Central Missouri Copblocker Jeffrey Weinhaus Shot by MO St. Patrol Employee(s)

eye95 · Nov 5, 2013

KBCraig said:
...All the available video, audio, and documents can be found here: http://www.copblock.org/20857/jeffreyweinhaus/

That is a blog. If relevant documents are in there, they are well buried. Are the police reports in there? Witness statements? Trial transcript? Were recording devices running in the cruisers? The cop says he put the gun back in the holster. Were there fingerprint reports that substantiated or refuted his claim?

Even a stupid jury has to have something to hang their hat on. (Remember, "If it does not fit, you must acquit"?) So, even if their judgment is horrifically wrong, where it the one bit they needed to jump to an errant conclusion?

Any links to raw data? Thank you to the poster who linked the full video. That's the kind of raw data we should all be seeking, not opinion and blogs.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

OC for ME · Nov 5, 2013

Grapeshot said:
fuq:

PS - don't know why formatting is dropping most capitalization.

it's a missouri thing, we don't concern ourselves with proper capitalization too Much.

The appeal process, if any, will likely provide more answers, or not. The verdict just came in and I guess it takes some time to post the courtroom related information. I continue to contend that the cops who shot the perp should not be investigated by their own department (Troop). But, that is all water under the bridge at this point.

Two cops are (were) the in charge of preserving "crime scene" evidence, a crime scene they assisted in making. I suspect that there is just enough doubt remaining to chalk this case up to "Don't meet cops you accuse of criminal acts away from a very public and crowded location.....oh, and get better recording stuff."

sudden valley gunner · Nov 5, 2013

Primus said:
+1

Tough to do with the bashing that usually occurs. I must commend this forum and it's owners because it's not over the top anti-leo/.gov. With that being said, it's tough to change minds with some of the tactics being used. Especially on the leos who are unfamiliar with some of the intricacies of state/federal law. Add that with some guys who refuse to cooperate (like this guy did), then you can and do have a bad outcome. Bad on the LEOs for not knowing and researching on their own and bad on the OC/CC for sometimes inflaming the situation. Sucks to see people get hurt on either side.

Code word for refused to comply.

Was the orders lawful? If not the victim, has a lawful right and in many eyes a duty to refuse to comply.

Brent Hartman · Nov 5, 2013

One thing that I found interesting is that the camera was on the face of his wristwatch. I'm trying to figure out how the video caught the cops shooting him if he was reaching for his gun.

rmansu2 · Nov 5, 2013

Brent Hartman said:
One thing that I found interesting is that the camera was on the face of his wristwatch. I'm trying to figure out how the video caught the cops shooting him if he was reaching for his gun.

The first thing I did when I saw this topic was watch the video. That said, I heard "you're gonna have to shoot me." That is of no concern as to what happened. He did not make a threat to the cop.

After watching the video, I've read everyone's response wondering the same thing you mentioned. Does anyone know if he is right or left handed? If he's right handed there is no way he went for his gun from the video evidence.

It is however entirely possible, if left handed he went for it. BUT, I don't think the video even supports that. If you think about the typical upper body movements when you draw from a holster, I would think the video would have had a prominent movement prior to the officer shooting him which I did not see.

Any thoughts?

eye95 · Nov 5, 2013

Most people wear their watch on their non-gun hand.

BrianB · Nov 5, 2013

I'm right handed. On the very rare occasion that I wear a watch I wear it on my left wrist. If I had a "spy watch" recording when I went to draw on someone, you would see the person I intend to shoot upside down in the frame as I brought my support side hand to my abdomen and my strong side hand to my gun.

KBCraig · Nov 6, 2013

eye95 said:
That is a blog. If relevant documents are in there, they are well buried. Are the police reports in there? Witness statements? Trial transcript?

Yes. And your inability to recognize and read clearly highlighted links within the text of that blog is your failing, not mine.

Oh, wait... maybe this is an "Alabama moment", where you refuse to even visit the link because you've had a tiff with someone.

OC for ME · Nov 6, 2013

sudden valley gunner said:
Code word for refused to comply.

Was the orders lawful? If not the victim, has a lawful right and in many eyes a duty to refuse to comply.

Irrelevant.

In Missouri we have no lawful "right" to resist a unlawful arrest.

The cops had a arrest warrant and were serving it, Jeffrey Weinhaus resisted arrest by not complying with the orders of those two cops. Does that noncompliance rise to the level of justifying lethal force by the cops? The jury seems to think so because they believe the cops that Jeffrey Weinhaus pulled a gun while resisting arrest.

Brent Hartman · Nov 6, 2013

OC for ME said:
Irrelevant.

In Missouri we have no lawful "right" to resist a unlawful arrest.

http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.htm

OC for ME · Nov 6, 2013

Mr. Brent Hartman,

Research our state's laws before you pop-off crap that could get a Missouri citizen, who is less than educated, in very deep legal trouble, or killed in the worst case.

RSMo 575.150.4. It is no defense to a prosecution pursuant to subsection 1 of this section that the law enforcement officer was acting unlawfully in making the arrest. However, nothing in this section shall be construed to bar civil suits for unlawful arrest.

