Carrying in Columbus Oh.

[hogeaterf6]

Getting ready to look things up on my own but thought I'd ask here to.

Going to a concert in Columbus in March. I will be coming from Indiana. I know I can oc legally from Ind. I also have my Utah NR and plan on CC while in Ohio. Any places I cannot carry legally? Show is at the 'Schott' and dont know what their policies are. Also will be hitting a few bars. Rules for alcohol concumption and carring? Be taking a taxi also. Also we will be taking the wifes pistol. Any problems having it in her name but laying it in my vehicle? Dont want her to get in trouble since its in her name but wont be in her possesion.

 

[Chuck!]

Getting ready to look things up on my own but thought I'd ask here to.

Going to a concert in Columbus in March. I will be coming from Indiana. I know I can oc legally from Ind. I also have my Utah NR and plan on CC while in Ohio. Any places I cannot carry legally? Show is at the 'Schott' and dont know what their policies are.

You can't carry anyplace that's posted, and that ought to include "The Schott", which is on campus.
In fact, you can't "carry" anywhere on campus outside of your car, unless you are in the act of locking your gun up in your car.

2923.126 Duties of licensed individual.

(B)(5) Any premises owned or leased by any public or private college, university, or other institution of higher education, unless the handgun is in a locked motor vehicle or the licensee is in the immediate process of placing the handgun in a locked motor vehicle;

Also will be hitting a few bars. Rules for alcohol concumption and carring?

Carrying in a Class "D" liquor establishment is forbidden, unless you have an Ohio recognized Concealed Handgun License.
Consuming even the first sip while carrying is a FELONY, if you are in a bar or restaurant, Class "D" establishment.
You can consume while carrying elsewhere, say your hotel room, as long as you don't become "under the influence"

ORC 2923.121 Possession of firearm in beer liquor permit premises - prohibition, exceptions.

Be taking a taxi also. Also we will be taking the wifes pistol. Any problems having it in her name but laying it in my vehicle? Dont want her to get in trouble since its in her name but wont be in her possesion.

In "her name" with whom?
We have no such registration in Ohio, and there is no data base to check it against, other than guns reported stolen.

Carrying your wife's gun is no problem as long as it hasn't been reported stolen

 

[Makarov]

Hey chuck. Let’s give the correct information. You can carry in a class D liquor establishment that sells liquor without a CCW. If class D liquor is a bar, you need a CCW permit. Remember the law says class D liquor establishment where alcohol is consumed on the premises. That is a bar. There is no law in Ohio that bans guns from liquor selling establishments unless the owner of the establishment posts the Gun buster sign.

 

[RT48]

Show me where the law defines this as a "bar":

(A) No person shall possess a firearm in any room in which any person is consuming beer or intoxicating liquor in a premises for which a D permit has been issued under Chapter 4303. of the Revised Code or in an open air arena for which a permit of that nature has been issued.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.121

Also, I would be curious to know if this means you were carrying in alcohol-serving restaurants prior to Sept. 2011.

 

[eye95]

Carring in Columbus Oh.

There seem to be two requirements for that particular ban on carry:

One, there must be consumption going on in the room. Two, the premises must have a liquor license. It sure sounds as if either of those two conditions are not met, no license is required.


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<o>

 

[RCall]

 

[Chuck!]

Hey chuck. Let’s give the correct information. You can carry in a class D liquor establishment that sells liquor without a CCW. If class D liquor is a bar, you need a CCW permit. Remember the law says class D liquor establishment where alcohol is consumed on the premises. That is a bar. There is no law in Ohio that bans guns from liquor selling establishments unless the owner of the establishment posts the Gun buster sign.

Not quite true, Makarov
First of all, a "Class D" establishment may be either a restaurant, a bar, an outdoor arena, or a grocery store. Basically anyplace where one may purchase and consume on the premises.
And the law absolutely forbids carrying if ANYONE is consuming in the same room as the gun carrier (unless they have a CHL). This means even the cook in the kitchen will be committing a crime if he is carrying and some drunk wanders back there with his beer in his hand.

ORC 2923.121 Possession of firearm in beer liquor permit premises - prohibition, exceptions.

(A) No person shall possess a firearm in any room in which any person is consuming beer or intoxicating liquor in a premises for which a D permit has been issued under Chapter 4303. of the Revised Code or in an open air arena for which a permit of that nature has been issued.

This outlaws the act of carrying in those places if any alcohol is being consumed in that room or outdoor arena

Section (B)(1) lists the exceptions, (a)LEOs, (b)authorized state employees, (c)hotel rooms, and beginning with (d) CHL holders, LEOs etc, who hold the liquor permit, and (e) CHL holders who are not consuming alcohol

Sections (B)(2) excludes Veterans with rifles in Veteran's clubs if the rifle is not loaded, and (3) allows for displaying sale or trade at shows as long as they are unloaded.

Section (C) allows for an affirmative defense in such places while carrying long guns, but the OP specifically said handguns, not long guns.

This post links the actual law. Please feel free to quote the part that proves my advice to the OP was wrong.
Teach me something, Makarov
Expand my knowledge.
Show me how I am wrong

Your turn,
Batter up!!

 

[Chuck!]

Show me where the law defines this as a "bar":



http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.121

Also, I would be curious to know if this means you were carrying in alcohol-serving restaurants prior to Sept. 2011.

