0V3RC10CK3D
Regular Member
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I'm going to go watch the Boondock Saints, I love that movie.
I'm going to go watch the Boondock Saints, I love that movie.
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You don't need a gun..
- Thread starter TechnoWeenie
- Start date
swatspyder
Regular Member
imported post
I am not going to say I will never help someone in need, I would and will if they need help, in situations where the risk < reward.
But again, it is risk versus reward. Why am I going to risk my life to save someone else from being severely hurt or killed? And don't get me started on morals. If you are not alive to be called a "hero," then there was absolutely NO reward. Especially if you leave behind your own family.
I am armed to protect myself, friends and family. A person as young as her can be prepared to defend themselves. They can run, carry and use OC spray, or have knowledge of defensive fighting tactics.
I believe in what Charles Darwin is famous for. Survival of the fittest, or the people best prepared, will survive.
I am not going to say I will never help someone in need, I would and will if they need help, in situations where the risk < reward.
But again, it is risk versus reward. Why am I going to risk my life to save someone else from being severely hurt or killed? And don't get me started on morals. If you are not alive to be called a "hero," then there was absolutely NO reward. Especially if you leave behind your own family.
I am armed to protect myself, friends and family. A person as young as her can be prepared to defend themselves. They can run, carry and use OC spray, or have knowledge of defensive fighting tactics.
I believe in what Charles Darwin is famous for. Survival of the fittest, or the people best prepared, will survive.
Chris.R.Anderson
Regular Member
imported post
swatspyder wrote:
That depends. Did you change the outcome of the situation? Did you save the life you set out to save? Would they have died if you didn't intervene and live because you did?
The it is worth it.
In a hopeless situation you do what you can. In a situation where you can make a difference, save a life, you do EVERYTHING necessary to pull it off.
A lot of heroes come back from across the ocean. Many of them are not alive to hear the word used to describe them. Does that make them less of a hero? Diminish their honor? Make their deaths meaningless? Make the lives they saved any less sacred or any less saved? No.
If we can't remember as a people what it is to be selfless and put our neighbor above ourselves, then we have forgotten what it is to be people, and all this is meaningless anyway.
CRA
swatspyder wrote:
That depends. Did you change the outcome of the situation? Did you save the life you set out to save? Would they have died if you didn't intervene and live because you did?
The it is worth it.
In a hopeless situation you do what you can. In a situation where you can make a difference, save a life, you do EVERYTHING necessary to pull it off.
A lot of heroes come back from across the ocean. Many of them are not alive to hear the word used to describe them. Does that make them less of a hero? Diminish their honor? Make their deaths meaningless? Make the lives they saved any less sacred or any less saved? No.
If we can't remember as a people what it is to be selfless and put our neighbor above ourselves, then we have forgotten what it is to be people, and all this is meaningless anyway.
CRA
OrangeIsTrouble
Regular Member
imported post
swatspyder wrote:
Risk< Reward? Holy snapizzle you are A PUSSY.
Are you one of those guys that will ONLY take on a dude if you know you got it in the bag? Only do things when you know there is no risk to you? What A PUSSY.
Do stuff for the reward. Pffft.
I've done many things at my grandma's elderly apartment buildings, such as seeing people very old people trying to carry heavy stuff on the elevators and assisting, heck, I even carried it all way into elderly stranger's apartments and set it down for them WITHOUT expecting crap in return. And I would be back on my way on the elevator with no more thought of it. Even in the street, doing random acts of kindness without ever expecting a reward. It is nice to get a reward, but don't expect one. I haven't been in a situation where someone was beat, but I have been in situations where I did step up for someone and most likely prevent shizz from happening and have had the same happen for me, and I was very thankful.
You want that hero title? Sorry, you get the PUSSY title.
Edited to add:
And I apologize if I sound harsh, but this event really pissed me off, knowing this damn well could have been anyone else, and that all those pussies in the video, didn't do shizz but just stand gawk like morons. :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
swatspyder wrote:
Sigh. According to the articles on this story, she did leave, ASKED for police escort, DID use pepper spray on one person (remember there wasa group of 10 or so) and she did try to get help from the guards.
