Walmart Policy Change?

[suntzu]

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DrTodd wrote:

curtiswr wrote:

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum7/14689.html

There is a user (Parabellum) in that thread who posted a call to Wal-Mart which clarified that corporate policy is to honor state laws for the state whatever store you are going to is in.

When I was stopped by the Assistant Manager, I informed him that I believed that the "honor state laws" was corporate policy. The Assistant Manager informed me that my belief was wrong.

that manager is wrong. Walmart like so many other companies only prohibit employees from carrying when on the job.

there is no corporate policy banning guns.

 

[classic747guy]

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I am new to having my license to carry firearms permit issued in Pennsylvania. I live in the Erie, PA area and have already asked Walmart prior to carrying in the store if I was violating any of their policies in carrying my gun while in the store. I explained that I had a license to carry and they responded to me very respectfully that I could carry anytime within the store. They explained they had no policy that prohibts doing so. I plan on carrying while in Walmart myself, but found it very unfortunate that others of you did not receive the same response. With as many honey do lists that my wife often has going it would be very inconvienent to have to leave my gun in the car. Plus, doesn't that defeat the purpose!

Randall

 

[Section32]

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Gunowners, generally being people that respect fairness and a high level of business ethics, should NEVER shop at Walmart regardless of their position on firearms carry. My position on this is the result of first hand knowledge of Walmart's current practice of suing (blackmailng) U.S. based construction material suppliers simply to pump up their bottom line. The case I'm familiar with has absolutely no merit. It was initiated by a high-powered Dallas ambulance chaser. Walmart allows these crooks to go through their books looking for opportunities to leverage their good American suppliers who have become addicted to the narcotic of Walmart volume. These sharks are paid purely on contingency so it doesn't cost WM a dime. Most of the victims settle, not out of fear of losing the case but from fear of losing the business if they win. This is the most corrupt and unethical behavior I have ever witnessed in my 30+ years in business. BEWARE if you are a domestic Walmart supplier!

 

[MatieA]

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classic747guy wrote:

I am new to having my license to carry firearms permit issued in Pennsylvania. I live in the Erie, PA area and have already asked Walmart prior to carrying in the store if I was violating any of their policies in carrying my gun while in the store. I explained that I had a license to carry and they responded to me very respectfully that I could carry anytime within the store. They explained they had no policy that prohibts doing so. I plan on carrying while in Walmart myself, but found it very unfortunate that others of you did not receive the same response. With as many honey do lists that my wife often has going it would be very inconvienent to have to leave my gun in the car. Plus, doesn't that defeat the purpose!

Randall

I can tell you that I open carried in Walmart and several other stores whileI was in Erie in August and had NO problems from anyone. I got a couple of odd looks while in Krispy Kreme but noone said anything.

 

[useful_idiot]

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Set up a meeting with the General Manager. There are 27 assistant managers at any particular WalMart (hyperbole included free of charge) and they do not have the final say.

 

[classic747guy]

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The reason I asked was because of my limited knowledge of procedure as far as carrying in stores. I had read all the information on the PA websites, but it gives me peace of mind to hear it straight from the horses mouth so to speak. So, I wasn't trying to set up the kind of situation were the Walmart representative felt as though his answer was one he might have to defend to a higher up later on. Rather, I simply wanted to ask so as to be able to defend my position if ever questionedwhile shopping in the store. I am pleased with the answer I received andplan to leave it at that. I also understand that many of you based on your postsare bothered bysome Walmarts choice to limit the right to bear arms while in their store.I too am disappointed by hearing this news, but Ialsorealize thatthis is private property.Walmart does not have to agree with my personal opinions on guns,and if they choose they can ask me not to carry while on their property. I look at this argument from the other side of the coin in that I am quite pleasedthat weare not forced into any other ideology other than those we feel with great conviction. And just as many of you have voiced that you will not shop there due toWalmarts restrictive policy's on carrying, it is that choice that makes this country still strong today.

 

[G-16]

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I had just contacted a local Walmart about the OC issue. I was contacted back by some manager (I have the voicemail saved and will post it here when I get the time) who told me that in my state (CO) that I cannot OC inside any establishment. And to verify this call my local police office. What is even more out there is when I called the store and spoke to customer service and asked about OC I was told that only law enforcement could carry in their store period.



I think that this is just more of a movement to take away our second amendment.

 

[NCjones]

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Dreamer wrote:

I CC all the time in WalMarts all over NC. They have no signs posted, so under NC law, they would have no legal grounds to deny me access to their facilities.

If for some reason, someone saw my firearm, or I decided to OC, they would not have any legal grounds to ask me to leave either, because they have no signs posted prohibiting firearms. However, if I was asked to leave, I would, and gladly take my money somewhere else.

In either case, before I left, I would hand them one of my "no guns = no money" cards, and inform them that neither I or my family members would not be shopping in their store in the future, due to their policy.

