• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Arg....help a Kansas ccw holder understand open carry in Utah, Zion....

ruskiegunlover

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2011
Messages
36
Location
wichita, ks
Ok. As a legal CCW holder of KS, I can open carry with a chambered, loaded sig p220 correct? Only people who do not have permits are required to be two actions from firing, right?

I will be in Zion monday and tuesday of next week with several friends. Most of us will be carrying. Two of us have ks permits. Frankly, due to the heat, I want to open carry so I can dresa down a bit and not wear a 2nd shirt. I will also, wed through friday, be doing Death Hollow between Escalante and Boulder......where I also intend to open carry. Do not want to pack gun away out of reach or open carry with two needed actions if I do not have to.

Thanks guys!
 
Last edited:

FreedomLover

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
35
Location
Crust of Earth
With a permit issued by ANY state or county in the USofA the holder of the permit may openly carry fully loaded any firearm of their choice in Utah. They may also carry fully loaded and concealed any firearm of their choice provided said firearm is not a short barrelled rifle or short barrelled shotgun or a fully automatic!

Open or Concealed carry loaded or unloaded is legal with or without a permit if one is over 18 years of age, has legal possession/control of the vehicle or permission of the one who is in legal possession of the vehicle.

The only time one must have an empty chamber under the hammer and be more that one action from firing while open carrying is when one does not have a permit.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,347
Location
Valhalla
With a permit issued by ANY state or county in the USofA the holder of the permit may openly carry fully loaded any firearm of their choice in Utah. They may also carry fully loaded and concealed any firearm of their choice provided said firearm is not a short barrelled rifle or short barrelled shotgun or a fully automatic!

Open or Concealed carry loaded or unloaded is legal with or without a permit if one is over 18 years of age, has legal possession/control of the vehicle or permission of the one who is in legal possession of the vehicle.

The only time one must have an empty chamber under the hammer and be more that one action from firing while open carrying is when one does not have a permit.
A link to law would have been nice. in fact it is a Forum Rule.

(5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.
 

ruskiegunlover

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2011
Messages
36
Location
wichita, ks
I apologize, not trying to cause trouble. Appreciate the info though. Thats what I thought, just wanted to make sure before leaving.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,338
Location
Nevada
UT recognizes all states' permits (UCA 76-10-523). Any state's permit is a license to carry a loaded firearm, openly or concealed (UCA 76-10-505).

I am a UT state-certified firearms instructor.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
7,987
Location
here nc
OP, since you will be on Zion National Park, remember carry within the park is allowed, HOWEVER, you may not carry in the park’s physical buildings, welcome center w/restrooms!

For your hiking sojourn to Escalante monument area, this land is alledgedly under the auspices of BLM and you should also be good, but my caveat since i am unable to discern specific references on ownership, I am therefore personally unsure about the ‘visitor centers’ in the monument area.

Your planned vacation sounds fun, but then I remember my idea of camping is staying at a Days Inn:uhoh:.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,347
Location
Valhalla
OP, since you will be on Zion National Park, remember carry within the park is allowed, HOWEVER, you may not carry in the park’s physical buildings, welcome center w/restrooms!
--snipped--
Not so.
One may not carry in a building where park service employees regularly work. Such must be well marked with obvious signs and restrooms are not restricted.

"
As with most legalities, definitions are important. Here, the definition of a “federal facility” creates a potential complication. Federal law–which trumps a federal regulation–bans firearms in federal facilities. According to Selleck, “buildings where federal employees regularly discharge their government function, where they carry out their assigned duties, are federal facilities.”



"Toting your handgun into a park administration building? Illegal. Into a restroom along a park trail? Not a problem."

 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
7,987
Location
here nc
Not so.
One may not carry in a building where park service employees regularly work. Such must be well marked with obvious signs and restrooms are not restricted.

"As with most legalities, definitions are important. Here, the definition of a “federal facility” creates a potential complication. Federal law–which trumps a federal regulation–bans firearms in federal facilities. According to Selleck, “buildings where federal employees regularly discharge their government function, where they carry out their assigned duties, are federal facilities.”

"Toting your handgun into a park administration building? Illegal. Into a restroom along a park trail? Not a problem."


From zion’s website: https://www.nps.gov/zion/learn/management/lawsandpolicies.htm


Firearms

People who can legally possess firearms under applicable federal, state, and local laws, can legally possess firearms in Zion National Park and must follow all state and federal laws. Discharging firearms or hunting within the park is prohibited. Firearms are prohibited in park facilities. Unquote

Sorry, as mentioned previously, at face value, ‘park facilities’ is a nebulous term being used by Zion, et al., and if any assigned park ranger discerns a trailside port a potty qualifies as a ‘park facilities’ the discussion might get interesting.

[h=3]https://www.nps.gov/articles/firearms-in-national-parks.htm
Possession of Firearms in Federal Facilities[/h]Unless expressly authorized, Federal law prohibits the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon in NPS facilities. These buildings include, but are not limited to, government offices, visitor centers, ranger stations, fee collection buildings, and maintenance facilities. 18 U.S.C. 930.

http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(title:18 section:930 edition:prelim) OR (granuleid:USC-prelim-title18-section930)&f=treesort&edition=prelim&num=0&jumpTo=true

18 USC 930 (g) As used in this section:

(1) The term "Federal facility" means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.

Now Grape, et al., if there is a major interpretation issue [‘...not limited to,...’] between NPS websites and actual USC wording, what is Johnnie/Susie Ranger in the field going to do in their enforcement against JQPublic gun carrying citizen?
 
Last edited:

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,347
Location
Valhalla
From zion’s website: https://www.nps.gov/zion/learn/management/lawsandpolicies.htm


Firearms

People who can legally possess firearms under applicable federal, state, and local laws, can legally possess firearms in Zion National Park and must follow all state and federal laws. Discharging firearms or hunting within the park is prohibited. Firearms are prohibited in park facilities. Unquote

Sorry, as mentioned previously, at face value, ‘park facilities’ is a nebulous term being used by Zion, et al., and if any assigned park ranger discerns a trailside port a potty qualifies as a ‘park facilities’ the discussion might get interesting.
I think generally much to do about nothing. "Facilities" has already been defined for NPS.
 
Top