Risk< Reward? Holy snapizzle you are A PUSSY.
Are you one of those guys that will ONLY take on a dude if you know you got it in the bag? Only do things when you know there is no risk to you? What A PUSSY.
Do stuff for the reward. Pffft.
I've done many things at my grandma's elderly apartment buildings, such as seeing people very old people trying to carry heavy stuff on the elevators and assisting, heck, I even carried it all way into elderly stranger's apartments and set it down for them WITHOUT expecting crap in return. And I would be back on my way on the elevator with no more thought of it. Even in the street, doing random acts of kindness without ever expecting a reward. It is nice to get a reward, but don't expect one. I haven't been in a situation where someone was beat, but I have been in situations where I did step up for someone and most likely prevent shizz from happening and have had the same happen for me, and I was very thankful.
You want that hero title? Sorry, you get the PUSSY title.
Edited to add:
And I apologize if I sound harsh, but this event really pissed me off, knowing this damn well could have been anyone else, and that all those pussies in the video, didn't do shizz but just stand gawk like morons. :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
Bookman
Campaign Veteran
imported post
I'm currently a licensed unarmed Security Officer. While looking for a job I asked questions of the guards in the tunnel. Their pay is a few dollars less than mine, being just a little over minimum wage. Professionally speaking, they don't get paid enough to take the risk. Also professionally speaking, their contract specifically forbids them from interfering.
What you're doing is Monday Morning Quarterbacking in a field in which you aren't trained or employed. Sure, on a purely human level, they should have jumped in, but it seems to me I read somewhere that they were outnumbered just about 3 to 1. Sorry that I can't cite, but I'll try to find it again.
Also, weren't at least MOST of the people involved underage? If the S.O.s had so much as touched one of these little savages they could have gone to jail.
Believe me, the questions are being asked. This was a gigantic fail on the part of Metro. If they want real security in the tunnels they need to come off some Benjamins and get armed security in there.
I also ask myself why none of the bystanders got involved either. That's as much of a crime in my book as what thr guards weren't allowed to do.
I'm currently a licensed unarmed Security Officer. While looking for a job I asked questions of the guards in the tunnel. Their pay is a few dollars less than mine, being just a little over minimum wage. Professionally speaking, they don't get paid enough to take the risk. Also professionally speaking, their contract specifically forbids them from interfering.
What you're doing is Monday Morning Quarterbacking in a field in which you aren't trained or employed. Sure, on a purely human level, they should have jumped in, but it seems to me I read somewhere that they were outnumbered just about 3 to 1. Sorry that I can't cite, but I'll try to find it again.
Also, weren't at least MOST of the people involved underage? If the S.O.s had so much as touched one of these little savages they could have gone to jail.
Believe me, the questions are being asked. This was a gigantic fail on the part of Metro. If they want real security in the tunnels they need to come off some Benjamins and get armed security in there.
I also ask myself why none of the bystanders got involved either. That's as much of a crime in my book as what thr guards weren't allowed to do.
BigDave
Opt-Out Members
imported post
Watching this video of a young girl or boy for that matter and they hit the ground and continue to be beaten makes me furious to say the least.
It is not in my make up to watch someone being beaten that is unable to defend themselves. The only thing that would hold me back is if I had others with me that needed my protection at that point.
As to those who choose to stand and watch, It would be karma that someday they end up in the same situation while others stood by and watched.
For those who would not intervene, what would it take for you to act? how about if it was the neighbor girl, your niece, best friends daughter, your daughter, wife, mother or should they fend for themselves as well.
Watching this video of a young girl or boy for that matter and they hit the ground and continue to be beaten makes me furious to say the least.
It is not in my make up to watch someone being beaten that is unable to defend themselves. The only thing that would hold me back is if I had others with me that needed my protection at that point.
As to those who choose to stand and watch, It would be karma that someday they end up in the same situation while others stood by and watched.
For those who would not intervene, what would it take for you to act? how about if it was the neighbor girl, your niece, best friends daughter, your daughter, wife, mother or should they fend for themselves as well.
