New Lothrop passes illegal ordinance June 2010

if i had realized the meeting was last night i would have attended also.

any news on the ordinance?

Yooperlady and I attended New Lothrop's council meeting last night. Their attorney maintains the ordinance meets State law and does not violate MCL 123.1102 because...

It does not address open carry at all...

And the wording allows for those with a CPL to be exempt...

I stated I would research this further... and we left.

Haven't had a chance to delve back into it yet....

Looking at the ordinance as it is posted, it does not violate the law. It simply states you can not carry a CONCEALED firearm or be in a vehicle with a firearm. It states you are exempt of you have a CPL. It is just restating state law. As far as the restrictions on knives, they are allowed to as there is no state preemption.

The village of New Lothrop ordains: Sec. 1. Unlawfully carrying a weapon.
A person Commits the crime of unlawfully carrying a weapon if he knowingly:

a. Carries a knife concealed on or about his person; or

b. Carries a pistol concealed on or about his person; or

c. Carries a knife or pistol whether concealed or not in a vehicle that he is operating or occupying.

d. This Section does not apply to: 1. people who carry at home/business; 2. A person meeting the requirements of Sec 12/12a of Act No. 372 of the Public Acts of 1927, as amended, being Sec. 28.432, and 28.432a of the Compiled Laws of 1948.

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Is it this ordinance?

if so, it would still violate premption as the sections 28.432a and 432 do not exempt michigan cpl holders.

28.432

Sec. 12.

(1) Section 2 does not apply to any of the following:

(a) A police or correctional agency of the United States or of this state or any subdivision of this state.

(b) The United States army, air force, navy, or marine corps.

(c) An organization authorized by law to purchase or receive weapons from the United States or from this state.

(d) The national guard, armed forces reserves, or other duly authorized military organization.

(e) A member of an entity or organization described in subdivisions (a) through (d) for a pistol while engaged in the course of his or her duties with that entity or while going to or returning from those duties.

(f) A United States citizen holding a license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by another state.

(g) The regular and ordinary transportation of a pistol as merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to manufacture firearms or a licensed dealer.

(h) Purchasing, owning, carrying, possessing, using, or transporting an antique firearm. As used in this subdivision, "antique firearm" means that term as defined in section 231a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.231a.

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and 28.432a

28.432a Persons to whom requirements inapplicable; "local corrections officer" defined.

Sec. 12a.

(1) The requirements of this act for obtaining a license to carry a concealed pistol do not apply to any of the following:

(a) A peace officer of a duly authorized police agency of the United States or of this state or a political subdivision of this state, who is regularly employed and paid by the United States or this state or a subdivision of this state, except a township constable.

(b) A constable who is trained and certified under the commission on law enforcement standards act, 1965 PA 203, MCL 28.601 to 28.616, while engaged in his or her official duties or going to or coming from his or her official duties, and who is regularly employed and paid by a political subdivision of this state.

(c) A person regularly employed by the department of corrections and authorized in writing by the director of the department of corrections to carry a concealed pistol during the performance of his or her duties or while going to or returning from his or her duties.

(d) A person regularly employed as a local corrections officer by a county sheriff, who is trained in the use of force and is authorized in writing by the county sheriff to carry a concealed pistol during the performance of his or her duties.

(e) A person regularly employed in a city jail or lockup who has custody of persons detained or incarcerated in the jail or lockup, is trained in the use of force, and is authorized in writing by the chief of police or the county sheriff to carry a concealed pistol during the performance of his or her duties.

(f) A member of the United States army, air force, navy, or marine corps while carrying a concealed pistol in the line of duty.

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if i read this correctly, people who have a cpl from another state could carry in a vehicle in new lothrop, but a michigan cpl holder could not.

Portions of New Lothrop's ordinance...

Section 1. Unlawfully Carrying a Weapon. No person shall commit the crime of unlawfully carrying a weapon. A person commits the crime of unlawfully carrying a weapon if he knowingly:
a. Carries a knife concealed on or about his person; or
b. Carries a pistol concealed on or about his person; or

That, to me, says no person shall commit the crime... then goes on to describe the crime....

Then the ordinance goes on...

d. This Section does not apply to:
(1) A person in his own dwelling or place of business or on property owned or under his control at the time of the act of carrying; or
(2) A person meeting the requirements of Section .12 and .12a of Act No. 372 of the Public Acts of 1927, as amended, being Section 28.432 and 28.432a of the Compiled Laws of 1948.

And I can't find any mention of a person with a Michigan CPL in any of that... if a Michigan CPL were mentioned then that person with a CPL would be exempt... but since it is not mentioned a Michigan CPL does not grant exemption.

Or am I missing something somewhere?

Oh... and please let us not go into the knives or other parts of this ordinance since there is no preemption applicability?

Bikenut said:

Or am I missing something somewhere?

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I read it the same as you. They are in violation of the preemption law because their ordinance indicates even with a michigan cpl, you cannot carry a concealed pistol in new lothrop.

