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GA Police Define Walmart as "Publilc Gathering"

Zipakna

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i agree, but the reason that the permits exist is because people would claim "peacefull protest" and it end up being a Mob Riot. its simply a means to control the situtation "in writ" in the event police need to put on riot gear and start thumping heads, everything is documented.



there are exemptions to the permit for public gathering, that would be a high school football game and things of that nature (school).

in walmarts case, it could apply IF walmart was only allowing School staff and students (and there parents)at that time to enter the store for school supplies, basically that wallmart for that time is a "School Function". but that wasnt the case
 

ilbob

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Zipakna wrote:
i agree, but the reason that the permits exist is because people would claim "peacefull protest" and it end up being a Mob Riot. its simply a means to control the situtation "in writ" in the event police need to put on riot gear and start thumping heads, everything is documented.

how does getting a permit to peacefully assemble prevent a riot?
 

khatores

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AbsolutZer0 wrote:
Read the laws on Electoral College. The Popular Vote means nothing, nada zip.
THEY will continue to pass the same flawed laws (why always so many laws? Every day there is a new law!) Politician is the Job that keeps itself.

How bout this: No NEW laws! I think about 90% of them need to be repealed anyway. Bit by bit they are eroding freedoms. Go ahead let them pass another law: You'll lose another freedom. Why do these laws restrict freedom? Saftey? Security? They are SECOND to freedom, read the federalist papers!

Give me liberty or give me death! Wisest words ever spoken.

As for the government feeling that we can't watch what we say or do: The idea of CURSE words is a MORAL Dilemma, not a matter of law. Yet those words cannot be spoken on public television as a course of legislation.
Is that freedom? Someone elses morality made into law? THINK.

"The system is flawed but it's the best we got", we have been saying it for fifty years and it only gets worse but thats okay because voting will change things. Wouldn't it be nice if we wrote a constitution that included inalienable rights? Rights the government could never take away?

Zero,
I share many of your frustrations, especially relating to gun control. I favor licensed, open and concealed carry with less of the existing red tape that makes it such a hassle in Florida. As a gun owner, I am well aware of the stigma associated with firearms, and how people perceive them and the people that use them so inaccurately, as "gun nuts" or worse.

I am also an elected official in northeast Florida. Many people like to air their frustrations at times of high emotion, but rarely will mount a sustained, well-organized campaign over a length of time to exact lasting change. Political leaders are only human; issues that resonate with people, or are part of the normal order of business, get first priority. But, although there is of course a motive for self-promotion (it's par for the course), most people who get involved in politics actually do want to do something worthwhile. Otherwise, it's hard to stay focused - it's not a terribly exciting job. Try sitting through a three-hour zoning meeting and see if you're bouncing off the walls with inspiration. :D

People often feel less-than-excited about going to meetings every month to express their ideas to a political crowd; they may get discouraged by setbacks, and it's really easy to believe that your words have no meaning, as you stand looking at a bunch of bland-faced people in a council chamber, and some guy with a clock tells you that your time is up.

Don't be discouraged - it takes a while, but change can and does happen. Here in FL, Jeb Bush signed a bill into law just the other day to allow CCW in state parks, and earlier this year, a self-defence law that gives victims many more rights when fighting attackers. None of this was easy; it required lobbying and persuasion. But, it did happen - and, it happened in one of the most populous states in the nation.

Bottom line is, you won't get anything done just steaming. Support the legislators you know support your cause - campaign for them, donate money, play the game. Try to persuade skeptics, but don't call them demon spawn; win them over to your side with irrefutable facts, and be nice. Most people are good people, even lawyer-politicans. Most of all, don't hurt your own cause by coming off as a crusading proselytizer. People will automatically draw back. Be cool and well-reasoned, and people will listen to you. :)
 

John Pierce

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Khatores,

Great summary of working within the system. Welcome aboard!
 

AbsolutZer0

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You right LBob. We shouldn't need permission to assemble on any public place armed or unarmed. Having weapons is not a statement of intent. The law treats it that way but that is just not the case, this is the fault of the cowardly liberals.
 

AbsolutZer0

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khatores

Support MY legislators? I don't have anyone except Ron Paul protecting my god given rights.

The system has failed time ana again. Many of us are sick of the system and working within it, especially when it has been engineered to work against us. Politicians have become a class of their own, they are not to be encouraged or trusted. You keep on making new laws, zoning is one such example of beuracracy at its best.

You just keep on filing the paper work and writing off your freedom.
 

khatores

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AbsolutZer0 wrote:
khatores

Support MY legislators? I don't have anyone except Ron Paul protecting my god given rights.

The system has failed time ana again. Many of us are sick of the system and working within it, especially when it has been engineered to work against us. Politicians have become a class of their own, they are not to be encouraged or trusted. You keep on making new laws, zoning is one such example of beuracracy at its best.

You just keep on filing the paper work and writing off your freedom.

