Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations After Trayvon Martin Shooting

[zack991]

Trayvon Martin shooting: Witnesses changed stories ahead of Zimmerman trial

If he has a smart attorney he will push for the charges to be dismissed due to the prosecutions unreliable witness statements. These people shouldn't even be considered "witnesses" if they didn't actually witness anything. Every single one of them are discredited now.

 

[carracer]

What, do you suppose, was the incentive to change their stories?

 

[Shoobee]

Trayvon Martin shooting: Witnesses changed stories ahead of Zimmerman trial

I don't see anything too unusual about these reports. Witnesses always tend to forget things as time passes.

Usually their initial impressions are the more correct.

It will likely be close to another year before this goes to trial, and by then all the witness will have forgotten most of what they actually saw.

That's why a speedy trial always makes more sense than putting it off.

The burden of proof is always going to be more difficult for the prosecution.

So far you have a beat up adult and a dead youth. It sounds like a mugging on its surface.

The issue will be "proportional response" and in this case the response may have been proportional.

The various shooting courses teach civilians to shoot center mass, and that is what Z did. Can't really blame him for that. There will likely be expert testimony to this effect.

 

[Redbaron007]

Let's think about this a little deeper; how does the disqualification of these witness' help the prosecution?

Does it help the prosecuters case without the witnesses? Most of what I have read indicates, the witnesses validated Zs story somewhat. Now with these witnesses discredited, does that hurt Zs case and allow the prosecuter one less hurdle to overcome? Interesting move.

 

[Beretta92FSLady]

If he has a smart attorney he will push for the charges to be dismissed due to the prosecutions unreliable witness statements. These people shouldn't even be considered "witnesses" if they didn't actually witness anything. Every single one of them are discredited now.

It is interesting that the article states:

"Four witnesses in the Trayvon Martin case have changed their stories, some "in ways that may damage" George Zimmerman, the Orlando Sentinel reports." http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout...change-stories-ahead-zimmerman-133743219.html

It appears that who it will actually damage is the Prosecution. The people who write these f*cking articles are...anyhoo!

I know there was a lot of political pressure on the prosecutor--at least the perception of political pressure: MSNBC running program after program about a Caucasian shooting a Negro teenager who had Skittles, and an ice-tea. The unfortunate thing other than Zimmerman being charged for Second Degree Murder, which will not hold-up, is that the prosecutor gets to run someone through the legal ringer with impunity.

Two prominent U.S. lawyers are among the skeptics questioning whether evidence in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin supports the second-degree murder charge against George Zimmerman, given the confessed shooter's apparent injuries and freshly released eyewitness accounts. "There is no second-degree murder evidence in this case," Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz said. "It's a very close case."
... "I'd rather play the defense than the prosecutor, because there's no way you get a murder-two conviction," journalist-attorney Geraldo Rivera said on Fox News' "The O'Reilly Factor" last week. http://gma.yahoo.com/george-zimmerman-case-charges-dropped-080020734--abc-news-topstories.html

I was shocked to hear that Zimmerman was charged with Second Degree Murder. At the most I seen a Voluntary Manslaughter, that is, before the photos of Zimmerman all messed up came out, and now I don't see Murder-anything. I see Zimmerman lucky to be alive.

 

[Redbaron007]

According to records released last week in the second-degree murder case, the witnesses—all of them neighbors—were interviewed multiple times by police and special prosecutors about what they saw on Feb. 26, the night Zimmerman fatally shot Martin in Sanford, Fla.

This is what makes me think it was intentional for the prosecuter to harrass the witnesses, of course, after they have seen the news and slanted coverages. On the surface, it looks like it puts the presecution in a bit of a bind, but does it? Like I mentioned earlier, if they become discredited, now the prosecution doesn't have to deal with their testimonies, another hurdle to remove. Just thinking out loud.

 

[Shoobee]

It is interesting that the article states:
It appears that who it will actually damage is the Prosecution. The people who write these f*cking articles are...anyhoo!

