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2 new apps

cirrusly

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Messages
291
Location
North Dakota
If someone else wants to jump in with an example to explain the difference feel free...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

2AFriendly

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
76
Location
Midwest
And who is this info shared with?
Nobody. The "info" is exactly your email address and username, which we don't advise using your real name. It's no different that a user account here on this forum.

Agree fully with the difference between "Unfriendly" and "Posted Unfriendly."

Legally armed citizens can still Conceal Carry in an "unfriendly" establishment that does not post a sign. However, legally armed citizens can not Conceal Carry in an "unfriendly" establishment that does post a sign. This is a significant difference the app should conspicuously account for.

It's significance varies state-by-state according to the signage laws. We technically make a point to keep track of where a person's gun is not wanted, as opposed to the legality of carry at that location; we agree and believe the addition of the "sign" checkbox will help in the states where this matters.

Also - yeah, this thread is off track for the specifics for the Virginia forum :D
 

JamesCanby

Activist Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
1,480
Location
Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
No one is disagreeing with that statement, but you're still missing the point.

IF an establishment is "not posted" could it still be marked as "unfriendly" in the app? If so, there's no distinction between: "unfriendly posted" and "unfriendly not posted," hence the issue and enhancement request.

"Not posted but unfriendly to carry" = CC can carry legally and wouldn't be asked to leave because no one could visibly see they are carrying.

"Posted and unfriendly to carry" = CC can not carry at all legally.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

If you carry into an unposted establishment and someone with proper authority objects and asks/demands/tells you to leave because they have observed your carrying -- whether openly or poorly concealed -- then the establishment should be marked "Unfriendly." If an establishment is posted, they should automatically be marked as "Unfriendly." If you are carrying and no one with proper authority objects, then for that visit it's up to the reviewer to decide whether to rate them as Neutral, Friendly, or Open Carry Friendly.

IIRC, a particular establishment's rating is dependent on the preponderance of reviews, e.g., if 15 people review a place as "Friendly" but one carrier had an unfriendly experience, the place would still be considered as "Friendly?"

Please note that the paid subscription to 2AFriendly allows for comments to be entered for a given review where specific situational comments can be entered.

Can we get a comment on this whole issue from the software developers?
 

JamesCanby

Activist Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
1,480
Location
Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
[snip]
We technically make a point to keep track of where a person's gun is not wanted, as opposed to the legality of carry at that location; we agree and believe the addition of the "sign" checkbox will help in the states where this matters.

Makes sense. It is very difficult to keep track of every jurisdiction's laws on the legal force of 'proper' postings. I agree that a "Posted" checkoff on the site may be useful, but each user should already understand what that means in his/her jurisdiction. Just as you make a distinction between 'Friendly' and 'Open Carry Friendly,' reviews should be taken as information only and not legal guidance.
 

2AFriendly

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
76
Location
Midwest
If you carry into an unposted establishment and someone with proper authority objects and asks/demands/tells you to leave because they have observed your carrying -- whether openly or poorly concealed -- then the establishment should be marked "Unfriendly." If an establishment is posted, they should automatically be marked as "Unfriendly." If you are carrying and no one with proper authority objects, then for that visit it's up to the reviewer to decide whether to rate them as Neutral, Friendly, or Open Carry Friendly.

IIRC, a particular establishment's rating is dependent on the preponderance of reviews, e.g., if 15 people review a place as "Friendly" but one carrier had an unfriendly experience, the place would still be considered as "Friendly?"

Please note that the paid subscription to 2AFriendly allows for comments to be entered for a given review where specific situational comments can be entered.

Can we get a comment on this whole issue from the software developers?

First, there is NO Paid Subscription.
I can't stress that enough to anyone who might read this. That kind of thing would never fly and would be the death of what we're trying to do. The +P app is $2.99 one-time cost, and it does open up the comments feature, among other things. Our reasoning on this is twofold: 1) We need money to operate, and 2) Most people don't care about commenting; so we see this as a non-core feature. Therefore we put it into the upgrade. If someone really cares about leaving comments for others to read, which many avid gun-rights people might; $2.99 to get the upgrade might be worth it to them.

As for ratings, we've found that there are as many opinions as there are people who discuss it, so we have landed on these general guidelines. Your mileage may vary:

  • Friendly:
    Legally OC without any hassle.
    OR if you OC, they might ask you to cover it up, but never ask you to leave.
    OR, you can legally CC with no possibility of being asked to leave, even if they know you're armed.
  • Neutral:
    Zero or unknown company policy on guns
    OR Legal to CC, but probably would be not permitted to OC even if legal.
  • UnFriendly:
    Sign posted: No Guns allowed" or some variant
    OR the company has a no-gun policy/has stated they don’t want armed customers in their store
    OR it's illegal to carry because of state or federal laws.
 
