Virginia credit union asked me to leave

[peter nap]

You can't imagine a single business that might have a good reason to disallow guns on the premises? Swimming pools? Amusement parks?

I just don't see any reason why I should enforce my preference on everyone. If someone wants to start their anti-2A coffee shop where they and all their soccer mom friends can "feel safe", well why shouldn't they have that right? What makes you so special?

The good news is y'all will never get what you want in this regard. It's too illogical; there's too many cases where too many people will agree "yeah, maybe there they should be allowed to ban guns..." Not to mention you don't even have anything like universal support within the gun rights crowd.

I mean, right off the bat, good luck convincing basically anyone that there aren't "bars" in Virginia and that "bars" shouldn't have the right to ban guns. (Frankly, I think they should obviously have this right. I just choose not to frequent them.)

This has gotten to be an interesting discussion...and an annoying one at the same time.

It amazes me at how narrow minded gun owners can be sometimes and how they push for laws that eventually hurt everyone.

Let's look at anti gun restaurants...Buffalo Wild Wings. They ban guns. So what, I have choices, Quaker Steak and Hooters for instance. Anti's have a place to go, Pro have places to go.

If a law were passed to force everyone to allow guns, the anti's would have to live with it. What's that I hear, the anti's are sub human so who cares. Gotta point but...

What happens if it went the other way and no one could take a gun in a place that serves wings. Are we sub human and so what?

Now let's put that in perspective. I smoke and don't make any apologies for it.

Tim Kaine decided he wanted everyone who didn't smoke to be able to go in any restaurant in in the state and not have to put up with sub human smokers.

The business doesn't have an option of putting up a sign saying, this Is Not a Smoke Free Environment, they were all faced with expensive alterations or losing a lot of smoking business.

The old system worked well but in typical fashion, government intrusion made it worse.

As it is now, if an anti gun business doesn't want our money there are others that do.

 

[marshaul]

This has gotten to be an interesting discussion...and an annoying one at the same time.

It amazes me at how narrow minded gun owners can be sometimes and how they push for laws that eventually hurt everyone.

Let's look at anti gun restaurants...Buffalo Wild Wings. They ban guns. So what, I have choices, Quaker Steak and Hooters for instance. Anti's have a place to go, Pro have places to go.

If a law were passed to force everyone to allow guns, the anti's would have to live with it. What's that I hear, the anti's are sub human so who cares. Gotta point but...

What happens if it went the other way and no one could take a gun in a place that serves wings. Are we sub human and so what?

Now let's put that in perspective. I smoke and don't make any apologies for it.

Tim Kaine decided he wanted everyone who didn't smoke to be able to go in any restaurant in in the state and not have to put up with sub human smokers.

The business doesn't have an option of putting up a sign saying, this Is Not a Smoke Free Environment, they were all faced with expensive alterations or losing a lot of smoking business.

The old system worked well but in typical fashion, government intrusion made it worse.

As it is now, if an anti gun business doesn't want our money there are others that do.

You approach the issue the same way I do, brother.

I can imagine what it's like being on the short end of the stick... No reason to be the guy to put others there.

I like the smoking analogy, BTW. More freedom/less government is never a bad thing IMO, even if some people make decisions we disagree with using their freedom.

 

[TFred]

Let's keep it honest here... restaurant smoking is an invalid analogy because someone carrying either openly or especially concealed has no physical impact on the other customers. Second hand smoke is well documented to cause health problems and discomfort to others. (You might dispute the health issues, but there is no dispute to the discomfort.)



TFred

 

[peter nap]

Let's keep it honest here... restaurant smoking is an invalid analogy because someone carrying either openly or especially concealed has no physical impact on the other customers. Second hand smoke is well documented to cause health problems and discomfort to others. (You might dispute the health issues, but there is no dispute to the discomfort.)



TFred

I knew that was coming:uhoh:

 

[TFred]

I knew that was coming:uhoh:

If it were up to me, I would start a "stop smoking" campaign for ALL the senior RKBA folks (senior in accomplishment and service, not age) simply because we can't afford to lose you even one day before absolutely necessary.

The experience here among this group is way too valuable to lose.

TFred

 

[FBrinson]

Interested in seeing someone take on marshaul's post #29.
I happen to agree with marshaul in his overall reasoning.

As for places 'open to public access', is that not different from 'public places'? In other words, I can open up my business to the public, but it is still private property, no? People don't have a general right to walk around in my business whenever they want at any time of the day. I can choose to ban people from my business. I can ban someone without even having to prove they did something illegal. If some guy comes in my business and is preaching the glory of the Westboro Baptist Church and starts alienating my customers, he's getting the boot. Did I violate his 1st amendment rights? Well, since I am not the government, I would argue 'no'. I think the same applies to the 2nd amendment. What about having your personal property searched at RIR? That's open to the public too.

 

[TFred]

This is veering off topic... but anyway... let's try this angle...

Most RKBA folks view self-defense as a God-given right. Or if that phrase doesn't work for you, an inherent human right, that is to be neither granted nor revoked by any government. Our Declaration of Independence covers it with the phrase, "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness".

What other rights covered by that idea are private property owners allowed to take from us?

