worst case scenario

[Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman]

imported post

As to the personal attack, that can be dealt with under its own topic.

Not a personal attack, sorry if it was taken as such. Rather, just an honest rebuttal to the tone and perspective in your post backed up with the context of your previous actions that you felt were best for advancing right in Wisconsin.

I don't consider it a person attack to express that you and I have often shared far different approaches to the open-carry topic and how best to 'move the ball forward'. We are adults here. We can share these differences in public. I express my opinions and conclusions as opinions and conclusions, but I also express fact as fact. If you dispute the facts I present, please counter them.

I don't think this is the place to spread fear that may discourage people from exercising their rights. You presented a pretty unrealistic (but still statistically existent) set of circumstances. I put that in perspective.

 

[Hillmann]

imported post

The original question was what is the worst case, and I think Brad answered pretty well; although he could have explained what he ment by some of them because someone new to OCDO wouldn't know what he was talking about.

 

[Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman]

imported post

Hillmann wrote:

The original question was what is the worst case, and I think Brad answered pretty well; although he could have explained what he ment by some of them because someone new to OCDO wouldn't know what he was talking about.

The original question:

so whats the worst thing that has occurred so far to a person who was legally open carrying in wisconsin,meaning,someone who was doing everything legal and by the book,stopped by the law.

Since the AG memo which was a watershed moment, I would respectfully ask that in the interest of honesty and disclosure anyone who claims that IN Wisconsin, since the AG Memo someone has been lawfully OC'ing and had anyone of the following outcomes please provide an example to back up the statement:

- arrest on felony charges
- permanent loss of income
- labeled a criminal by family and friends
- loss of relationships
-
-
-
-
-
-
- unwanted change of address
-
- unmanageable stress leading to murder/suicide

I'd like to know who was arrested for lawfully OC'ing in Wisconsin who then committed murder/suicide?

I'd like to know post AG memo who has been LAWFULLY OC'ing in Wisconsin who was arrested on FELONY charges.

I'd like to know post AG memo who has had permanent loss if income from lawfully OC'ing in Wisconsin.

I'd like to know post AG memo who in Wisconsin was lawfully open-carrying, arrested, and labeled a criminal by their family and friends.

 

[Spartacus]

imported post

Brad_Krause wrote:

Attacking a person for providing a well-informed factual answer you are not happy with serves little purpose. When someone asks "so whats the best thing that has occurred..." will you attack those who respond with answers you do not approve of?

Your "well-informed factual answers" statement reminds me a lot of what I hear from the liberal media when they are trying to put a positive spin on the negative politics of the day. The only difference is that you are putting a horribly negative spin on what could and should be a positive experience for an OCer.

For my part even though I never "attacked" you I feel you deserve a good ass-kicking but it seems that Nik has that well in hand so I will step aside and let the big guy handle you.

 

[AaronS]

imported post

I would just like to take a moment to thank Brad Krause for the wake up call. It was his story on the news that woke me up to my rights.

I would also like to take a moment to thank Brad for showing up the most of the Greenfield Board meetings. The first meeting we had about 10 people show up for, the rest, we had about 3 or 4. Many times it was just three, and Brad was there, even though he did not live in the city... Have all of us gone to our local village or city to have old gun laws removed from the books? He has.

I understand that some might have issues with Brad. He has made a few choices that I might not have, but he is not a bad guy for it. He is just not me. I do think he is still on my side though.

 

[revolverrandy]

imported post

I understand the not wanting to live in fear theory,and it makes sense.Reason I am disecting everything and crossing my t's and dotting my i's,is because in my line of work,I can lose my job if I do anything that involves any type of trouble with the law,and for that reason alone,the more I know,the more informed I am,the more secure that will be.Just want to say its not my intent to stir the pot.Sorry if that happened as a result

 

[J.Gleason]

imported post

It is all about the training you know. If you don't get the training, bad things could happen to you. I just have to wonder, If you get the training does it come with a gaurantee that bad things won't happen to you? Um No!

Plain and simple, don't worry about what has happened to anyone else, just be aware of it. Go out and exercise your rights. It's OK. Don't ask permission because you won't get it. Just do it! and enjoy the day.

Peace

 

[J.Gleason]

imported post

Care to share Randy? What is your job?

 

[J.Gleason]

imported post

As far as forum attacks go, that wasn't nothin. Nik and I have went rounds that even the best attackers can't compare to. Punches were thrown, Kicks were placed, we poked each other with sticks, threw rocks at each other ( I think he hit me in the head once ) all for the sake of disagreeing with each other. Hey, we are still alive and still here fighting for the same cause ( even thou he still likes Walker ) Anyways, I will stand up and fight along side anyone that is that devoted to securing our rights.

