• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Alabama Senate votes to allow church to form police dept.

SFCRetired

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,754
Location
Montgomery, Alabama, USA
When I read this story, the first thing that popped into my mind was, "Are we going to have mutawa such as Saudi Arabia, and many other Islamic countries, has?"

My church has a need for security, yes. Does it need POST-certified security with the power to arrest? NO! We do have people who do very well in defusing any threatening situation. I don't know, nor do I want to know, if any of them are armed.
 

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
" Guardian Angels".. Perhaps!..

It is indeed the responsibility of parents to protect their progeny, said protection does indeed not end at the church doors.. Evil lurks in the most sacred of places.. Scum bags no not the meaning of " Sacrosanct"...

We as Parents, have a sacred duty to our Creator, to protect what he has given, said protection does not end at home, school or place of worship.

" Victory today triumphs over revenge tomorrow".. (CCJ)

My .02
Regards
CCJ
 

KBCraig

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,758
Location
Granite State of Mind
When I read this story, the first thing that popped into my mind was, "Are we going to have mutawa such as Saudi Arabia, and many other Islamic countries, has?"
I had a similar thought: it was that the people who cheered for this are likely to also Chicken-Little about Sharia law being enforced in America.

On the plus side, Alabama doesn't ban church carry or impose ridiculous requirements, like many Southern states do.
 

SFCRetired

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,754
Location
Montgomery, Alabama, USA
snip//I had a similar thought: it was that the people who cheered for this are likely to also Chicken-Little about Sharia law being enforced in America.//

There are those who profess to be Christian who would, if not severely checked, institute a Christianity-based Sharia Law with parts taken from both the Old and New Testaments. That idea is, to me, almost as frightening as Islamic-based Sharia Law.

 

deepdiver

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
5,831
Location
Southeast, Missouri, USA
......above their pray grade.
Nice. Very nice, Grapeshot!

The devil is going to be in the details on this matter. The article was pretty vague. Are they creating a "police force" like campus security many places where they only have authority on campus? Or are they going to be actual sworn law officers and have the same authority as city/state LEO just with the campus as their jurisdiction but able to step off campus into the city with the same authority as city LEO? If this is a private law enforcement entity with equal power to a gov't LEO but answerable to that church (little "c" not big "C") rather than civilian authority it is a horrid and dangerous idea.
 

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
Nice. Very nice, Grapeshot!

The devil is going to be in the details on this matter. The article was pretty vague. Are they creating a "police force" like campus security many places where they only have authority on campus? Or are they going to be actual sworn law officers and have the same authority as city/state LEO just with the campus as their jurisdiction but able to step off campus into the city with the same authority as city LEO? If this is a private law enforcement entity with equal power to a gov't LEO but answerable to that church (little "c" not big "C") rather than civilian authority it is a horrid and dangerous idea.
It seems only Constitutional correct that they would indeed hire their own private security people, to enforce rules and protect the members..
The government can in no way be part of said policing, separation of state and church comes to mind.. However a very interesting concept.

My .02
Regards
CCJ
 
Last edited:

efriday

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2009
Messages
58
Location
Shalimar, Florida
Police sponsored by private groups?

One is reminded of the sworn LEOs sponsored by the ASPCA, having full powers of arrest and acting like any other government police agency. Could the Baptist Ladies Legion for Decency or the Jewish Anti Defemation League spnsor their own police to enforce US Code ?
How about the Florida Anti Open Carry Neighborhood Watch ?
 

DeSchaine

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2013
Messages
537
Location
Kalamazoo, MI
From the limited amount of information available so far, I think it would be a safe bet that this "church police force" would act more like that of a university/college. All the power and authority of a normal police dept., but with a very limited jurisdictional area.

And as far as the farce of so-called "separation of state and church" is concerned... Article 1, section 3 of the Alabama Constitution states:

That no religion shall be established by law; that no preference shall be given by law to any religious sect, society, denomination, or mode of worship; that no one shall be compelled by law to attend any place of worship; nor to pay any tithes, taxes, or other rate for building or repairing any place of worship, or for maintaining any minister or ministry; that no religious test shall be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under this state; and that the civil rights, privileges, and capacities of any citizen shall not be in any manner affected by his religious principles.
(relevant parts bolded by me)

I don't see an issue with it as long as the funding does not come from taxpayers, that any places of religion with comparable size are not given a different answer, and that any and all such agencies are held to the exact same standard.
 