This is yet another good reason for having a CC permit if you're going to OC.

Of course, it's also a good reason to not shop at your local WalMart. Personally, I rarely shop there, because they are just a conduit for funneling our hard-earned money to China. The only things I buy with any regularity at WalMart are things I know are made here in the US--bulk ammo and bulk tubs of cat litter. The way I see it, my purchase history at WalMart is sort of a personal statement on what I think of their corporate policies...

I know the Walmart in Goldsboro (spence ave) allows OC. At least I and my friend have never been questioned or told to leave.

"they would have no legal grounds to deny me access to their facilities." WalMart is not public or community property. Under the trespass law they can ask you to leave their property for any reason or no reason. They don't have to tell you why, they can just say "you have to leave". Failure to leave after being told to is criminal trespass in NC.

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
§ 14-159.13. Second degree trespass.
(a) Offense. -- A person commits the offense of second degree trespass if, without
authorization, he enters or remains on premises of another:
(1) After he has been notified not to enter or remain there by the owner,
by a person in charge of the premises, by a lawful occupant, or by another authorized person; or
(2) That are posted, in a manner reasonably likely to come to the
attention of intruders, with notice not to enter the premises.
(b) Classification. -- Second degree trespass is a Class 3 misdemeanor. (1987, c. 700,
s. 1; 1993, c. 539, s. 102; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c).)
§
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

So far as the "no OC or CC allowed", unless they have a sign posted "in a conspicuous place" (front door) there is no blanket ban. You would have to be personally told not to carry by a manager. So, if I am CC'ing who is going to know?

My experience with WalMart is they really don't give a rats ass if you are a satisfied customer or not. They have a billion customers worldwide so a few "gun nuts" complaining about guns is not even worth their bother so far as they are concerned.

 

[Dreamer]

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I found this interesting website, while researching WalMart:

http://walmartcrimereport.com/

It gives crime report statistics for WalMarts all over the country, by ZIP code. But this info can be a little misleading.

For instance in my instance, the closest WalMart they have stats for is Greenville NC, which is about 18 miles from me, and the stats for the Greenville WalMart look on it's surface like it's a freaking den of iniquity, with 1358 police calls since 2002. But when you dig deeper, you find that of those calls, only 2 were "serious crimes", including one each of kidnapping and sex crime. I imagine that a LARGE majority of them were probably shoplifting charges and the calls were put in by WalMart staff.

But the WalMart here in Washington NC isn't even listed. This might lead one to believe that our local WalMart is crime-free, but that is not the case. I see police cars with flashing lights there several times a month. The reason the Washington WalMart doesn't register on this report is the same reason the local newspaper doesn't publish a "police blotter" and the same reason that the NIJ and BJS do not include stats for Washington NC in any of their crime studies--the Washington Police Department does not release their records to ANYONE voluntarily. Not the media, not citizens who apply formally for information, not even the Feds. The only way you're going to get any crime statistics from the Washington Police department is if you get a court order, or file legal action due to a denied FOIA request.

The local newspaper doesn't seem to upset about this--I think there is a sort of "conspiracy of silence" attitude towards crime here in Washinton. Or city is sort of a strange mix--there isn't much of a "middle class" anymore here at all. It's mostly poor minorities and "old money" southern Gentry here. I think the media doesn't think the minority communities read the papers (which is a popular, if extremely racist, belief held by many American newspapers), and also think that the "rich folk" either don't want to know what's really going on in the streets, or (more likely) they don't want OTHERS (tourists, and other outsiders) to know and so there is some pressure from local officials to keep this information out of the public domain. Our economy is largely dependent on tourism here--we get a lot of vacation travelers going to and from the OBX, a lot of sportsmen (hunting and fishing are BIG business out here) and the Boating crowd also brings a fair amount of cashflow into our area because we are the last (or first, depending on which way your going) big inland pier on the Pamlico...

And I did a search for the city where my sister lives in WV, and the report said there are NO statistics for WalMarts within 100 miles of that ZIP, so I assume that the same thing (non-compliance of local police departments) applies for WV WalMarts...

So is your WalMart safe? From the looks of this website, a lot of them are NOT. But you also need to take this report (like ANY statistical report) with a grain of salt, and understand how crime information flows from your local LE departments...

 

[Grapeshot]

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For whatever the reason, Richmond Wally Worlds are not included either.

"Sorry, we have no data for Wal-Mart stores within 100 miles"


Yata hey

 

[86mustang]

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OMG another wall mart thread.:banghead:

 

[Stolworthy]

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Washington state:celebrate

 

[okboomer]

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And, by not posting a no guns sign, WM is being dishonest with it's customers. I believe this is the issue that you should be addressing. I'm sure that if you checked your state's statutes, a business MUST post a policy that doesn't allow weapons. If this is not posted, then they broke the law by asking you to leave.

As it is, rubbing their nose in their own hypocracy is a point for 2A and OC everywhere.