I think we're making progress in FL -
a11a_guns_0608.html
our governor recently signed six of the proposed seven pro-gun bills into law. Read here: http://www.palmbeachpost.com/politics/content/state/epaper/2006/06/08/a11a_guns_0608.html

TALLAHASSEE — Gun advocates, one of the most powerful lobbies in the nation, scored six out of seven wins this legislative session, including new laws that will allow guns in state parks, make it easier for hunters and fishermen to register to vote and make the names of concealed weapons permit holders secret.


We also won on CCW anonymity, before it even has become a major issue.

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/06/16/Business/Gun_owners_welcome_an.shtml

Starting two weeks from today , the public will have no choice but to wonder whether bosses, neighbors or politicians are packing heat. Thanks to a bill passed by the Legislature and signed by Gov. Jeb Bush this month, the identity of concealed weapon permit holders will become exempt from the state’s public records law July 1.


• Require the state to set aside a minimum numbers of acres for hunting.
• Allow guns in national forests and state parks by repealing a current law and rule banning them.
• Prohibit the governor from ordering the seizure of firearms during a state of emergency or natural disaster.
• Give an extension to members of the U.S. armed forces who are on active duty and who hold concealed weapons permits to renew the permits by waiving the expiration date and making it valid for up to 180 days after they return home.
• Allow retailers who sell hunting and fishing licenses to provide voter registration applications. The law also gives those seeking licenses by phone or Internet the opportunity to have a voter-registration application mailed to them.

These developments have a lot of gun owners in Florida excited, and shows that real progress can be made in this area, despite the unconstitutional agenda of a few people. It also shows that sometimes, the system works. :)
 

ilbob

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AbsolutZer0 wrote:
khatores

Support MY legislators? I don't have anyone except Ron Paul protecting my god given rights.

The system has failed time ana again. Many of us are sick of the system and working within it, especially when it has been engineered to work against us. Politicians have become a class of their own, they are not to be encouraged or trusted. You keep on making new laws, zoning is one such example of beuracracy at its best.

You just keep on filing the paper work and writing off your freedom.

I am not sure that is true. Ron Paul is a good guy for gun owners,I am not so sure about other areas though.

Most gun issues are really state legislature issues. If you want change you work at that level. People are unwilling to commit the time and energy it takes to effect change, and then have theaudacity to complain the system does not work.

The system works, and it always has. The people are often lazy and refuse to do their part in the system. Legislators get too cozy with each other and with special interests inimical to our needs and we end up with bad laws.

I agree that zoning can be a problem. But do you rally want a smelly pig farm or factoryto open up next door to your nice new house? Zoning regulations are developed to try and make these issues manageable up front, and not have to take them on in an ad hoc fashion. Did you ever complain about the zoning regulations when they were being formulated? The people that make these up are often very receptive to public input during the initial process. It is only after the decisions have mostly been made that it is difficult to get them to change things. And that is as it should be.
 

Zipakna

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ilbob wrote:
how does getting a permit to peacefully assemble prevent a riot?
it doesnt prevent anything. its the fact that the applicant(s) claimed peaceful. if the applicant(s) applied under false pretenses all of the actions done under the riot are there responsibility translating into the City/County/State not being held liable for damages bodly harm or death. all the permit is, is a trade off of responsibility.
 

Jared

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Georgia law needs to be changed, with Ohio, they have the worst carry law EVER. The permit is useless. Anywhere you might need a gun is where you can not bring one. They are also the only state that requires a holster. Sorry, but I don't like to carry some of my guns in a holster. I use a holster for my service pistol I do when I carry that off-duty because it has no saftey of any kind on it.

Georgia has an awful CCW law that does not seem to be changing anytime soon. I'd rather have Maryland or California's law then Georgia. The reason being that you are less likely to be attacked or killed then you are for being made a criminal for carrying in a place your not suppose to.

Georgia's law also creates two classes, active duty millitary, LEO's and other government personnel are exempt from the holster requirement and from the places off-limits.

As far as I'm concerned Georgia is not pro-gun, the state gun groups need to drastically change their shall-issue law. If they do not cooperate then vote them out of office. Georgia has a good chance of being able to do this, but I guess no one cares.

As far as these cops are concerned, I would sue them as Walmart could not be defined as a public gathering. Secondly, as a Federal LEO, I have never violated someones rights over a gun. I pulled someone over and he had prior arrests for non-violent offenses. He said he had a pistol next to his seat in his door. My partner and I did not do anything. It turned out that they did not break any law and he was not prohibited from possessing the firearm so we did not hassle him at all about it. I would expect the same treatment from any other LEO, whether local, state, or federal.
 

khatores

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starbuck wrote:
khatores wrote:
I am also an elected official in northeast Florida.

Care to elaborate a little further? I'm in Jacksonville.

I'm on the Soil and Water Conservation Board in Nassau County. Not that that has anything whatsoever to do with guns, but it made the point all the same. :lol: I'm just now sort of getting going politically, but I'd like to eventually pursue a state legislature position.

