• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

U.S Concealed Carry Association is a SCAM!!!

CharlesC

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
67
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
imported post


I just got a marketing booklet from Tim Schmidt, the head guy at USCCA, and in it he lays out how and why he createdthe USCCA as an association.

It was just a marketing ploy to make money.

I’m not kidding. He calls it “Tribal Marketing” and is exporting his idea to others. In Tim’s own words:

“My money-sucking magazine survived to become a national association with 30,000 members and a multi-media publishing company with over 50,000 customers!”

And this gem:
We all have the NEED to BELONG.

Every one has it. And it’s the most important need that human beings have after health and safety. In other words, as long as you’re healthy and as long as you’re safe, your unconscious mind’s next priority is to find ways to belong.

If you’re someone who’s into personal growth and reading about what makes us tick, this may not be a secret to you. But make no mistake, this need is powerful. Even if you’re not aware of it.

In fact…

Your unconscious mind will not rest until you BELONG to a “tribe” of some kind.”
So, Tim has us lumped in with degenerates and animals with his quasi—psych BS.

No really, he goes on for 43 pages, complete with late-night MLM style “testimonials” about his brilliant money making idea.

I wish I could post an image of his “Tim’s TRIBAL Marketing Rule #1” with his signature. Here is the text if it:

Tim’s TRIBAL Marketing Rule #1
No matter what the subject is for your membership website or association, you’ll probably be able to find a ton of information on this exact subject for FREE on the internet. This discovery may make you ask yourself, “Why would anyone want to PAY for the information that I’ll be providing?” Good question. But, don’t worry. This doesn’t mater! Here’s why. Most of the so-called free informaton is poorly organized and presented. Furthermore, there will always be a segment of society that equates quality and value with price.

Thus, there will always be plenty of people willing to pay for the information they’re searching for if it is properly marketed, organized and presented! So, please DON’T be discouraged by the old “I can find this information for free” thing.
So, it is all a scam, it is such a scam that he then crows about his method and markets his method to others. Complete with “Insider’s 3-day Workshops”. Oh, this LIVE event has LIMITED Seating and is by INVITATION ONLY.

Oh, it is in Chicago where concealed carry is illegal. Way to go Tim. What a guy!

More on this latter and I'll try to post a link to his Tribal Marketing document.

:cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss:

-CharlesC
 

Doug Huffman

Banned
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
9,181
Location
Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin,
imported post

The NRA business model:
We all have the NEED to BELONG.

Every one has it. And it’s the most important need that human beings have after health and safety. In other words, as long as you’re healthy and as long as you’re safe, your unconscious mind’s next priority is to find ways to belong.

If you’re someone who’s into personal growth and reading about what makes us tick, this may not be a secret to you. But make no mistake, this need is powerful. Even if you’re not aware of it.

In fact…

Your unconscious mind will not rest until you BELONG to a “tribe” of some kind.”
 

LEO 229

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
7,606
Location
USA
imported post

OMG...!!!!


I am going to cancel my membership now! I was a founding member!
 

Glock27Bill

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
821
Location
Louisa County, Virginia, USA
imported post

ProShooter wrote:
DrMark wrote:
Hmmm... I've never heard of the U.S Concealed Carry Association or Tim Schmidt.

Fortunate for me, I suppose.
ditto

I "belonged" for a year.

All I got was a monthly magazine and a bunch of annoying emails.

I never figured out what 'association' I belonged to, there was no activism, just a mag.
 

rchjr

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
57
Location
Powhatan, Virginia, USA
imported post

I've belonged for just about a year to the USCCA. I'd already decided to not renew my membership. As he stated, you can get most of the info free from the internet anyway. There is a forum but there seems to be the same narrow minded gun snobs that you can find on most internet gun sites. If your not carrying a "brand name" gun in a well accepted manner or caliber, then you're not doing it right. Of course we don't have that type of problem on this site.:lol: Just not worth the money spent.
 

Skeptic

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Messages
585
Location
Goochland, Virginia, USA
imported post

I have to agree with the previous 2 posters. The mag had some decent gems every so often, but started getting rehashed, and I never went out of my way to re-up after my first year.

The forum was just eh; I guess I was looking for another place after packing.org went byebye and that was one of the first ones I found.