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
From the limited amount of information available so far, I think it would be a safe bet that this "church police force" would act more like that of a university/college. All the power and authority of a normal police dept., but with a very limited jurisdictional area.

And as far as the farce of so-called "separation of state and church" is concerned... Article 1, section 3 of the Alabama Constitution states:

(relevant parts bolded by me)

I don't see an issue with it as long as the funding does not come from taxpayers, that any places of religion with comparable size are not given a different answer, and that any and all such agencies are held to the exact same standard.
Great post, clears up some issues that i was pondering.. However I and many here probably don't feel that the first amendment is a farce..

It seems likely that the church would hire their own security folks, paid for by the Church members..

My .02
CCJ
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,777
Location
here nc
This is another of the bills which died at the close of the regular legislative session Friday, May 19.
thanks SFC, i was truly concerned with the precedence this might set for NC who had rumblings of discussion after the SC church debacle.

ipse
 

SFCRetired

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,754
Location
Montgomery, Alabama, USA
thanks SFC, i was truly concerned with the precedence this might set for NC who had rumblings of discussion after the SC church debacle.

ipse
What concerned me was the thought that "church police" could, especially here in the Bible Belt, rapidly turn into "religious police" a/k/a/ "mutawa", such as are found in Saudi Arabia. That is one bill I was not sorry to see die in the House.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,777
Location
here nc
What concerned me was the thought that "church police" could, especially here in the Bible Belt, rapidly turn into "religious police" a/k/a/ "mutawa", such as are found in Saudi Arabia. That is one bill I was not sorry to see die in the House.
SFC, we already have the religious police alive and well in this country in the form of our established 'blue' laws where businesses can't be open, alcohol can not be sold, and now this popped up on our radar screen this past week...


Pastors throughout Wake County are concerned some graduation dates set by the Wake County Public School system are interfering with the Sabbath.


“I was appalled thinking that our public schools would schedule graduation service something that significant during worship hours for most churches,” Rev. Dr. William T. Newkirk said, pastor at Oak City Baptist Church in Raleigh. http://wncn.com/2017/05/18/pastors-complain-after-wake-schools-schedules-graduations-on-sundays/

they do not need firearms in this country...they have social, mainstream medium to inflict their religious preferences on the populaces.

ipse
 

SFCRetired

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,754
Location
Montgomery, Alabama, USA
There are already Mutawa functioning in the US. General Presidency of Religious Affairs and Welfare of the Ummah - GPRAWU - patrols Islamic communities in the United States enforcing shariah. Here, from Minneapolis.

http://www.startribune.com/minneapo...patrolling-in-cedar-riverside-area/419321224/
That should have the brakes put on immediately. The Supreme Law of the United States is our Constitution. All other laws must be in compliance with the Constitution. Those that are not, such as Sharia, have no place in this country.
 

KBCraig

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,758
Location
Granite State of Mind
Pastors throughout Wake County are concerned some graduation dates set by the Wake County Public School system are interfering with the Sabbath.

“I was appalled thinking that our public schools would schedule graduation service something that significant during worship hours for most churches,” Rev. Dr. William T. Newkirk said, pastor at Oak City Baptist Church in Raleigh. http://wncn.com/2017/05/18/pastors-complain-after-wake-schools-schedules-graduations-on-sundays/
Sunday is not the Sabbath, and never has been, even in the Christian church.
 

SFCRetired

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,754
Location
Montgomery, Alabama, USA
Bless you. Saturday is the Sabbath. Sunday is The Lord's Day, His Ressurection Day celebrated.

Revelation 1:10 I [His servant John] was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
I had a pastor many years ago, something of a cynic, who stated that passage should read that John was into the "spirits". Same pastor also wondered aloud if perhaps John had found a source for marijuana. :D
Wasn't long before I found another church.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,912
Location
North Carolina
When I read this story, the first thing that popped into my mind was, "Are we going to have mutawa such as Saudi Arabia, and many other Islamic countries, has?"

My church has a need for security, yes. Does it need POST-certified security with the power to arrest? NO! We do have people who do very well in defusing any threatening situation. I don't know, nor do I want to know, if any of them are armed.
My thoughts also, what happens when a not so respected 'religion' decides they want police. The potential for abuse is high.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,382
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
As a member of a particular church what particular law, God's law that is, could I be arrested for? I guess separation of church and state is in the eye of the beholder.
 
Top