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5750000150.HTM

Most folks would have asked for a cite. I have cited RSMo 575.150 too many times to count at this point. Cuz some folks around here spout crap about resisting unlawful arrests. Good way to get shot.

Brent Hartman · Nov 6, 2013

OC for ME said:
Mr. Brent Hartman,

Research our state's laws before you pop-off crap that could get a Missouri citizen, who is less than educated, in very deep legal trouble, or killed in the worst case.

Most folks would have asked for a cite. I have cited RSMo 575.150 too many times to count at this point. Cuz some folks around here spout crap about resisting unlawful arrests. Good way to get shot.

What "crap" did I post? Show me the objectionable parts.

OC for ME · Nov 6, 2013

This crap:

[SIZE=+2]Your Right of Defense Against Unlawful Arrest

What you linked to cannot be disputed. That listing of cases are state specific. It does apply in those states that do not have a statute such as RSMo 575.150.

Please qualify your crap when you post crap. I am not disagreeing with the premise, in fact I wish RSMo575.150 did not prohibit resiting a obviously unlawful arrest, but here on OCDO we advocate for the law abiding. In MO what you posted does not apply until we can work to change the law(s) that infringe upon our rights.

Educate and inform, care is required because we are not debating and discussing in a Cone of Silence, others read and contemplate. In MO this is a far greater service to our fellow Missourians.
[/SIZE]

Brent Hartman · Nov 6, 2013

OC for ME said:
This crap:

[SIZE=+2]Your Right of Defense Against Unlawful Arrest

What you linked to cannot be disputed. That listing of cases are state specific. It does apply in those states that do not have a statute such as RSMo 575.150.

Please qualify your crap when you post crap. I am not disagreeing with the premise, in fact I wish RSMo575.150 did not prohibit resiting a obviously unlawful arrest, but here on OCDO we advocate for the law abiding. In MO what you posted does not apply until we can work to change the law(s) that infringe upon our rights.

Educate and inform, care is required because we are not debating and discussing in a Cone of Silence, others read and contemplate. In MO this is a far greater service to our fellow Missourians.
[/SIZE]

So case law from the SCOTUS is not relevant to the discusion, or to Missouri law?

OC for ME · Nov 7, 2013

Brent Hartman said:
So case law from the SCOTUS is not relevant to the discusion, or to Missouri law?

To the discussion, academically speaking, yes. To the current statute, no. I wish it were not so, but it is what it is.

If case law mattered (which it should) the legislature would have fixed the law, they have not done so. Also, I am confident that there have been a few claims of false (unlawful) arrest in Missouri and yet the statute remains as is. Has there been a challenge in court? I don't know and I certainly do not desire to be the citizen who must challenge the law.

If your are subject to a unlawful arrest go ahead and resist. Your test case will be a good read. Your near certain victory, based on SCOTUS case law will certainly fix the RSMo575.150.4.....if you prevail that is.

Brent Hartman · Nov 7, 2013

OC for ME said:
To the discussion, academically speaking, yes.

So I merely post a link, which you acknowledge, "academically speaking", is relavant to the conversation, and you respond in the following manner:

"Research our state's laws before you pop-off crap..."

"Cuz some folks around here spout crap about resisting unlawful arrests."

"Please qualify your crap when you post crap."

I've heard people say that they no longer like visiting OCDO. I can't imagine why. lol

OC for ME · Nov 7, 2013

Mr. Brent Hartman,

The topic of resisting a unlawful arrest is a very well worn topic here on OCDO. A Missouri citizen who resists arrest will be in serious legal and physical peril. Note the consequences of Weinhaus resisting his arrest.

Contrasting those case with Missouri law adds to the academic discussion.

We here on OCDO advocate for the law abiding citizen to follow the law. That is not a academic issue, it is a rule of this forum. You did not advocate one way or the other, you just dropped a bunch of irrelevant court cases into the discussion of the Weinhaus incident. Those court cases have zero bearing on this thread given the language of 575.150.4 and that is why I called those court cases crap.

You are certainly free to visit OCDO or not.

Brent Hartman · Nov 7, 2013

OC for ME said:
A Missouri citizen who resists arrest will be in serious legal and physical peril...crap.

A citizen of any state in the "land of the free" puts themselves in peril by resisting arrest. That's why most people behave like good little slaves.

Don't worry. I'll stick around. I've never been one to let bullies run me off.

By the way, at what point was Weinhaus placed under arrest?

Brent Hartman · Nov 7, 2013

sudden valley gunner said:
Code word for refused to comply.

Was the orders lawful? If not the victim, has a lawful right and in many eyes a duty to refuse to comply.

Of course, that requires courage, and a willingness to sacrifice your life. As Patrick Henry so eloquently stated, "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"

protias · Jan 3, 2014

[video=youtube;PO-I5Jlx4xE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO-I5Jlx4xE[/video]

Central Missouri Copblocker Jeffrey Weinhaus Shot by MO St. Patrol Employee(s)

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