 

[tekshogun]

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I know in North Carolina, any one owner, controller, manager of any private property can ask you to leave their premises if you have an open-carried or concealed carried hand gun. If you do not leave, you can be charged with trespassing. Unless Wal-Mart's corporate policy explicitly states that guns are allowed to be carried (concealed, open, etc) in their stores nationwide granted the State it self allows it, then if a manager or security at the store ask you to leave you best do it and not as a common courtesy, the next person to come talk to you may be a justified police officer, that is here in NC at least. In fact, just about any establishment can post a conspicuous sign stating that guns are prohibited on the premises and you must comply, concealed or not.

 

[REX681959]

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If I remember correctly if they ask you to leave that doesn't mean you can't go back.Unless they specifically tell you not to come back OC then that's EXACTLY what I would do. Then if they make an issue of just you I think you have a discrimination issue.

 

[simmonsjoe]

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Why does anyone ask for permission to CC anywhere?
You remove the ability to say "sorry I didn't know I'll leave" if you ever get caught.

As for wal-mart employees you never ask shit of them -- ever. Just correct them on their mistake (politely!) You can make up anything and they'll believe you. wtf does the assistant manager for the 3rd shift of the fabrics department know about anything but crochet?

 

[UtahJarhead]

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simmonsjoe wrote:

As for wal-mart employees you never ask @#$% of them -- ever. Just correct them on their mistake (politely!) You can make up anything and they'll believe you. wtf does the assistant manager for the 3rd shift of the fabrics department know about anything but crochet?

HAHAHA! That's great! I LOL'd.

 

[Dreamer]

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Greenville NC WalMart crime rate makes the news:

http://www.witn.com/stateregional/headlines/70397872.html

600 police calls in the last 12 months for one location? :shock:

And people wonder why we carry when we go shopping... :banghead:

 

[tekshogun]

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Dreamer wrote:

Greenville NC WalMart crime rate makes the news:

http://www.witn.com/stateregional/headlines/70397872.html

600 police calls in the last 12 months for one location? :shock:

And people wonder why we carry when we go shopping... :banghead:

Wow, looks like someone needs to enforce the Nuisance Abatement Law. The best use of our civil court system, well, in North Carolina at least. I do believe Alcohol Law Enforcement typically investigates nuisance properties.

 

[Hawkflyer]

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Well it is always pleasant when someone reaches back and resurrects an old dead thread. It proves that people actually do read the forums sometimes. But in this case the issue has been beaten to death. While it actully hurts to follow HankT's argument, he was very close to the actual issue, though as usual he missed the bulls eye.

In the U.S., Walmart will continue to focus on further improving the returns of its supercenter format through remodels of existing stores and by accelerating growth of new store designs capable of generating greater returns from current assets.

By November 2009, Walmart U.S. will have completed Project Impact remodels at more than 30 percent of its 3,538 stores. By the end of fiscal year 2012, approximately 70 percent of Walmart U.S. stores, including newly-constructed stores, are expected to be updated under the Project Impact initiative.

Source http://investors.walmartstores.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=112761&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1345359&highlight= (Emphasis added)

While hank was correct that considering the revenue that Walmart generates they are not likely to miss a few shoppers. Even if every person who supports OC boycotted every Walmart it would not even cause a blip in the revenue stream.

But for the issue at hand ... Corporate weapons carry policy ... The actual number that is important is that 3,538 store locations owned by Walmart. The fact is that Walmart does not want to take the corporate position that they will not allow firearms in any of their stores. That would raise objection from a lot of people other than OC supporters, and it would increase their legal exposure should there be an "incident" in one of there stores. So they go with this company line of "Walmart follows local laws in the location of the store".

Someone here correctly pointed out that most states allow weapons carry to be controlled by a land owner or someone appointed by the land owner. So in fact any one of those 3,538 store managers can set a store policy proscribing the carry of firearms and (s)he would be well within both corporate policy and local laws.

The bottom line is, I would suggest that if Walmart wants to ban firearms, they should just post the store with a sign so people will know. But they do not seem willing to do that. Why? Because "no firearms" signs going up all at once at 3,538 locations across America would draw a lot of attention from a lot of different special interest groups, and it would be big news. So Walmart corporate will continue to allow 3,538 unique store policies based largely on the individual managers politics. This avoids upsetting 80 million firearms owners, and allows them to control each store as they see fit.

If this bothers you then you SHOULD vote with your feet. But do not expect a juggernaut like Walmart to notice your departure. Just today OCDO membership went to 23,001. If every OCDO member was currently spending $5,000 per year at Walmart, that would only be $115,005,000 in Walmart's multi billion dollar revenue stream. Even if you assume that OCDO is only 10% of the OC community, the entire OC community could vanish in the morning and Walmart would only see about a .04% drop in revenue and an increase in productivity of its management because they would no longer have to deal with letters and questions from the OC world.

Regards