Tawnos
Regular Member
imported post
Bookman wrote:
Don't spin it any other way, when that girl stomped on the head, that was attempted murder, and I don't care if you're 15 or 50, at that point you're going down.
Bookman wrote:
"**** this, I quit" -> jump in and defend the person who is inches away from being ******* murdered by a pissant bitch of a teenager who never learned the first part of being a decent ******* human being.
Don't spin it any other way, when that girl stomped on the head, that was attempted murder, and I don't care if you're 15 or 50, at that point you're going down.
OrangeIsTrouble
Regular Member
imported post
Tawnos wrote:
You can always get another job, but you can't grant another life.
Tawnos wrote:
+1
You can always get another job, but you can't grant another life.
Chris.R.Anderson
Regular Member
imported post
Poosharker wrote:
+1 to you both!
CRA
Poosharker wrote:
+1 to you both!
CRA
.45ACPaddy
Regular Member
imported post
Had someone jumped in to save one person from getting jumped by four others, regardless of age, I think it would be easily defendable in court.
I would have jumped in and done whatever was necessary to stop the beating, which could have been anything from yelling "HEY!" to wedging myself between them to actually physically distancing them from the victim, or more. It was a life threatening situation, the brain doesn't like blunt force trauma.
Had someone jumped in to save one person from getting jumped by four others, regardless of age, I think it would be easily defendable in court.
I would have jumped in and done whatever was necessary to stop the beating, which could have been anything from yelling "HEY!" to wedging myself between them to actually physically distancing them from the victim, or more. It was a life threatening situation, the brain doesn't like blunt force trauma.
swatspyder
Regular Member
imported post
Poosharker wrote:
Risk versus reward, you weigh each side. Reward being "good", risk being "bad."
Poosharker wrote:
I think you have mistaken reward as monetary value.
Risk versus reward, you weigh each side. Reward being "good", risk being "bad."
OrangeIsTrouble
Regular Member
imported post
swatspyder wrote:
And one of the reasons for carrying a gun is because...when seconds matter...police are minutes away, correct?
You said you would only call 911, what good would that do?
It doesn't take long to smash a human beings skull in.
How would you have walked off from that?
"She's not family, or a friend, so it doesn't matter that I watched her get stomped on and didn't try to stop it"
What good does this do to let the public know, that gun owners yak about protecting ourselves by arming ourselves all day, but won't go out of their way to help someone in need? You're just as bad as the anti's who want to disarm The People.
swatspyder wrote:
It's funny how you carry a gun on your side.
And one of the reasons for carrying a gun is because...when seconds matter...police are minutes away, correct?
You said you would only call 911, what good would that do?
It doesn't take long to smash a human beings skull in.
How would you have walked off from that?
"She's not family, or a friend, so it doesn't matter that I watched her get stomped on and didn't try to stop it"
What good does this do to let the public know, that gun owners yak about protecting ourselves by arming ourselves all day, but won't go out of their way to help someone in need? You're just as bad as the anti's who want to disarm The People.
swatspyder
Regular Member
imported post
Poosharker wrote:
Poosharker wrote:
This is the reason why the second amendment is worded how it is. EVERYONE should be able to protect themselves with a firearm. It doesn't matter what age or gender or race or skill level. I DO NOT have training and LEGAL backing, to protect another citizen. Police are pretty much guaranteed that even when they screw up, they are mostly protected. That happens to me, you can pretty much bet that I will be thousands in debt trying to fight civil lawsuits against me.
OrangeIsTrouble
Regular Member
imported post
swatspyder wrote:
But then again, debt vs a human close to dying. I am sure if she were to die her parents could just make another one right?
swatspyder wrote:
I am sure, after a judge watches the video of that girl getting her head smashed in, and you coming in to help her, you will not be the bad guy there.
But then again, debt vs a human close to dying. I am sure if she were to die her parents could just make another one right?
Bookman
Campaign Veteran
imported post
I really feel that I must apologize for my former remarks. At the time I hadn't had the opportunity to watch the video. Having seen it I can see where the guards definitely blew it.
