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BR 349 Prefiled for 2019 legislative session

gutshot II

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2017
Messages
555
Location
Central Ky.
Just imagine the worst gun bill you could possibly think of and you will have BR 349. This bill includes all of the restrictions/prohibitions that gun grabbers have ever thought they would like to have. You would just be better off throwing all of your guns in the Ohio River. The good part is that it has zero chance of passing. What we have to worry about is a compromise that only passes parts of it. Even that would be disastrous but it is also very unlikely to happen. This is a good indication of the thinking done by our enemies. This is what they dream of accomplishing and what they would do unless we fight against it. They are making progress slowly every year and even though it is very unlikely that they can pass anything like this right now. Their constituencies are limited to mostly Jefferson and Fayette Cos. but gun-friendly legislators that used to be in those counties have been replaced by rabid gun haters. We need to reverse the trends and move to restore our rights instead of just fighting to hold the line. We now have a virtual stalemate were we can block their bills and they can block ours. Five years ago, nobody would have bothered to sponsor a bill like this. It would be a waste of time. Now, it is a appeasement to their voters and they hope something sticks. They will be heroes to the people that vote for them and a reason for others to join that group. It is not for this year. It is for 10 years down the road. It needs to be stopped NOW. We are slowly losing ground.

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/19RS/prefiled/BR349.htm If you want to see the entire bill, just click the bill number "BR 349" in the upper lefthand corner. I'd advise you not to do that. It is a long bill and it will make you sick. The summary is bad enough.
 

MrFive7

Newbie
Joined
May 13, 2017
Messages
12
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E-Town
Wow I don't know why I read that entire thing. I do feel sick.

Licensing for everything, registration, your estate has to list every single gun you own, you go to jail if your gun isn't locked in a safe, felony for owning an AR-15... This truly is the gun grabbers utopia.

It's an eye opener for their end game.

But don't worry, no one is going to take your guns.. /s
 

jammer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2008
Messages
66
Location
, ,
Just imagine the worst gun bill you could possibly think of and you will have BR 349. This bill includes all of the restrictions/prohibitions that gun grabbers have ever thought they would like to have. You would just be better off throwing all of your guns in the Ohio River. The good part is that it has zero chance of passing. What we have to worry about is a compromise that only passes parts of it. Even that would be disastrous but it is also very unlikely to happen. This is a good indication of the thinking done by our enemies. This is what they dream of accomplishing and what they would do unless we fight against it. They are making progress slowly every year and even though it is very unlikely that they can pass anything like this right now. Their constituencies are limited to mostly Jefferson and Fayette Cos. but gun-friendly legislators that used to be in those counties have been replaced by rabid gun haters. We need to reverse the trends and move to restore our rights instead of just fighting to hold the line. We now have a virtual stalemate were we can block their bills and they can block ours. Five years ago, nobody would have bothered to sponsor a bill like this. It would be a waste of time. Now, it is a appeasement to their voters and they hope something sticks. They will be heroes to the people that vote for them and a reason for others to join that group. It is not for this year. It is for 10 years down the road. It needs to be stopped NOW. We are slowly losing ground.

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/19RS/prefiled/BR349.htm If you want to see the entire bill, just click the bill number "BR 349" in the upper lefthand corner. I'd advise you not to do that. It is a long bill and it will make you sick. The summary is bad enough.
IT'S BR549 LIKE IN HEEHAW
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
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Nov 5, 2015
Messages
657
Location
Kentucky
For them to pass such a bill in KY and it stand a legal challenge, they first will need to amend the KY state constitution.

The State legislature is only empowered to prevent concealed carry.
Hence all state gun regulations clearly state "concealed deadly weapon".

Though I agree it's easier to hold legislators feet to the fire and stop passage of such a bill than have to go thru the hassle of taking it to the KY Supreme Court.
 

gutshot II

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Jul 1, 2017
Messages
555
Location
Central Ky.
For them to pass such a bill in KY and it stand a legal challenge, they first will need to amend the KY state constitution.