They got my money for a year, shame on me.
 

CharlesC

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
67
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
imported post

I signed up a few months ago. I've recieved 2 magazines and they were ok. I thought they lacked depth but were ok. I thought that they may still be growning. No where near the depth of the NRA mags and feature articles.

What is interesting is that just a couple of days ago, I was wondering just what USCCA actually did.

See I was really snookered good. It was a toss up as to which to join for a fee, VCDL or USCCA. From the website it looked like USCCA was the more active and professional group.

But from what I've seen now, VCDL blows the doors off of USCCA in terms of activism and actually DOING things. And that was before the Tribal Marketing issue.

VCDL may not have a great website but they actually do thing. And there are many other free groups that also really do something. But Tim at USCCA is a phony. All the "association" is for is to make him money.

If this is a member association, who is on the board, how is it run and where does the money go? Shouldn' t us members have a right to this information?

-CharlesC
 

DiscoFever

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2008
Messages
14
Location
Ionia, Michigan, USA
imported post

Man, I hate to see this kind of sentiment toward our brothers in arms.

A scam??

How could it possibly be a scam?

You give $40/year to the NRA for two decades, and all you got were a Magazine that was so full of ads it wasn't worth reading, and ten years of a gun ban. But- you stay a member, because they are the ONLY lobbyists who scare the liberals.

On the other hand, you give less than $40 per year to the USCCA, and you get a magazine that is so relevant and so good that you read it cover to cover twice.

You have tens of thousands of people who have been introduced to concealed carry, and tons more, like me, who have learned everything they know about concealed carry from them.

How on earth is that a scam?

I never even would have known about this forum until I read about it in Concealed Carry Magazine, when Mark Walters encouraged those who CCd to OC.

I still haven't worked up the courage to OC.... but thanks to CCM telling me about this place, I'm getting closer.

If Mr. McDonalds came out and said, "Hey guys, I figured out how to succeed in fast food- show people how to get full for $4"- would you say that McDonalds were a scam, and all the times you got full from the restaurant were fake?

-Disco
 

LEO 229

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
7,606
Location
USA
imported post

DiscoFever wrote:
Man, I hate to see this kind of sentiment toward our brothers in arms.

A scam??

How could it possibly be a scam?

You give $40/year to the NRA for two decades, and all you got were a Magazine that was so full of ads it wasn't worth reading, and ten years of a gun ban. But- you stay a member, because they are the ONLY lobbyists who scare the liberals.

On the other hand, you give less than $40 per year to the USCCA, and you get a magazine that is so relevant and so good that you read it cover to cover twice.

You have tens of thousands of people who have been introduced to concealed carry, and tons more, like me, who have learned everything they know about concealed carry from them.

How on earth is that a scam?

I never even would have known about this forum until I read about it in Concealed Carry Magazine, when Mark Walters encouraged those who CCd to OC.

I still haven't worked up the courage to OC.... but thanks to CCM telling me about this place, I'm getting closer.

If Mr. McDonalds came out and said, "Hey guys, I figured out how to succeed in fast food- show people how to get full for $4"- would you say that McDonalds were a scam, and all the times you got full from the restaurant were fake?

-Disco
There are other reasons besides a magazine subscription.... Life insurance, bumper stickers and other benefits.
 

DiscoFever

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2008
Messages
14
Location
Ionia, Michigan, USA
imported post

Definitely, Leo- I agree with you there. I don't get the NRA Insurance.... probably should, but I don't. But the bumper stickers are great. I have both the NRA and the USCCA bumper sticker on the back of my laptop right now! ;)

All I'm saying is this:

For something to be a scam, it would have to cheat you somehow. Like... tell you that you were going to get something and not give it to you.

The time my wife made a donation to a charity, to find later that the "charity" was a crook who took out WAY more than the $30 my wife donated (she gave him our routing number and account number)- that was a scam.

To pay $40 to the USCCA and get, what I feel is WAAAAY more than my money's worth... I just can't fathom to see how that's a scam.