Road Trip anyone? New Lathrop here we come

lapeer20m said:

I read it the same as you. They are in violation of the preemption law because their ordinance indicates even with a michigan cpl, you cannot carry a concealed pistol in new lothrop.

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I say we show up for a weekend stroll Maybe see if some of our biker pals want to get in one last ride before it gets too cool.

I'm in for some Arthur's pizza!:banana:

WARCHILD said:

I'm in for some Arthur's pizza!:banana:

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Never had Arthur's do they make a supreme pizza? They don't have a website but here's a link to the super pages listing for them;

http://mapserver.superpages.com//ma...2.8081.1284081079508.192322727&spad=yes&TR=50

Yep.... all their pizza's are awesome...:monkey

nobody is going to bother you if you open carry in new lothrop. The chief of police already told me that they would not enforce any sort of firearm possession ordinance.

The city attorney believes that if you have a cpl then you can carry concealed according to the ordinance. However, i believe he is mistaken as the ordinance does not make any exceptions for michigan cpl holders.

lapeer20m said:

nobody is going to bother you if you open carry in new lothrop. The chief of police already told me that they would not enforce any sort of firearm possession ordinance.

The city attorney believes that if you have a cpl then you can carry concealed according to the ordinance. However, i believe he is mistaken as the ordinance does not make any exceptions for michigan cpl holders.

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That's good to know Lapeer20m, but it might be good if they had a fair size group of folks show up & demonstrate just how silly it is to be worried about OCers. We are all nice, decent law abiding, [money spending] & generally all-around good people in my experiences to date. So I say let's show them they have nothing to fear, but fear its self.

At the council meeting last Wednesday I asked for an update on the ordinance and New Lothrop's attorney said he had reviewed the ordinance and the ordinance doesn't address open carry and that Michigan is an open carry legal State.

He also said that section (d) of the ordinance follows State law for exempting concealed carry allowing those with a CPL to carry concealed.

And he also said his finding is that the ordinance follows State law and that if there was a specific portion of that ordinance that I had a problem with he would be glad to review it.

Because I went to the meeting just to get an update expecting no progress had been made and to make the point that someone was still following up on it.. I admit that I was not as well prepared as I usually am for these things and didn't have material to reference on the spot so, instead of going off with nothing concrete in hand to bolster my comments, I simply said I'd do more research and return. But next time I'll bring a written presentation containing State law along with the offending portions of the ordinance........ and copies for all the council members to read.... and enter into the meetings minutes.

Now.. and this is just me.. if it is found that the ordinance actually does satisfy State law I will still return to the next council meeting just to inform that council that I am satisfied their ordinance does meet State law and thank them for their attention to this matter. Fair is fair.

But so far the ordinance's wording, to me (and I'm not an attorney able to read meanings into words that an ordinary person wouldn't find) and others here too, makes no exemption for a person with a Michigan CPL... and that, in my unlearned opinion, makes the ordinance as it is written at this time in violation of MCL 123.1102.

But.... I'm up for some of Arthur's pizza anyway! Someone pick a day!

Warchild... you buying?

Warchild... you buying?

Sure...depends on how much money you give me though....

I'm with you...pick a day.

I am in agreement with Lapeer20m's assessment on this ordinance. I would suggest to them that they drop the firearm portion altogether. See my edit below.

The village of New Lothrop ordains: Sec. 1. Unlawfully carrying a weapon.
A person Commits the crime of unlawfully carrying a weapon if he knowingly:

a. Carries a knife concealed on or about his person; or

b. Carries a knife whether concealed or not in a vehicle that he is operating or occupying.

c. This Section does not apply to: 1. people who carry at home/business.

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I do have an issue with this ordinance as it applies to knives. If I was to travel through this area within a vehicle while on the way to a hunting location, this ordinance would make me a criminal whereas state law allows for hunting knives to be transported. I still think we need State Preemption for knives!

at least one or two members seem like good ol farm boys. i wonder how many board members carry a pocket knife on a daily basis?

Yooperlady and I hand delivered to a council member a 10 page letter with all the laws and the offending portions of the ordinance in respect to Michigan's CPL not being recognized addressed to the council and attorney this afternoon.

We shall see where it goes from there.... next month.

My schedule is so full ............. of empty spaces....

So... someone pick a day/time for pizza at Arthur's in New Lothrop!

Arthur's Pizza question.

Do they have a liquor license? Info needed for non - CPL holders that may want to attend.

Glock9mmOldStyle said:

Arthur's Pizza question.

Do they have a liquor license? Info needed for non - CPL holders that may want to attend.

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I don't see that Arthur's has a liquor license:
http://www2.dleg.state.mi.us/llist/QryR.jsp?cnty=SHIAWASSEE&busId=All&ownerName=All&lictype=ON&inscomp=All&display=1&order=+ORDER+BY+1%2C3%2C2&numRows=100&reqType=activeLic&qry=new