The State legislature is only empowered to prevent concealed carry.
Hence all state gun regulations clearly state "concealed deadly weapon".


Though I agree it's easier to hold legislators feet to the fire and stop passage of such a bill than have to go thru the hassle of taking it to the KY Supreme Court.
Oh, yeah!!

What about KRS 527.070? http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Statutes/statute.aspx?id=19962
First passed in 1994 (before there were any legal concealed weapons in Ky., so it must have been deliberately written for openly carried weapons) and has withstood any challenge for 24+ years. I can't find any mention of "concealed" weapons in that statute. Can you point it out, please? No new amendment to the constitution for this statute.

What about KRS 244.125? http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Statutes/statute.aspx?id=43043
First created in 1994 (before there were any legal concealed weapons in Ky., so it must have been deliberately written for openly carried weapons) and withstood any challenge for 24+ years. I can't find any mention of "concealed" weapons in that statute. Can you point it out, please? No new amendment to the constitution for this statute.


Maybe our state legislators don't know that, "The State legislature is only empowered to prevent concealed carry.
Hence all state gun regulations clearly state "concealed deadly weapon".

If that is the case you should go to Frankfort and tell them. I don't know of any movement afoot to challenge either of these laws in Ky. courts. Maybe you and any others with the same ill-conceived opinions can start one. I wish you good luck in that endeavor. Bring your checkbooks.
 

Ghost1958

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Messages
657
Location
Kentucky
Oh, yeah!!

What about KRS 527.070? http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Statutes/statute.aspx?id=19962
First passed in 1994 (before there were any legal concealed weapons in Ky., so it must have been deliberately written for openly carried weapons) and has withstood any challenge for 24+ years. I can't find any mention of "concealed" weapons in that statute. Can you point it out, please? No new amendment to the constitution for this statute.


What about KRS 244.125? http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Statutes/statute.aspx?id=43043
First created in 1994 (before there were any legal concealed weapons in Ky., so it must have been deliberately written for openly carried weapons) and withstood any challenge for 24+ years. I can't find any mention of "concealed" weapons in that statute. Can you point it out, please? No new amendment to the constitution for this statute.


Maybe our state legislators don't know that, "The State legislature is only empowered to prevent concealed carry.
Hence all state gun regulations clearly state "concealed deadly weapon".

If that is the case you should go to Frankfort and tell them. I don't know of any movement afoot to challenge either of these laws in Ky. courts. Maybe you and any others with the same ill-conceived opinions can start one. I wish you good luck in that endeavor. Bring your checkbooks.
Those statutes simply piggyback on federal law, as you well know.

I haven't researched it but to my knowledge there have been no challenge to those statutes though they are unconstititonal under our state constitution.
Why? Because there would be no point as even when these laws were struck down by the state SC, arrests could still be made on Federal statute.

And honestly you think nobody carried concealed weapons into schools before 94 . Or since for that matter?
So the statutes just HAD to be written at open carry?.lol


All gun regulation that depends only on state authority is carefully directed at CC. Again as you know. Just as signs put up at the few state areas they occur all state "concealed deadly weapon.

As to informing state legislators of the state constitutional limit of their regulatory authority over firearms, I have as recently as yesterday.

Most DONT know it as a matter of fact.
Might remind them of it when your rubbing elbows in Frankfort. I do. Almost to a person they are startled to read it.

BTW, for your edification the limit on state regulatory power over guns is no 7 in the KY state bill of rights. You should maybe read it.

On a side note, it's nice to see your as grumpy as no 2 as you were when it was just gutshot lol.
 

gutshot II

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Messages
555
Location
Central Ky.
Those statutes simply piggyback on federal law, as you well know.
No, I don't know. What federal law is KRS 244.125 "piggybacked" on? What federal law is KRS 527.070 "piggybacked" on?