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JamesCanby

Activist Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
1,480
Location
Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
First, there is NO Paid Subscription.
I can't stress that enough to anyone who might read this. That kind of thing would never fly and would be the death of what we're trying to do. The +P app is $2.99 one-time cost, and it does open up the comments feature, among other things. Our reasoning on this is twofold: 1) We need money to operate, and 2) Most people don't care about commenting; so we see this as a non-core feature. Therefore we put it into the upgrade. If someone really cares about leaving comments for others to read, which many avid gun-rights people might; $2.99 to get the upgrade might be worth it to them.

As for ratings, we've found that there are as many opinions as there are people who discuss it, so we have landed on these general guidelines. Your mileage may vary:

  • Friendly:
    Legally OC without any hassle.
    OR if you OC, they might ask you to cover it up, but never ask you to leave.
    OR, you can legally CC with no possibility of being asked to leave, even if they know you're armed.
  • Neutral:
    Zero or unknown company policy on guns
    OR Legal to CC, but probably would be not permitted to OC even if legal.
  • UnFriendly:
    Sign posted: No Guns allowed" or some variant
    OR the company has a no-gun policy/has stated they don’t want armed customers in their store
    OR it's illegal to carry because of state or federal laws.

I'm sorry if I was inaccurate in calling the +P version cost a "subscription" instead of a purchase cost. I always buy the "paid" version of software when I have tested the free version and found it useful. Software app developers deserve to be recompensed for their efforts.

Thanks for posting the ratings guidelines. That's helpful.
 

2AFriendly

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
76
Location
Midwest
I'm sorry if I was inaccurate in calling the +P version cost a "subscription" instead of a purchase cost. I always buy the "paid" version of software when I have tested the free version and found it useful. Software app developers deserve to be recompensed for their efforts.

Thanks for posting the ratings guidelines. That's helpful.

Right on. I just wanted to make sure people realized that there's nothing recurring as far as payments go :D
 

All American Nightmare

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
521
Location
Never Never Land
First, there is NO Paid Subscription.
I can't stress that enough to anyone who might read this. That kind of thing would never fly and would be the death of what we're trying to do. The +P app is $2.99 one-time cost, and it does open up the comments feature, among other things. Our reasoning on this is twofold: 1) We need money to operate, and 2) Most people don't care about commenting; so we see this as a non-core feature. Therefore we put it into the upgrade. If someone really cares about leaving comments for others to read, which many avid gun-rights people might; $2.99 to get the upgrade might be worth it to them.

As for ratings, we've found that there are as many opinions as there are people who discuss it, so we have landed on these general guidelines. Your mileage may vary:

  • Friendly:
    Legally OC without any hassle.
    OR if you OC, they might ask you to cover it up, but never ask you to leave.
    OR, you can legally CC with no possibility of being asked to leave, even if they know you're armed.
  • Neutral:
    Zero or unknown company policy on guns
    OR Legal to CC, but probably would be not permitted to OC even if legal.
  • UnFriendly:
    Sign posted: No Guns allowed" or some variant
    OR the company has a no-gun policy/has stated they don’t want armed customers in their store
    OR it's illegal to carry because of state or federal laws.

I think the requirements are too lax for friendly. If they are true supporters then they will not ask you to cover it up ever. When you conceal you give up some rights. Does the developer of the app oc?
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,331
Location
Valhalla
Friendly? This needs to be rethought.

Asking me to cover (CC) my handgun is decidedly not friendly. It may be tolerant of hidden guns, but most assuredly not supportive of OC.

That and they might be encouraging an illegal act if the actor did not have a permit in a state requiring one to CC, like Virginia.

IMO - OC friendly businesses either support OC or at the least do not make negative mention of it.
 

rightwinglibertarian

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
827
Location
Seattle WA
Thanks, we're sponsors of this forum and appreciate the feedback.

If you need anything at all or have issues, just contact us (links are in the app) and we'll respond quickly. We're working on an update for Android now - just released an iPhone bugfix release... so remember to grab updates as they happen. Thanks!