They could have surrounded the victim and prevented further attack after the initial altercation.
They really could have made a citizen's arrest as a felony assault was being committed. The video would have backed them up in court.
As has been said,
"what's right isn't always popular"; witness Open Carry.
I really feel that I must apologize for my former remarks. At the time I hadn't had the opportunity to watch the video. Having seen it I can see where the guards definitely blew it.
They could have surrounded the victim and prevented further attack after the initial altercation.
They really could have made a citizen's arrest as a felony assault was being committed. The video would have backed them up in court.
As has been said,
"what's right isn't always popular"; witness Open Carry.
Aryk45XD
Regular Member
imported post
swatspyder wrote:
I fell asleep when I settled in from work today, but I've been really hot about this! I'm not sure exactly what I would have done personally, but I know I would have done something! Previous encounters have proven me to be a person that will react with equal or greater force. Yes, I do have scars, but I wouldn't give them up for the chance to do any differently. My family knows this and wouldn't have me any other way. While growing up with firearms and always having one in my home. This being said, I have never had a firearm on my side before. I never reached for my knife I've carried in the same place since I was a child, but I knew where it was when I inter-veined and even got attacked back. Luckily I never had to reach for it.
It doesn't take much to at least make the initial effort and change the course of something. Even a push would get the attackers mental state to change. You can see in the video when she looks up and sees security tapping her she stops. Yes, she comes back, but I'll get to that. The initial action will also effect onlookers mental state and they may or may not rush to aid. Either in holding the attacker off or aiding the victim. I don't know this for sure, but I believe in this, hopefully not in sin.
Now comes the firearm. This is probably the wrong thing to do, but I invite all other thoughts on how wrong I am when I make the decision to put myself at risk. In my mind I probably would shove that little bitch hard enough to make her think twice about doing anything but run away. Then ready my hand to pull my gun and announce I have a firearm. Then wait and see what happens.
I a lot of good points here. One thing is for sure for me. I've made a lot of promises and tried everything in my power to keep them. I've made very few Oaths and I plan on keeping it. I know I would die fighting for what I believe is the right of all humans. This I swore. "in front of the United States flag" to "to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic". Although I'm not in the service anymore, it doesn't make me any less American, being mostly American Indian on top of this. I will definitely fight for any person not able to defend themselves from a senseless attack on their life on our soil. I just wish I could believe the others would do the same for me now. IMO
Please delete picture... or let me know how. Anyway, I've adjusted the trace since shooting this pic.
swatspyder wrote:
I'll give a +1 to Swat for that.
I fell asleep when I settled in from work today, but I've been really hot about this! I'm not sure exactly what I would have done personally, but I know I would have done something! Previous encounters have proven me to be a person that will react with equal or greater force. Yes, I do have scars, but I wouldn't give them up for the chance to do any differently. My family knows this and wouldn't have me any other way. While growing up with firearms and always having one in my home. This being said, I have never had a firearm on my side before. I never reached for my knife I've carried in the same place since I was a child, but I knew where it was when I inter-veined and even got attacked back. Luckily I never had to reach for it.
It doesn't take much to at least make the initial effort and change the course of something. Even a push would get the attackers mental state to change. You can see in the video when she looks up and sees security tapping her she stops. Yes, she comes back, but I'll get to that. The initial action will also effect onlookers mental state and they may or may not rush to aid. Either in holding the attacker off or aiding the victim. I don't know this for sure, but I believe in this, hopefully not in sin.
Now comes the firearm. This is probably the wrong thing to do, but I invite all other thoughts on how wrong I am when I make the decision to put myself at risk. In my mind I probably would shove that little bitch hard enough to make her think twice about doing anything but run away. Then ready my hand to pull my gun and announce I have a firearm. Then wait and see what happens.