I haven't researched it but to my knowledge there have been no challenge to those statutes though they are unconstititonal under our state constitution.
Why? Because there would be no point as even when these laws were struck down by the state SC, arrests could still be made on Federal statute.
Are you saying there is a federal law prohibiting guns in bars? I haven't seen that one. Would you give us link? What federal law prohibits me from open carry in a school? What about the states where the state law allows carry on school property? There are 10 of them I believe. Are all of those people subject to arrest? When will those arrests begin? I haven't heard of them. Please quote these imaginary federal laws.

And honestly you think nobody carried concealed weapons into schools before 94 .
People have been breaking laws for a long time. What does that have to do with your exaggerated/false claims? In case you have forgotten what you wrote, here it is, "
For them to pass such a bill in KY and it stand a legal challenge, they first will need to amend the KY state constitution.


The State legislature is only empowered to prevent concealed carry.
Hence all state gun regulations clearly state "concealed deadly weapon".
Now, you say they "Piggyback" federal laws. Which is it? One is just as untrue as the other. What kind of BS will you make up next to cover your blunders?


Or since for that matter?
So the statutes just HAD to be written at open carry?.lol
That was my point. You said that could not happen. Now you are saying it had to happen. Which is it? I am just asking you to back up what you wrote? You won't address those questions, so I assume that you have no answers.

All gun regulation that depends only on state authority is carefully directed at CC.
Let's go back to KRS 244.125 again. What federal law prohibits loaded guns in bars and what federal law prohibits me from open carry in a school? Please post a link.

Again as you know. Just as signs put up at the few state areas they occur all state "concealed deadly weapon. Not true. You apparently haven't seen very many. I have seen plenty of signs that say "No Firearms Allowed", "No Weapons" and of course the all-inclusive "gun buster" signs that don't say anything. Just a picture of a gun with a red circle and slash. I guess that is limited to concealed carry, too.

As to informing state legislators of the state constitutional limit of their regulatory authority over firearms, I have as recently as yesterday.
Most DONT know it as a matter of fact.
I hope you make more sense when you talk to them than you make here. You could embarrass all of us.

Might remind them of it when your rubbing elbows in Frankfort. I do. Almost to a person they are startled to read it.
I bet they are startled by a lot of things you say. I certainly am.

BTW, for your edification the limit on state regulatory power over guns is no 7 in the KY state bill of rights. You should maybe read it.
Actually, it is in Section One, the First Right and the Seventh Right. You can see it here: http://www.lrc.ky.gov/KYConstitutionApp/Constitution/ViewConstitution?rsn=3


On a side note, it's nice to see your as grumpy as no 2 as you were when it was just gutshot lol.
Grumpy, me. I have just asked a few questions. I haven't gotten any answers yet. I guess you are used to people just accepting the BS that you put out as fact. When I get some reasonable answers, I will be happy.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
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11,817
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White Oak Plantation
None of the cases referenced a violation of possessing a firearm on "school property" where the school property was/is private property. Interesting reading on possession vs. use, thanks for the references.
 

Ghost1958

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Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
657
Location
Kentucky
Safe schools act.

I know you hate it but the KY state constitution says very plainly what it says. I didn't write it.

Unconstitutional laws exist because, like the tiny two you listed to try to make your point, we dont challenge them.
If there is a fed law doing the same as the two state laws you cited, there really is no point in challenging them on the state level. Even when thrown out the paid mercenaries will still enforce the fed version if ordered too.

You managed to quote two laws applying to firearms that haven't as far as I can find since last nite been challenged in KY SC.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
4,503
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
None of the cases referenced a violation of possessing a firearm on "school property" where the school property was/is private property. Interesting reading on possession vs. use, thanks for the references.
527.070 addresses public and private schools. One of those cases doesn't say if it is a public or private school, but public property that is not open to the public is considered private property by the courts.
 

gutshot II

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2017
Messages
555
Location
Central Ky.
Safe schools act.

I know you hate it but the KY state constitution says very plainly what it says. I didn't write it.