Please remove the international restriction. 1) It smacks of censorship and is a massive pet hate and 2) Americans living abroad who wish to return and wish to scout out potential areas are prevented from doing so. I will not be downloading the app even when I return till that issue is resolved. If it is and the app works I would be more than willing to purchase the paid app and certainly would be leaving comments and adding to the database when and where needed.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,331
Location
Valhalla
Please remove the international restriction. 1) It smacks of censorship and is a massive pet hate and 2) Americans living abroad who wish to return and wish to scout out potential areas are prevented from doing so. I will not be downloading the app even when I return till that issue is resolved. If it is and the app works I would be more than willing to purchase the paid app and certainly would be leaving comments and adding to the database when and where needed.
I for one understand the international restriction - greatly reduces references to places not intended to be covered by the apps and the inherent need to review reports. W/o this restriction the information stream could easily become a logjam.

Anyone living abroad and wanting advance information before returning can quite easily solve this by having someone forward it to them w/o compromising anything.

Forgoing the information because you didn't get it your way, penalizes no one but yourself.
 

rightwinglibertarian

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
827
Location
Seattle WA
I for one understand the international restriction - greatly reduces references to places not intended to be covered by the apps and the inherent need to review reports. W/o this restriction the information stream could easily become a logjam.

Forgoing the information because you didn't get it your way, penalizes no one but yourself.

Not if the map itself was limited to the U.S or the app wouldnt let you add info for non U.S locations. I guess I should add the reason I object so strongly is because of already runaway censorship by the Google search engine (who have a whole Wikipedia article dedicated to this), TV channels who deliberately block content and Hulu who do the same. This doesnt just hurt me but many others who would benefit from these services and hurts the businesses who are losing revenue due to lost advertising. While perhaps OT it does give the basis for my objection with this app and I think it's a matter of principle.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,331
Location
Valhalla
Not if the map itself was limited to the U.S or the app wouldnt let you add info for non U.S locations. I guess I should add the reason I object so strongly is because of already runaway censorship by the Google search engine (who have a whole Wikipedia article dedicated to this), TV channels who deliberately block content and Hulu who do the same. This doesnt just hurt me but many others who would benefit from these services and hurts the businesses who are losing revenue due to lost advertising. While perhaps OT it does give the basis for my objection with this app and I think it's a matter of principle.

Then that is what you should do for any site that you administer.
 

2AFriendly

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
76
Location
Midwest
Please remove the international restriction. 1) It smacks of censorship and is a massive pet hate and 2) Americans living abroad who wish to return and wish to scout out potential areas are prevented from doing so. I will not be downloading the app even when I return till that issue is resolved. If it is and the app works I would be more than willing to purchase the paid app and certainly would be leaving comments and adding to the database when and where needed.

Then that is what you should do for any site that you administer.

We technically don't restrict international use, but we won't be selling the app in foreign stores. The point to the app is to be an on-location in-hand tool. Contrast with the website, which we see as more of a research tool. The website is available worldwide, and does the same things as the app.
 

2AFriendly

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
76
Location
Midwest
Friendly? This needs to be rethought.

Asking me to cover (CC) my handgun is decidedly not friendly. It may be tolerant of hidden guns, but most assuredly not supportive of OC.

That and they might be encouraging an illegal act if the actor did not have a permit in a state requiring one to CC, like Virginia.

IMO - OC friendly businesses either support OC or at the least do not make negative mention of it.

If I couldn't envision a case where a business owner had some legitimate or legal reason for discouraging OC, I'd be in 100% agreement.

Like I mentioned there's a lot of opinions about it, and they vary a lot according to someone's state, often stemming from the patchwork of laws around the country. "Friendly" definitely means something slightly different in some states than others.

Anyhow, those are loose guidelines and not "rules." You should still rate your conscience, not what we advise: because chances are we're not in the same state and have different personal guidelines.
 
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2AFriendly

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
76
Location
Midwest
I think the requirements are too lax for friendly. If they are true supporters then they will not ask you to cover it up ever. When you conceal you give up some rights. Does the developer of the app oc?

It varies state by state: some places OC might not be legal, or the business owner might have a legitimate reason for not allowing OC in his establishment, etc.

I think a CC only business can still be classified as friendly to the 2A, but they certainly wouldn't be champions of RKBA.

Yes we do OC ourselves.
 

rightwinglibertarian

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
827
Location
Seattle WA
We technically don't restrict international use, but we won't be selling the app in foreign stores. The point to the app is to be an on-location in-hand tool. Contrast with the website, which we see as more of a research tool. The website is available worldwide, and does the same things as the app.


Then the restriction is from Google? The Play store explicitly says the app (the free one) is not available in my country. I shall certainly be bookmarking the website and making note of relevant stores in the required area. Thank you for the reminder.
 
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