Well, we're gunna go watch that new DiCaprio movie. Later guys,

-Disco
 

jmelvin

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
2,195
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
imported post

It simply seems to me that the founder of USCCA is someone who understandsa business model and thought he would put his understanding to use in a way that was meaningful and profitable to him in a way that could also benefit others. Maybe the same information can be had for free in various places, but if you are unaware of it or untrusting of it how would you know? Why should a man be demonized for recognizing the potential to make a living and following through with it? Is it only acceptable to make a living and profit off of trifling matters?

I've only read about USCCA a few times and have no association with it, but I see no issue with someone providing a service making money for doing it. If he forcefully made people spend money to join his group then I'd have a problem, but he hasn't from what I know.
 

LEO 229

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
7,606
Location
USA
imported post

To be a true scam you need to pay something but not get what was promised.

I never did join this association so I do not know what they offer. But those that joined may get all they expect.

Any business model has the expectation to separate you from your money by offering you something you will want.

The owner knows that people want to belong. His association is a step in that direction and getting you to join needs to happen.

He is providing information people want even if it is free if you search for it on your own. But he did all the searching for you and giving it to you in one location.

So you are in reality paying him to do the searching for you and give you a place to hang out.

How many people here would pay to be on this site? :lol:
 

CharlesC

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
67
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
imported post

The NRA has affilated clubs, a museum, shooting ranges, competitions, lobbying, 3 magazines, awards, a legal team, TRAINING PROGRAMS, safety classes, the list goes on.

The NRA is a real group people BELONG to. It isn't setup for one person's financal benefit.

I thought that USCCA was about JOINING a GROUP that was doing something. The founders of this FREE group actually go to public meetings and meet with civic and gov't leaders. They actually DO stuff. Tim just cashes the checks and uses the members are Marketing Leads.

The NRA actually USES my dues to DO somethign. All Tim does is make a so-so magazine and a web forum with adds everywhere.

Can people see the difference?

I don't care that Tim at USCCA wants to make money. That is great. Please make as much as you can, just don't take advantage of my wish to help the 2A movement!

-CharlesC
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,331
Location
Valhalla
imported post

NRA = some pluses and a few minuses. Well researched articles and national exposure, insurance, Eddie Eagle and Jr. programs, etc. etc.

USCCA = stale reworked information - if you have a need to belong, consider the next option.

VCDL = feet on the ground, active grass roots. Probably the single best bargain in support of the 2nd Amendment. Make it stronger and more productive by getting personally involved. Making things happen the old fashioned way.

OCDO = hands down the best blog on the subject out there and a "membership" that will jump into the breach and pull together for the common good.

Just my $2.00 worth.

Yata hey
 

CharlesC

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
67
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
imported post

Grapeshot wrote:
NRA = some pluses and a few minuses. Well researched articles and national exposure, insurance, Eddie Eagle and Jr. programs, etc. etc.

USCCA = stale reworked information - if you have a need to belong, consider the next option.

VCDL = feet on the ground, active grass roots. Probably the single best bargain in support of the 2nd Amendment. Make it stronger and more productive by getting personally involved. Making things happen the old fashioned way.

OCDO = hands down the best blog on the subject out there and a "membership" that will jump into the breach and pull together for the common good.

Just my $2.00 worth.

Yata hey

I agree. I still have a lot of repect for the NRA but you are correct about the rest. I'll join VCDL next month.

-CharlesC
 

useful_idiot

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2008
Messages
259
Location
Herndon, Virginia, USA
imported post

Grapeshot wrote:
NRA = some pluses and a few minuses. Well researched articles and national exposure, insurance, Eddie Eagle and Jr. programs, etc. etc.

USCCA = stale reworked information - if you have a need to belong, consider the next option.

VCDL = feet on the ground, active grass roots. Probably the single best bargain in support of the 2nd Amendment. Make it stronger and more productive by getting personally involved. Making things happen the old fashioned way.

OCDO = hands down the best blog on the subject out there and a "membership" that will jump into the breach and pull together for the common good.

Just my $2.00 worth.

Yata hey
+1. I joined only insofar as I opted to receive emails, but never paid to access the forums. He sent out those emails at a rate of 2-3/day and in each he tried to sound like he was my best friend or big brother and giving me secret sage advice. Once every couple weeks one of the emails linked to something interesting, but wading through the other 40 hyperbole-laden emails to find it was not worth it to me.

I finally emailed him and said simply, "You send too many emails." :?
 
Top