Unconstitutional laws exist because, like the tiny two you listed to try to make your point, we dont challenge them.
If there is a fed law doing the same as the two state laws you cited, there really is no point in challenging them on the state level. Even when thrown out the paid mercenaries will still enforce the fed version if ordered too.

You managed to quote two laws applying to firearms that haven't as far as I can find since last nite been challenged in KY SC.
Tiny two?? How may does it take to make you wrong? You said that it takes a constitutional amendment to pass just one of those? So, you admit that you are wrong about those two. BS on top of BS. You spread this dribble and expect to not be questioned. Get you information right before you post anything more and embarrass yourself further. The federal school law has an exception for those of us with a concealed carry license. KRS 527.070 does not. I can open carry at a school and not be in violation of any federal law. Not so with the state law. How is that "piggyback"? I guess you don't have any BS to cover KRS 244.125.
 

Ghost1958

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Nov 5, 2015
Messages
657
Location
Kentucky
No point. Your reading comprehension is on low.

As to carrying in bars ], one can, as you know, put pistol in holster loaded mag not in it and there is zip an officer can do.

Even loaded no arrest can be made, the officer can take the gun, which one will get back. I know it says forfeiture but I'd have to see a case where that occurred.

I'm sure there might be an isolated case or two of that law even attempting to be enforced but I can't find any nor ever knew of it.

End game. An unconstitutional law, fed or state is no law at all. Null and void from its passage. As if it were never written.
And, by SCOTUS own words no court ruling can legitimise an unconstitutional law.

Now. I'm through arguing with you over what the KY constitution plainly states. No 7 KY BOR. It's a, waste of time as anyone can read it.
 
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gutshot II

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Jul 1, 2017
Messages
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Location
Central Ky.
No point. Your reading comprehension is on low.

As to carrying in bars , one can, as you know, put pistol in holster loaded mag not in it and there is zip an officer can do.

Even loaded no arrest can be made, the officer can take the gun, which one will get back. That's as far as the state pushes it's luck on that.
Wrong again. Where do you get this stuff? Do you just make it up?

Generally, arrests are not made for misdemeanors in Ky. BUT in cases where the officer suspects that you will not show up for the hearing or if you refuse to follow his orders, he can make an arrest. KRS 415.035, read all of the details here:
http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Statutes/statute.aspx?id=48296

So now we have gone from laws about open carry cannot be passed without a constitutional amendment to well maybe just "two, tiny" ones to, "piggybacked" on federal law to well, they can't arrest you for this one, but I am not going to mention the one about schools anymore. Why don't you just admit that you were wrong and overstated the case? It is not a crime to be wrong. We have all done it. Most of us say"I was wrong, I am sorry." and move on. You just keep doubling down and weaseling. Now, what about schools? Can they arrest you there? It is a felony, you know. How are you going to try to twist your words about that? Here is what you originally wrote once again. Explain how this all fits together.
For them to pass such a bill in KY and it stand a legal challenge, they first will need to amend the KY state constitution.

The State legislature is only empowered to prevent concealed carry.
Hence all state gun regulations clearly state "concealed deadly weapon".


Well as I have clearly shown, they do NOT all clearly state concealed deadly weapon. There is also KRS 237.115 which grants colleges and universities the authority to "control" all weapons. This includes OC. No constitutional amendment there.

On several previous ocassions when we have had this discussion I have challenged you to open carry into a school if you think that law is unconstitutional. So far, I have not heard how that worked out for you. I suspect you did not attempt it. Wise decision.
 
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Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
657
Location
Kentucky
Wrong again. Where do you get this stuff? Do you just make it up?