I a lot of good points here. One thing is for sure for me. I've made a lot of promises and tried everything in my power to keep them. I've made very few Oaths and I plan on keeping it. I know I would die fighting for what I believe is the right of all humans. This I swore. "in front of the United States flag" to "to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic". Although I'm not in the service anymore, it doesn't make me any less American, being mostly American Indian on top of this. I will definitely fight for any person not able to defend themselves from a senseless attack on their life on our soil. I just wish I could believe the others would do the same for me now. IMO
Please delete picture... or let me know how. Anyway, I've adjusted the trace since shooting this pic.
Charles Paul Lincoln
Regular Member
imported post
swatspyder wrote:
What I read from your posts is you are:
This was a brutal attack on a young woman crying for help. Any man who was within sight or earshot of this incident and didn't intervene is, as Poo correctly noted, a pussy.
Charles
swatspyder wrote:
Your comments in several posts illustrate that you are an example of why our society is going down the toilet. Too many "males" these days don't have what it takes to be a "man" -- this country was founded on men who stood up for what is right and fair, no matter the possible personal consequences. The community took care of itself, watched over its own, called the police to make the official arrest. THAT is why there is still citizens arrest in 49 states -- because we have a long-recognized moral duty as men to step in and protect children, women, and the defenseless.
What I read from your posts is you are:
- self-centered -- all of your arguments for inaction are focused on you, and not the victim
- spineless -- inaction due to fear of lawsuit is the height of cowardice
- selfish -- you have yours (gun), and you're not going to share or help others
- immature -- you lack the wisdom of age that teaches the value of life vs. money
This was a brutal attack on a young woman crying for help. Any man who was within sight or earshot of this incident and didn't intervene is, as Poo correctly noted, a pussy.
Charles
Aryk45XD
Regular Member
imported post
Another thing. I'm pretty damn sure the public wouldn't let these guys get fired and do nothing about it. The press would be all over that and they would definitely not be out of work. They may even get a better paying job than that crap! This is what kind of security you get for minimum wage. Blah blah blah. How the hell can you even wear a security uniform and be allowed to not do anything. The false sense of security in our city is very much alive and it sickens me.
Another thing. I'm pretty damn sure the public wouldn't let these guys get fired and do nothing about it. The press would be all over that and they would definitely not be out of work. They may even get a better paying job than that crap! This is what kind of security you get for minimum wage. Blah blah blah. How the hell can you even wear a security uniform and be allowed to not do anything. The false sense of security in our city is very much alive and it sickens me.
Aryk45XD
Regular Member
imported post
I think if Swat had it his way, his 15yr old daughter would have a gun. I completely disagree with his thoughts of doing nothing. But I do believe that firearms should be regarded as a necessity in the responsible household and safe handling should be second nature to us from childhood. Unfortunately our citizens and legal system doesn't always see it in black and white and just having a firearm in the streets could bring harassment or legal action right now. I completely disagree with this too, but things are the way they are and the way to change something is from the root of the source. If there was no legal consequence or fear that doing something might be the wrong thing to do things might be different. Until the United States as a whole can be completely on the side of a person trying to do the right thing, you can't really fault someone for being a pussy.
I think if Swat had it his way, his 15yr old daughter would have a gun. I completely disagree with his thoughts of doing nothing. But I do believe that firearms should be regarded as a necessity in the responsible household and safe handling should be second nature to us from childhood. Unfortunately our citizens and legal system doesn't always see it in black and white and just having a firearm in the streets could bring harassment or legal action right now. I completely disagree with this too, but things are the way they are and the way to change something is from the root of the source. If there was no legal consequence or fear that doing something might be the wrong thing to do things might be different. Until the United States as a whole can be completely on the side of a person trying to do the right thing, you can't really fault someone for being a pussy.
olypendrew
Regular Member
imported post
What exactly would you all have done to defend the victim? One poster said he would shoot the aggressor, but most posters have indicated simply that they would do something, or intervene.
What should one guy, with or without a gun, do in this situation to protect the victim, but minimize the risk to himself?
What exactly would you all have done to defend the victim? One poster said he would shoot the aggressor, but most posters have indicated simply that they would do something, or intervene.
What should one guy, with or without a gun, do in this situation to protect the victim, but minimize the risk to himself?