I don't think he should admit to committing a crime if he was carrying back then,,,,

 

[Makarov]

Chuck you said this...Carrying in a Class "D" liquor establishment is forbidden, unless you have an Ohio recognized Concealed Handgun License. Consuming even the first sip while carrying is a FELONY, if you are in a bar or restaurant, Class "D" establishment. You can consume while carrying elsewhere, say your hotel room, as long as you don't become "under the influence"

Chuck! My emphasis was...a class D liquor establishment that sells liquor only. No CCW is required there. Yes, if they consume liquor on premises that is usually a bar. Although there are some exceptions; some stores do have wine tasting events. That would support the CCW requirement only during the time of the event, but the way you first phased it in the threat lead to the idea that you cannot open carry in a store that sells liquor. Thats not true!

 

[Chuck!]

Unlicensed carry in any class D establishment in which another person is consuming is a felony, be it a bar, restaurant, stadium, or grocery store.

If you want to risk your freedom and criminal record by relying on the actions of another person, you can go right ahead
My advice stands


You, OTOH, stated "Remember the law says class D liquor establishment where alcohol is consumed on the premises. That is a bar."
Which is in direct conflict with the statute I linked to.

My advice still stands.

I cleared up any misunderstanding in my previous post already, something you still haven't done with the misinformation you posted

You're not trying to get our friend from Indiana arrested are you?

 

[Brian D.]

Chuck there are different kinds of Class D licenses, from D-1 to like D-8. Not all of them allow premises consumption of alcohol.

 

[Werz]

Chuck there are different kinds of Class D licenses, from D-1 to like D-8. Not all of them allow premises consumption of alcohol.

And it's not always obvious which ones do and which ones do not. There are several places nearby which are, by all appearances, just delicatessens, cafes, sandwich joints, etc., but which have a selection of beers which may be consumed on-premises, along with your lunch or dinner. To limit one's analysis to "bars" could easily place a non-licensee in the position of committing a felony. Chuck's cautionary explanations are well warranted.

 

[Chuck!]

Chuck there are different kinds of Class D licenses, from D-1 to like D-8. Not all of them allow premises consumption of alcohol.

Which is why I clarified it in my post #7

But think on this. The law doesn't specify D-1 or D-2, etc. It says simply: "No person shall possess a firearm in any room in which any person is consuming beer or intoxicating liquor in a premises for which a D permit has been issued under Chapter 4303. of the Revised Code or in an open air arena for which a permit of that nature has been issued."

It doesn't require that underlined "any person" to be consuming legally, just consuming.
The way I read it, a person could open a bottle and drink from it in a place they may not be allowed to drink in, and the unlicensed gun carrier is still committing a crime

What do you think?

 

[eye95]

Carring in Columbus Oh.

In order to be guilty of a crime, there must be criminal intent. I wouldn't want to be the test case, nor am I pushing anyone to put themselves into a position where they could become one, however I think it would be a winner in court to argue that someone else's criminal act, of which you are unaware, that causes your otherwise lawful activity to violate the law, cannot possibly create the (until then lacking) criminal intent on your part.

On a side note, does HB 495 change this bit of stupidity?


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[Chuck!]

The word you are seeking is "knowingly", which is not in this law.

I asked the legislators to add that word to the Restaurant Carry bill when I testified on it a couple years ago to prevent accidental felonies. They turned me down.

Ignorance is no excuse, as the saying goes,,,,

 

[Werz]

The word you are seeking is "knowingly", which is not in this law.

I asked the legislators to add that word to the Restaurant Carry bill when I testified on it a couple years ago to prevent accidental felonies. They turned me down.

Ignorance is no excuse, as the saying goes,,,,

When the culpable mental state is not specifically stated, it is recklessness, except where there is a clear intent for strict liability, which is rare, particularly for felony offense. Therefore, one need only act with heedless indifference to the consequences and perversely disregard a known risk that such circumstances are likely to exist. More simply put, "don't know, don't care."

 

[KYGlockster]

In order to be guilty of a crime, there must be criminal intent. I wouldn't want to be the test case, nor am I pushing anyone to put themselves into a position where they could become one, however I think it would be a winner in court to argue that someone else's criminal act, of which you are unaware, that causes your otherwise lawful activity to violate the law, cannot possibly create the (until then lacking) criminal intent on your part.

On a side note, does HB 495 change this bit of stupidity?


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This isn't entirely true. There are strict liability crimes where NO criminal intent is required to be convicted of the crime. An example is when someone causes damage or death due to their actions, regardless of whether it was their intent to cause that damage or death.

 

[eye95]

See the post above yours.

 

[eye95]

The saying is, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse," meaning that not knowing that an activity is illegal is no excuse for doing it, not meaning that ignorance of the actions of another that could turn your actions into a violation of the law isn't an excuse. It may well be.

 

[Chuck!]

ORC 2923.121

(E) Whoever violates this section is guilty of illegal possession of a firearm in a liquor permit premises. Except as otherwise provided in this division, illegal possession of a firearm in a liquor permit premises is a felony of the fifth degree. If the offender commits the violation of this section by knowingly carrying or having the firearm concealed on the offender’s person or concealed ready at hand, illegal possession of a firearm in a liquor permit premises is a felony of the third degree.