TFred

 

[FBrinson]

This is veering off topic... but anyway... let's try this angle...

Most RKBA folks view self-defense as a God-given right. Or if that phrase doesn't work for you, an inherent human right, that is to be neither granted nor revoked by any government. Our Declaration of Independence covers it with the phrase, "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness".

What other rights covered by that idea are private property owners allowed to take from us?

TFred

Liberty
If you shoplift, I can legally detain you.
Life
If I feel I am in immanent danger for mine or my family's lives.
Pursuit of Happiness
NAMBLA members. (in their sick world) Not gonna happen in my business.

On-topic: my wife banks at VACU. She likes them. I OCed there once.

 

[marshaul]

Interested in seeing someone take on marshaul's post #29.

I, too, noticed nobody was willing to acknowledge/respond to that post.

 

[marshaul]

What other rights covered by that idea are private property owners allowed to take from us?

Property owners can demand you submit to a search before being allowed on their property (even property which is essentially open to the public, such as a movie theater).

Property owners can ask that you not make certain forms of (protected) speech on their property. They can ask you to not prostrate yourself on the floor in prayer to Allah.

Don't like it? Don't give 'em your money.

Are these rights "taken" from you? Are you being forced to submit to a search, or to come onto their property at all?

I think not.

 

[va_tazdad]

Been a member for 20 years

I have never had a problem OC at the Genito branch.

Whereas there is a frequent change of staff and tellers, I don't think there is anyone still there that remembers when I was a sworn police officer.

Never had a problem with the branch by Va Center Commons either.

 

[peter nap]

Don't like it? Don't give 'em your money.
.

Fixed it for you!:lol:

I hope that used boat salesman at Colonial is reading this:banana:

 

[richarcm]

Property owners can demand you submit to a search before being allowed on their property (even property which is essentially open to the public, such as a movie theater).

Property owners can ask that you not make certain forms of (protected) speech on their property. They can ask you to not prostrate yourself on the floor in prayer to Allah.

Don't like it? Don't give 'em your money.

Are these rights "taken" from you? Are you being forced to submit to a search, or to come onto their property at all?

I think not.

+1

 

[papa bear]

This is a good point. I had never thought of it.

Folks also have a civil/human right to pray to Mecca and to advocate for NAMBLA. I guess I just never realized I had to let them do these things in the middle of my business. That's pretty cool, huh?

Rights, properly understood, sure are awesome, ain't they?

here goes i will try. there is a balance to rights. if your rights interfere with the rights of others there is a control to that right.
smoking is a good example. when one smokes they take the rights of others to breath free away.therefor if you smoke in a bubble no problem. it is a legal substance. but if your smoking takes away others right to breath free then you are restricted

but as always when you open a business that's open to the public, you must have a license and you give up a certain amount of rights , so you can do business. example you must have certain toilets (you can't charge a fee) for handicap excess. you must have a fire extinguisher, you can't lock your back door, you can't block the fuse box, etc., etc,. therefore i can't see why there should be a problem with making them allow a firearm on a person. an inanimate object that does nothing to take the rights from the business owner.

lots of places have a no smoking sign, but does that mean you can't carry a pack of cigarettes in the business? no you just can't light up. well maybe we should be able to carry a firearm, we just can't light them up

if a business wants to be exclusive then let them. let them have to have a membership to enter the establishment. Costco is a good example. then they can make a lot more rules, by theory exclude lots of people

 

[Grapeshot]

--snip--
lots of places have a no smoking sign, but does that mean you can't carry a pack of cigarettes in the business? no you just can't light up. well maybe we should be able to carry a firearm, we just can't light them up
.......

Like the way you think papabear - now if we can just get you appointed to the bench

 

[peter nap]

Like the way you think papabear

Some of it anyway
His example of smoking is one I don't.
How is smoking infringing on someone else's rights? If you don't like smoke, don't stand down wind of me.

At the Governors inaugural speech in the square, I backed away from the crowd and lit a cigarette and sat down on the wall. Eventually a fat redheaded woman came up and moved exactly downwind, started sniffing like a hound around bacon grease, then ran up to me squalling about being allergic and it being illegal to smoke there which of course, it isn't.

That called for an ungentlemanly comment. Then she told one of the Capital Police who had the nerve to tell me I shouldn't smoke because it bothered her. I lit another cigarette and commented on his linage also.

Point is...when you think you can just go where you please when the rights space is already taken,it gets complicated.

 

[va_tazdad]

All I can say is

Some of it anyway
His example of smoking is one I don't.
How is smoking infringing on someone else's rights? If you don't like smoke, don't stand down wind of me.

At the Governors inaugural speech in the square, I backed away from the crowd and lit a cigarette and sat down on the wall. Eventually a fat redheaded woman came up and moved exactly downwind, started sniffing like a hound around bacon grease, then ran up to me squalling about being allergic and it being illegal to smoke there which of course, it isn't.

That called for an ungentlemanly comment. Then she told one of the Capital Police who had the nerve to tell me I shouldn't smoke because it bothered her. I lit another cigarette and commented on his linage also.

Point is...when you think you can just go where you please when the rights space is already taken,it gets complicated.

BRAVO !!!! You are my hero !!!!