman, a jury of her peers acquitted her.

As concerns credibility, I would give the presumption of credibility to the poster who is most articulate, less prone to childish comments, and appears to be more in control of himself/herself.

 

[jaydaves]

You're about as threatening to me as a cupcake with pink frosting kid.

COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Totally inappropriate. Calm down if you want to stay here.

 

[ElectricianLU58]

A drunk boy hands loaded weapon to a drunk girl, who had just made the statement "If I had a gun I would shoot you"...

If this is a correct assessment of what happened, i think the victim shares the responsibility for his death. Whether it was suicide or not, could never be known. I think the jury felt the same way as I do.

Whether this boy really had a promising future... That is obviously debatable. He definitely made very poor choices and did not spend his time with good people. I am of the firm belief that one is known by the company one keeps. obviously, partying while handling loaded weapons is just plain stupid. This boy may have been a nice person, but his choices were unsurvivable in this instance. May he rest in peace.

 

[slowfiveoh]

Funny you keep saying kid, kid ,kid....

Blah blah blah.

Worthless jackhole is worthless.

Sorry for your loss kid.

Boy, you sure seem to be mad to type all that worthless drivel out.

 

[RetiredOC]

Any man that gets brave when he drinks can get destroyed if their are guns

there? their? or they're?

Your trying to judge me now? Don't get confused I'm still alive and well. You think that you can insult my intelligence by saying something as pathetic as stop mixing slang with big boy words. Shut the hell up!

Well I sat in the court room. Those people that your reading it off of...

your? or you're?


real talk dude, I'd be interested in what you have to say and your point of view, but since you've just came up in here trash talking my fellow brethren of OCDO with your terrible grammar and spelling I cannot take you seriously.

I'm sorry you lost a friend, that sucks. But the truth is your friend did something stupid. Alcohol is no excuse to be a complete idiot, no one sits there and ties you up and forces alcohol down your throat and hands you a gun. Your buddy went out drinking, brought a gun, and made some stupid decisions. For this he will never reproduce, as earlier posts pointed out this is Darwin's theory. It isn't the nicest thing to say, but it is true. Because he was stupid his gene pool will cease to exist.

EDIT #2: you mad.

EDIT #3: When you come on posting out of anger it becomes obvious to everyone that you are doing such and you lose all credibility. it also gives me an excuse to google every "he mad" jpeg on the internet and post it here...

EDIT #4:

 

[jaydaves]

It's all the same facts. The point of difference is if you don't understand what the law states and what she was charged with, than you have no clue on making a proper assessment. The fact that both of them did something that resulted in his death means both were neglectful. He paid his price and she walked. That's all. I've said the whole time I don't dispute the drunken, ignorant actions of him. And as such her drunken ignorant actions should not be disputed either. They both screwed up. If you can't agree to that you've got something loose in your head. That was the neglect for human life she was charged. Nothing more.

 

[jaydaves]

your? or you're?

COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Totally inappropriate. Calm down if you want to stay here.

 

[RetiredOC]

You were on a roll....until this

You keep saying he mad he mad, and your going to correct grammar?

This has turned into the most entertaining thread on OCDO...

 

[jaydaves]

I am a nutsack...know this.

You would really say that about yourself?

 

[RetiredOC]

You would really say that about yourself?

^This failed attempt at trolling is unsat, son.^

 

[Dahwg]

It's all the same facts. The point of difference is if you don't understand what the law states and what she was charged with, than you have no clue on making a proper assessment. The fact that both of them did something that resulted in his death means both were neglectful. He paid his price and she walked. That's all. I've said the whole time I don't dispute the drunken, ignorant actions of him. And as such her drunken ignorant actions should not be disputed either. They both screwed up. If you can't agree to that you've got something loose in your head. That was the neglect for human life she was charged. Nothing more.

I'd be careful about saying that people on here don't understand the law. In fact, I'd dare say the majority of people on here know the law better than most cops. That said, you have stated many times that he was murdered, and the definition of murder is very specific- he was killed, it was a homicide, but she was acquitted by a jury of her peers, so she did not commit murder. She will have to live with this for the rest of her life. The couple of times that I've seen Chela since the shooting, I can tell that she is not well. I also know that Rene's family is suffering tremendously, I know that my cousin is frustrated and angry about the verdict and for them, there seems to be no closure in this. But I think you hit the nail on the head jaydaves when when you said, they were both negligent and yes he paid the price, and she walks, but let me add, her life is forever scarred by the tragedy. As tragic as it is that a life was lost, I hope the rest of the kids learned a lesson about drinking and "playing" with guns, because that's exactly what they were doing- nothing about it was responsible.

Sadly, people always want to assign blame, and want someone to have to pay for what happened. I understand how Rene's family would want to see justice served, but justice is blind and emotionless. Justice was served by the jury and this tragic chapter in both family's lives has come to a close. Lives are shattered and it is a sad sad thing that has happened and I pray for Chela and her family as well as Rene's family. May God's peace comfort them all.

 

[jaydaves]

I'd be careful about saying that people on here don't understand the law. In fact, I'd dare say the majority of people on here know the law better than most cops.

I don't believe that I was referring to everyone on here just a pair...I do agree with you on some things. I said that my opinion was one sided. And is purely that... My opinion. I do feel he was murdered and that probably will never change. That being said she was not on trial for murder. But I did fairly TRY to lay out the facts. And again I am not denying the ignorance of both in this aspect. So I do agree with you. But again I'm am biased.
I was mearly venting as well as bringing the facts of the case so other opinions can have correct information.

May God's peace comfort them all.

Amen to that!

By the way your one of the first answering here that make actual sense. So thank you for that.