ryanburbridge
Regular Member
I saw a AR pistol like this today at a gun store.
It is being sold as a pistol! must be 21.
It is exempt from the drop safety testing because of PC 12133(b).
12133.
(b) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a
single-shot pistol with a barrel length of not less than six inches
and that has an overall length of at least 10 1/2 inches when the
handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.
Now this got me thinking.
Why can't I use the same rules to build myself a ruger charger?
It would have a fixed mag of no more then ten rounds.
Have a barrel not less then six inches and longer then 10 1/2 overall.
i started to research this subject and am seeing some issues that I may have to resolve.
Thats why im here!
Look at this PC
12001. (a) (1) As used in this title, the terms "pistol,"
"revolver," and "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person"
shall apply to and include any device designed to be used as a
weapon, from which is expelled a projectile by the force of any
explosion, or other form of combustion, and that has a barrel less
than 16 inches in length. These terms also include any device that
has a barrel 16 inches or more in length which is designed to be
interchanged with a barrel less than 16 inches in length.
(2) As used in this title, the term "handgun" means any "pistol,"
"revolver," or "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person."
(f) Nothing shall prevent a device defined as a "handgun,"
"pistol," "revolver," or "firearm capable of being concealed upon the
person" from also being found to be a short-barreled shotgun or a
short-barreled rifle, as defined in Section 12020.
Ok so based on PC 12001 (f) what keeps the LEGAL AR pistol from being an SBR (short-barreled rifle)?
If you say its because the AR pistol is registered as a pistol and not a rifle look here.
From http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php
How do I know if my firearms need to be registered?
There is no firearm registration requirement in California except for assault weapon owners and personal handgun importers.* However, you may submit a Firearm Ownership Record to the DOJ for any firearm you own.* Having a Firearm Ownership Record on file with the DOJ may help in the return of your firearm if it is lost or stolen.* With very few and specific exceptions, all firearm transactions must be conducted through a firearms dealer.
12001.
As used in this chapter, a "personal handgun importer" means
an individual who meets all of the following criteria:
(1) He or she is not a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071.
(2) He or she is not a licensed manufacturer of firearms pursuant
to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United
States Code.
(3) He or she is not a licensed importer of firearms pursuant to
Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United
States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(4) He or she is the owner of a handgun.
(5) He or she acquired that handgun outside of California.
(6) He or she moves into this state on or after January 1, 1998,
as a resident of this state.
(7) He or she intends to possess that handgun within this state on
or after January 1, 1998.
(8) The handgun was not delivered to him or her by a person
licensed pursuant to Section 12071 who delivered that firearm
following the procedures set forth in Section 12071 and subdivision
(c) of Section 12072.
(9) He or she, while a resident of this state, had not previously
reported his or her ownership of that handgun to the Department of
Justice in a manner prescribed by the department that included
information concerning him or her and a description of the firearm.
(10) The handgun is not a firearm that is prohibited by
subdivision (a) of Section 12020.
(11) The handgun is not an assault weapon, as defined in Section
12276 or 12276.1.
(12) The handgun is not a machinegun, as defined in Section 12200.
(13) The person is 18 years of age or older.
Based on (5) I am not a "personal handgun importer". This means it does not have to be reported.
And If I did want to report it I could just fill out a form and pay 19 bucks.
SEE
AND
Last i looked at the Assault Weapons Identification Guide
as listed or described in Penal Code Sections 12276, 12276.1, and 12276.5
From http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/awguide.pdf
Generic Characteristics Defining Assault Weapons:
12276.1 (a) Notwithstanding Penal Code section 12276, “assault weapon” shall also mean the following:
Rifles
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon. (B) A thumbhole stock. (C) A folding or telescoping stock. (D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip. (2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10
rounds. (3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
Note: Bayonets and bayonet lugs are not assault weapon characteristics under California law.
Pistols
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the fol- lowing:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer. (B) A second handgrip. (C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to
fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel. (D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
Based on the gun I would build having a FIXED mag it would NOT fall under either definition of an Assault Weapon.
What do you think? See anything that I have missed? If you do please post what you think WITH the info to back it up!
I will post anything else I find relating to this.
Thanks!!
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=6041897#post6041897
![7.5_Pistol_800x307.jpg](http://www.franklinarmory.com/7.5_Pistol_800x307.jpg)
It is being sold as a pistol! must be 21.
![ksnOpYkCT7Epzbnt3ujszg.jpg](http://pulse.yimg.com/3/gShTsQoIrI6om59XtAxCiEgCGEDgmHbrWF8vKQlR9g--/66/o/ksnOpYkCT7Epzbnt3ujszg.jpg)
It is exempt from the drop safety testing because of PC 12133(b).