You may not always believe in my opinions but you can be sure where I stand.

Carry On and Carry Always!

Molon Labe!

 

[revolverrandy]

imported post

sent you a pm Gleason

 

[hardballer]

imported post

J.Gleason wrote:

Anyways, I will stand up and fight along side anyone that is that devoted to securing our rights.

You may not always believe in my opinions but you can be sure where I stand.

Carry On and Carry Always!

Molon Labe!

That is agreed.

Brad does have a particular place in the history of OC in Wisconsin and so I believe he should have our gratitude and respect for what he has done for us and the future of OC here.

I will stand with you all too.

 

[Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman]

imported post

No one is "disrespecting" Brad.

Everyone on this forum who has done anything large or small to advance freedom deserves respect. For that matter, anyone who gets up in the morning, puts their shoes on and goes off to work to support themselves, their family, and live a free life as our founding fathers intended deserves respect. Anyone who has open-carried as a free man deserves respect. Anyone who has expressed views of freedom and right to others and been an ambassador for freedom and human rights deserves respect.

Those who deny freedom, those who live off the fruits of others. Those who violate others rights are the ones who deserve no disrespect.

Those who put personal gratuitous interests ABOVE principle and freedom deserve no respect. Those who sometimes act by principle and respect freedom, but on occasion remiss to put self-gain ahead of honesty truth and principle should not get a free pass on those things merely because other things they have done were worthy of respect.

Having said that, its a disservice to this forum and to the movement to spread fear and hyperbole. A specific question was asked and I challenge the validity of the answers given. I believe claims were made that cannot be supported by fact. That is a disservice to this movement and should be corrected (or evidence provided to support it)

So that we can paint a clear picture for a new OC'er coming to the forum who may not know the history of OC in Wisconsin... Can anyone provide examples of a law-abiding OC'er in Wisconsin POST AG MEMO who received:

- arrest on felony charges
- permanent loss of income
- labeled a criminal by family and friends
- loss of relationships
-
-
-
-
-
-
- unwanted change of address
-
- unmanageable stress leading to murder/suicide

If examples of these exist then in the interest of disclosure to those who may be weighing the value of OC'ing, they should be given so that people can weigh the potential risk of exercising their rights.

If examples cannot be given, I think its a disservice to those who come here seeking objective information for the claims to have been made.

 

[Spartacus]

imported post

I have heard of murderers and child molesters that have suffered those consequences, but surprisingly no OCers... :?

 

[Tree_Planter]

imported post

Nick of WI Carry Inc:

The original question, and title of this thread, is about the "worst case scenario." I answered it, and expanded upon the scope a bit based on what has happened to people who lawfully open carried.

If you remember, the Police Chief's Association agreed post Attorney General memorandum (according to the paper) unanimously to take people down at gunpoint, disarm them, and make them prove their innocence. Someone (not you) sent legal papers to the police chiefs. Whether by coincidence or design, each chief rescinded that decision at approximately the same time the papers arrived. Excepting, of course, West Allis, who had a different take on things.

 

[McX]

imported post

i thought the federal ban was deemed unenforceable, or some poo-poo like that, but maybe all will change with the scotus decision?

 

[J.Gleason]

imported post

Wasn't the federal GFSZ restriction already found to be unconstitutional?

 

[Tree_Planter]

imported post

J.Gleason wrote:

Wasn't the federal GFSZ restriction already found to be unconstitutional?

The 1990 ban was struck down in 1995 in the Lopez case. Congress re-enacted it under President Clinton in 1996.

 

[J.Gleason]

imported post

I was not aware that congress could re enact a law that was found to be unconstitutional. That law would be unenforceable.

 

[Tree_Planter]

imported post

J.Gleason wrote:

I was not aware that congress could re enact a law that was found to be unconstitutional. That law would be unenforceable.

They did not re-enact the law, they re-enacted the ban.

This is the part that decent, law-abiding citizens continually get tripped up on; sometimes calling it "playing dirty" or "playing politics." We abide by the spirit of the law, common sense (hopefully), good morals and character, but not everyone does. This is why decent people usually detest "politics" once they see how things really work.

Congress took the old law and literally changed a few words so it was a new bill with the same general effect. Former President Clinton signed it into law.

In theory, Greenfield WI did the same type of thing, changing the wording/ordinance but netting the same general effect of banning carry. In the end our rights were upheld, but it was dicey for a while.

I wish fighting unconstitutional bans was straightforward and intelligible, but sometimes it just isn't, and that is out of my control.

 

[J.Gleason]

imported post

I always said there is no such thing as a good politician.