I know there was a lot of political pressure on the prosecutor--at least the perception of political pressure: MSNBC running program after program about a Caucasian shooting a Negro teenager who had Skittles, and an ice-tea. The unfortunate thing other than Zimmerman being charged for Second Degree Murder, which will not hold-up, is that the prosecutor gets to run someone through the legal ringer with impunity.

I was shocked to hear that Zimmerman was charged with Second Degree Murder. At the most I seen a Voluntary Manslaughter, that is, before the photos of Zimmerman all messed up came out, and now I don't see Murder-anything. I see Zimmerman lucky to be alive.

I agree with you about the manslaughter part. At worst, this is what Z committed with by his mistakes.

With proof in the photos of the pommelling he got, and no bruises on M other than a single gunshot wound to the heart, things look better for Z now.

Although I disagree with most of what Z did, he not being a very savvy neighborhood watch participant, it does appear that he was only defending himself when he shot M, who is an athlete, and apparently very good at breaking peoples noses.

 

[Beretta92FSLady]

This is what makes me think it was intentional for the prosecuter to harrass the witnesses, of course, after they have seen the news and slanted coverages. On the surface, it looks like it puts the presecution in a bit of a bind, but does it? Like I mentioned earlier, if they become discredited, now the prosecution doesn't have to deal with their testimonies, another hurdle to remove. Just thinking out loud.

That's a bigger issue for the prosecution. The there is no person that seen what happened but Zimmerman. It appears the prosecution has put some pressure on a few witnesses, and that works bad bad bad for the prosecution no matter how you look at it.

One of the witnesses states that martin was on-top of Zimmerman, and now the witness basically states that they weren't sure, which means they didn't see what actually happened. I see this all benefiting Zimmerman.

 

[Beretta92FSLady]

[snippers] apparently very good at breaking peoples noses.

Not anymore.

 

[Redbaron007]

That's a bigger issue for the prosecution. The there is no person that seen what happened but Zimmerman. It appears the prosecution has put some pressure on a few witnesses, and that works bad bad bad for the prosecution no matter how you look at it.

One of the witnesses states that martin was on-top of Zimmerman, and now the witness basically states that they weren't sure, which means they didn't see what actually happened. I see this all benefiting Zimmerman.

I guess the question is: With the witnesses initial story, did it help Z or the prosecution? IMHO, the witnesses story validated Z more than the prosecution. So with that said, I think it hurts Z, unless their initial stories were prosecution leaning. But from what I have read, I would say they leaned to Zs side.

Depending on what the 'girlfriend's' story is, it is Zs against the girlfriend and 911 info; then of course you have all the physical evidence.

I still don't think it is 2nd murder material, but will potentially solidify manslaughter, if the jury is given that option. My personal preference is for the judge to through it all out on the SYG law before it goes to a trial.

 

[Shoobee]

Not anymore.

It's really too bad the kid got cut down before he was apparently able to develop some kind of respect for adults.

Sometimes kids straighten up, and other times they don't.

It's also too bad that Z was so grossly unprepared to deal with a troublesome kid, other than to shoot him through the heart.

If Z is found guilty of manslaughter this will be why.

 

[Shoobee]

I guess the question is: With the witnesses initial story, did it help Z or the prosecution? IMHO, the witnesses story validated Z more than the prosecution. So with that said, I think it hurts Z, unless their initial stories were prosecution leaning. But from what I have read, I would say they leaned to Zs side.

Depending on what the 'girlfriend's' story is, it is Zs against the girlfriend and 911 info; then of course you have all the physical evidence.

I still don't think it is 2nd murder material, but will potentially solidify manslaughter, if the jury is given that option. My personal preference is for the judge to through it all out on the SYG law before it goes to a trial.

The prosecution is going to paint a profiling stalker story, and the defense is going to paint a vigilant community resident story, and whichever one sells the jury is going to win the day.

Could also have some rioting nationwide afterwards too, especially in the predominantly black areas of Miami, Atlanta, NYC, Philadelphia, Chicago, Houston, Los Angeles and Oakland. Everyone needs be beware and take precautions.