Generally, arrests are not made for misdemeanors in Ky. BUT in cases where the officer suspects that you will not show up for the hearing or if you refuse to follow his orders, he can make an arrest. KRS 415.035, read all of the details here:
http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Statutes/statute.aspx?id=48296

So now we have gone from laws about open carry cannot be passed without a constitutional amendment to well maybe just "two, tiny" ones to, "piggybacked" on federal law to well, they can't arrest you for this one, but I am not going to mention the one about schools anymore. Why don't you just admit that you were wrong and overstated the case? It is not a crime to be wrong. We have all done it. Most of us say"I was wrong, I am sorry." and move on. You just keep doubling down and weaseling. Now, what about schools? Can they arrest you there? It is a felony, you know. How are you going to try to twist your words about that? Here is what you originally wrote once again. Explain how this all fits together.
For them to pass such a bill in KY and it stand a legal challenge, they first will need to amend the KY state constitution.

The State legislature is only empowered to prevent concealed carry.
Hence all state gun regulations clearly state "concealed deadly weapon".


Well as I have clearly shown, they do NOT all clearly state concealed deadly weapon. There is also KRS 237.115 which grants colleges and universities the authority to "control" all weapons. This includes OC. No constitutional amendment there.

On several previous ocassions when we have had this discussion I have challenged you to open carry into a school if you think that law is unconstitutional. So far, I have not heard how that worked out for you. I suspect you did not attet it. Wise decision.
Yes KY law makes exception for having guns in vehicles in school property. Look it up.

Why would I, simply to help you try to make a point, violate a Federal law? Or tell you on a public forum if I had?
I have no obligation to report what I do, when or where, to you sir.

One last time.
You know as well as I what the KY constitution states.
You managed to pull one KY law that simply mirrors a fed law on schools to try to shore up your contention that a regulation on anything but concealed weapons does not violate the KY constitution.

And another that plainly violates the KY constitution, about carrying in bars that I doubt you can find an instance of being enforced.
Even if you can, you won't find an arrest for carrying in a bar but a simple weapons forfeiture. That is all the Law YOU cited provides for. Doubt you can produce a case of that either.

Now. You have COL to argue with you.
I personally am tired of it as I'm pretty sure you enjoy it right or wrong.
 

gutshot II

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2017
Messages
555
Location
Central Ky.
Come back when you make up some new laws. There aren't many laws about open carry but it's not because of the constitution. It's because OC has been legal since 1792 and all the issues concerning OC have been settled by the courts long ago. It is common law. CC is only 21 years old so almost every new law is to settle that or to lessen or tighten restriction on that. They have passed laws restricting OC before and they can do it again by the same methods. You might scream about it but they won't care. I don't expect it any time soon.
 

Ghost1958

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Nov 5, 2015
Messages
657
Location
Kentucky
Come back when you make up some new laws. There aren't many laws about open carry but it's not because of the constitution. It's because OC has been legal since 1792 and all the issues concerning OC have been settled by the courts long ago. It is common law. CC is only 21 years old so almost every new law is to settle that or to lessen or tighten restriction on that. They have passed laws restricting OC before and they can do it again by the same methods. You might scream about it but they won't care. I don't expect it any time soon.

Simple question so please don't dodge it.
Does the KY constitution, no 7 in the BOR say
"
Seventh: The right to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the State, subject to
the power of the General Assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying
concealed weapons." or not.?

Before in our discussions you stoutly denied it states what it states.

Yes there are only 2 regulations that include open carry. A mirror of a federal law, and a law where the only penalty is forfeiture of the weapon that either has never been enforced or enforce so rarely that one cannot find a record of it.

And yes my argumentative friend, it IS because the legislature dare not push the issue of OC regulation any more than it has because it HAS NO SUCH AUTHORITY GRANTED TO it.

Now. Please stop. The KY constitution says what it says no matter how many times you refuse to admit it.
And with that, I'll allow you the last word sir.
 

OC for ME

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White Oak Plantation
527.070 addresses public and private schools. One of those cases doesn't say if it is a public or private school, but public property that is not open to the public is considered private property by the courts.
I understand. I am perplexed as to why a private school (private property) must abide by KRS 527.070. School administrators are notoriously anti-gun and anti-liberty and the question answers itself. It would be quite interesting if a private school ignored the law and then promoted the fact that the staff are armed and parents are too invited to be armed as they will on their private property.
 
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