12133.
(b) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a
single-shot pistol with a barrel length of not less than six inches
and that has an overall length of at least 10 1/2 inches when the
handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.
Now this got me thinking.
Why can't I use the same rules to build myself a ruger charger?
![ruger-charger.jpg](http://www.survival-gear-guide.com/image-files/ruger-charger.jpg)
It would have a fixed mag of no more then ten rounds.
Have a barrel not less then six inches and longer then 10 1/2 overall.
i started to research this subject and am seeing some issues that I may have to resolve.
Thats why im here!
Look at this PC
12001. (a) (1) As used in this title, the terms "pistol,"
"revolver," and "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person"
shall apply to and include any device designed to be used as a
weapon, from which is expelled a projectile by the force of any
explosion, or other form of combustion, and that has a barrel less
than 16 inches in length. These terms also include any device that
has a barrel 16 inches or more in length which is designed to be
interchanged with a barrel less than 16 inches in length.
(2) As used in this title, the term "handgun" means any "pistol,"
"revolver," or "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person."
(f) Nothing shall prevent a device defined as a "handgun,"
"pistol," "revolver," or "firearm capable of being concealed upon the
person" from also being found to be a short-barreled shotgun or a
short-barreled rifle, as defined in Section 12020.
Ok so based on PC 12001 (f) what keeps the LEGAL AR pistol from being an SBR (short-barreled rifle)?
If you say its because the AR pistol is registered as a pistol and not a rifle look here.
From http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php
How do I know if my firearms need to be registered?
There is no firearm registration requirement in California except for assault weapon owners and personal handgun importers.* However, you may submit a Firearm Ownership Record to the DOJ for any firearm you own.* Having a Firearm Ownership Record on file with the DOJ may help in the return of your firearm if it is lost or stolen.* With very few and specific exceptions, all firearm transactions must be conducted through a firearms dealer.
12001.
an individual who meets all of the following criteria:
(1) He or she is not a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071.
(2) He or she is not a licensed manufacturer of firearms pursuant
to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United
States Code.
(3) He or she is not a licensed importer of firearms pursuant to
Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United
States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(4) He or she is the owner of a handgun.
(5) He or she acquired that handgun outside of California.
(6) He or she moves into this state on or after January 1, 1998,
as a resident of this state.
(7) He or she intends to possess that handgun within this state on
or after January 1, 1998.
(8) The handgun was not delivered to him or her by a person
licensed pursuant to Section 12071 who delivered that firearm
following the procedures set forth in Section 12071 and subdivision
(c) of Section 12072.
(9) He or she, while a resident of this state, had not previously
reported his or her ownership of that handgun to the Department of
Justice in a manner prescribed by the department that included
information concerning him or her and a description of the firearm.
(10) The handgun is not a firearm that is prohibited by
subdivision (a) of Section 12020.
(11) The handgun is not an assault weapon, as defined in Section
12276 or 12276.1.
(12) The handgun is not a machinegun, as defined in Section 12200.
(13) The person is 18 years of age or older.
Based on (5) I am not a "personal handgun importer". This means it does not have to be reported.
And If I did want to report it I could just fill out a form and pay 19 bucks.
SEE
![gqjJRN.BH4U_1wxkOU.u8g.jpg](http://pulse.yimg.com/3/gShTsQoIrI6om59XtAxCiEgCGEDgmHbrWF8vKQlR9g--/70/o/gqjJRN.BH4U_1wxkOU.u8g.jpg)
AND
![i.0_ch7r1VXhw_.CQpGCng.jpg](http://pulse.yimg.com/3/gShTsQoIrI6om59XtAxCiEgCGEDgmHbrWF8vKQlR9g--/69/o/i.0_ch7r1VXhw_.CQpGCng.jpg)
Last i looked at the Assault Weapons Identification Guide
as listed or described in Penal Code Sections 12276, 12276.1, and 12276.5
From http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/awguide.pdf
Generic Characteristics Defining Assault Weapons:
12276.1 (a) Notwithstanding Penal Code section 12276, “assault weapon” shall also mean the following:
Rifles
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon. (B) A thumbhole stock. (C) A folding or telescoping stock. (D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip. (2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10
rounds. (3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
Note: Bayonets and bayonet lugs are not assault weapon characteristics under California law.
Pistols
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the fol- lowing:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer. (B) A second handgrip. (C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to
fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel. (D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
Based on the gun I would build having a FIXED mag it would NOT fall under either definition of an Assault Weapon.
What do you think? See anything that I have missed? If you do please post what you think WITH the info to back it up!
I will post anything else I find relating to this.
Thanks!!
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=6041897#post6041897
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