 

[MamabearCali]

It's really too bad the kid got cut down before he was apparently able to develop some kind of respect for adults.

Sometimes kids straighten up, and other times they don't.

It's also too bad that Z was so grossly unprepared to deal with a troublesome kid, other than to shoot him through the heart.

If Z is found guilty of manslaughter this will be why.

I wish Martin did not have to die, it is sad.

HOWEVER I must disagree....This was not a troublesome kid (12 years old throwing rocks at playground equipment), this was full grown nearly adult man beating another person's head on the sidewalk......I don't know how anyone deals with that unless they have peppers spray or a gun. Zimmerman had a gun luckily for him. Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

 

[Shoobee]

I wish Martin did not have to die, it is sad.

HOWEVER I must disagree....This was not a troublesome kid (12 years old throwing rocks at playground equipment), this was full grown nearly adult man beating another person's head on the sidewalk......I don't know how anyone deals with that unless they have peppers spray or a gun. Zimmerman had a gun luckily for him. Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

Not everyone agrees with you. That is the issue.

 

[Beretta92FSLady]

Not everyone agrees with you. That is the issue.

You should be more specific, there were a number of things she outlined in her post.

Do you not agree with it being better to be judged by twelve than carried by six?

Do you not agree that martin was a young man, albeit 17, but he didn't look 17, and in cases like this, perception is everything.

Do you not agree that it is unfortunate that Martin died?

I question how relevant Martin's age really is. Considering his stature, and his appearance, Zimmerman seen a man about the same age as him. Do we fault Zimmerman for shooting a young man when the young man looks like an older man? Martin;s age, as I stated, is irrelevant; just an attempt to pull at the heart-strings of certain individuals. Martin was hardly the scrawny teenager the media has been depicting him as.

 

[Grapeshot]

I wish Martin did not have to die, it is sad.

HOWEVER I must disagree....This was not a troublesome kid (12 years old throwing rocks at playground equipment), this was full grown nearly adult man beating another person's head on the sidewalk......I don't know how anyone deals with that unless they have peppers spray or a gun. Zimmerman had a gun luckily for him. Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

Not everyone agrees with you. That is the issue.

You are right. Some arm chair jurists make a case out of their feelings, emotions and what might have happened. Others subscribe to the dicta that the merits of this case should lie wholly within the facts as they are made evident by and to the court.

I believe that it is entirely possible that the judge may consider all preliminary arguments then dismiss the case against Z. We shall see.

 

[Beretta92FSLady]

[snippers]
I believe that it is entirely possible that the judge may consider all preliminary arguments then dismiss the case against Z. We shall see.

Yea, but the time between the dismissal is a pain in the butt. I hope Zimmerman stays away from the booze, drinks plenty of water, gets plenty of sleep. I ended-up with chronic heartburn after my incident. Hopefully he is exercising, and trying to keep himself preoccupied with constructive living.

 

[Animus]

Martin was hardly the scrawny teenager the media has been depicting him as.

160 at 6' is definitely scrawny, just somewhat tall and scrawny.

 

[hjmoosejaw]

Personally, the first thing that came to mind for me after reading about the witnesses changing their minds is that, I think they gave the cops their most reliable accounts of what they saw and heard the night it happened, or the next day or whatever. But after thinking about it, and knowing the uproar it has caused around the country, they are in fear of their lives and well being. I imagine that if Z is acquitted, their relatively safe and quiet neighborhood may become a war zone. People are not going to love those witnesses if he is released because of their testimony according to how they first said it all happened. Just a thought.

 

[twoskinsonemanns]

It's really too bad the kid got cut down...
It's also too bad that Z was so grossly unprepared to deal with a troublesome kid, other than to shoot him through the heart.

Z is in real danger of being convicted based solely on the bias dished out by the media and swallowed up by potential jurors.
See the above statement. No set of facts will change such a view. I fear too many jurors have already convicted before they are even selected.