I've been politically involved for a while and it's become clear to me that there is a significant disconnect between people and their elected officials. Of course, it doesn't help when some people run under a "no compromise - just get it done!" message, which is completely unrealistic. Very few people actually get to make decisions by themselves. You can't just elect one person, however straight-talking they might be, and expect them to magically change everything. Politics is not a Chuck Norris movie.

What's more, elected officials typically have much more on their plate than just the one issue someone is concerned about. Sometimes people misunderstand this as inattention or apathy, but nothing could be further from the truth - it's merely time management. Additionally, parliamentary procedure and political realities sometimes place limitations on what can be realistically done. If there's no pro-gun bills up, or committees are consumed with other things, or some key players are currently occupied with other issues, or the NRA leadership is asleep in FL, then throwing a bill out without strategic foresight might just be a bad idea. Unfortunately, ordinary citizens typically aren't privy to these machinations of their political system, so it might not make sense to them as to why campaign promises aren't being kept, or someone isn't pushing a particular agenda, or whatever.

On the flip side though, people need to support their elected officials and go to meetings once in a while. Get involved and be patient - nothing happens overnight. If it does, you're probably living in Iran.

Ok, that's my rant for tonight. :)
 

PaulB

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I am also an elected official in northeast Florida. Many people like to air their frustrations at times of high emotion, but rarely will mount a sustained, well-organized campaign over a length of time to exact lasting change. Political leaders are only human; issues that resonate with people, or are part of the normal order of business, get first priority. But, although there is of course a motive for self-promotion (it's par for the course), most people who get involved in politics actually do want to do something worthwhile.

The thesis here seems to be that it is the legislator's job to dick with people, and it is the peoples' job to try to stop legislators dicking with them quite so much. That is, if they have any time left out of their busy days trying to put food on the table, etc.

The system works, and it always has. The people are often lazy and refuse to do their part in the system. Legislators get too cozy with each other and with special interests inimical to our needs and we end up with bad laws.

We end up with bad laws, and that is evidence that the system works? :banghead:

I created the Wyoming Liberty Index ( http://www.wyominglibertyindex.info ). One thing I did with it was added a hypothetical legislator who simply voted no on every bill in the session. That hypothetical legislator far surpasses all the real ones, in support of freedom. The reason for this is that the number of bills that harm freedom vastly outnumber the bills that enhance freedom.

The last thing we need is legislators who want to "do something worthwhile". We need legislators to leave us alone. And we need tar and feathers for those who don't.

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
-- C.S. Lewis

BTW, it looks like maybe Georgia ought to be moved into the category of "anomalous concealed carry state" on the opencarry.org map, unless this is turned around.
 

rabbit994

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Most of Georgia's law seem like they were drawn up extremely vague for racist reasons. Historically, many gun controls laws were drawn up vague so police could selective enforce laws against people who "shouldn't" have a gun (blacks, hippies, commies, other "undesirable" people). You couldn't just come out and say that X class of people had guns, you just passed broad restrictions and enforced them against that X class of people.
 

Malum Prohibitum

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pourshot wrote:
I wonder if they got a list of all the folks at the gathering.....Could be a long trial.

There won't be any trial. I spoke with one of the officers, who informed me that the charges were going to be dismissed. So Iwent over to the courthouse myself and confirmed that they had, in fact, been dismissed, and the man's bond had been returned. This stuff is public information, you know.

I first tried to call the local prosecutor to ask about whether it had been dismissed and made it clear that I did not want to know anything that was not public information, but I got some snotty woman (not the actual solicitor but an assistant attorneythat suspiciously had the same last name as one of the officers in the news story) who refused to tell me whether the case had been dismissed, very rudely, I might add. So much for the "public servant" aspect of working in government. I explained that I could get the information another way, and she snapped "Fine."

So, she cost me the time to drive over to the courthouse. The info and parking were free. :)

I hope the rest of you are finished arguing over the "F" word.

Anyway, on this topic, the charges of carrying a deadly weapon to a public gathering were dismissed. In short, WalMart is not a public gathering. Nor does WalMart even attempt to prohibit, using its private property rights, concealed carry on its premises.

Open carry may be another matter. I amnot so sure WalMart would allow that, but it might depend on local management. It still would not result in a conviction on a public gathering charge, but they might ask you to leave in the presence of police officers called there just for the occasion.
 

LilRedDog

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PaulG wrote:
Zero, You may want to read the rules about profanity. Is it really THAT hard to express yourself?

Sorry I'm late to the discussion.

Its really sad, when grown men whine about the words used in a debate..

Its a pathetic fall back, and nit picking. Its censorship, at is evilest. On the word level.

Do notexpect everyone to dismiss what he says, because you have a problem with his vocabulary.



If you do not like what he had to say, debate it, or ignore it, but do not whine the words are too much for you, nor start calling for him to be banned..



You are not superior to him because you do not use certain words. You are repressed because of it.
 
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