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City of Evansville still violating state pre-emption...

Grapeshot

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Property owned by the city of Evansville STILL explicitly state on their websites that firearms (including handguns) are not allowed.

Like Deaconess Sports Park, Victory Theater, and The Ford Center (Prohibited Items).

If they enforce this rule, it's in violation of state law.
Even if they do not enforce it and just post/advertise it, they have crossed the line and will falsely add to the gun free zones. The great ill informed masses will acept/believe what is offered for dinner w/o question.

Thanks for volunteering to correct these. :)
 
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Fallschirjmäger

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What law?
Please provide a cite, and a link.

Indiana Code > Title 35 > Article 47 > Chapter 11.1 > § 35-47-11.1-2 Political subdivision regulation of firearms, ammunition, and firearm accessories prohibited
Sec. 2. Except as provided in section 4 of this chapter [provided below], a political subdivision may not regulate:
(1) firearms, ammunition, and firearm accessories;
(2) the ownership, possession, carrying, transportation, registration, transfer, and storage of firearms, ammunition, and firearm accessories; and
(3) commerce in and taxation of firearms, firearm ammunition, and firearm accessories.​
As added by P.L.152-2011, SEC.4.​


[Referenced above]

Indiana Code § 35-47-11.1-4. Not prohibited by chapter
Sec. 4. This chapter may not be construed to prevent any of the following:
(1) A law enforcement agency of a political subdivision from enacting and enforcing regulations pertaining to firearms, ammunition, or firearm accessories issued to or used by law enforcement officers in the course of their official duties.
Terms Used In Indiana Code 35-47-11.1-4
corporation: A legal entity owned by the holders of shares of stock that have been issued, and that can own, receive, and transfer property, and carry on business in its own name.
jurisdiction: (1) The legal authority of a court to hear and decide a case. Concurrent jurisdiction exists when two courts have simultaneous responsibility for the same case. (2) The geographic area over which the court has authority to decide cases.
Property: includes personal and real property. See Indiana Code 1-1-4-5
(2) Subject to IC 34-28-7-2, an employer from regulating or prohibiting the employees of the employer from carrying firearms and ammunition in the course of the employee’s official duties.

(3) A court or administrative law judge from hearing and resolving any case or controversy or issuing any opinion or order on a matter within the jurisdiction of the court or judge.

(4) The enactment or enforcement of generally applicable zoning or business ordinances that apply to firearms businesses to the same degree as other similar businesses. However, a provision of an ordinance that is designed or enforced to effectively restrict or prohibit the sale, purchase, transfer, manufacture, or display of firearms, ammunition, or firearm accessories that is otherwise lawful under the laws of this state is void. A unit (as defined in IC 36-1-2-23) may not use the unit’s planning and zoning powers under IC 36-7-4 to prohibit the sale of firearms within a prescribed distance of any other type of commercial property or of school property or other educational property.

(5) Subject to IC 35-47-16-1, the enactment or enforcement of a provision prohibiting or restricting the possession of a firearm in any building that contains the courtroom of a circuit, superior, city, town, or small claims court. However, if a portion of the building is occupied by a residential tenant or private business, any provision restricting or prohibiting the possession of a firearm does not apply to the portion of the building that is occupied by the residential tenant or private business, or to common areas of the building used by a residential tenant or private business.

(6) The enactment or enforcement of a provision prohibiting or restricting the intentional display of a firearm at a public meeting.

(7) The enactment or enforcement of a provision prohibiting or restricting the possession of a firearm in a public hospital corporation that contains a secure correctional health unit that is staffed by a law enforcement officer twenty-four (24) hours a day.

(8) The imposition of any restriction or condition placed on a person participating in:
(A) a community corrections program (IC 11-12-1);
(B) a forensic diversion program (IC 11-12-3.7); or
(C) a pretrial diversion program (IC 33-39-1).

(9) The enforcement or prosecution of the offense of criminal recklessness (IC 35-42-2-2) involving the use of a firearm.

(10) For an event occurring on property leased from a political subdivision or municipal corporation by the promoter or organizer of the event:
(A) the establishment, by the promoter or organizer, at the promoter’s or organizer’s own discretion, of rules of conduct or admission upon which attendance at or participation in the event is conditioned; or
(B) the implementation or enforcement of the rules of conduct or admission described in clause (A) by a political subdivision or municipal corporation in connection with the event.​

(11) The enactment or enforcement of a provision prohibiting or restricting the possession of a firearm in a hospital established and operated under IC 16-22-2 or IC 16-23.

(12) A unit from using the unit’s planning and zoning powers under IC 36-7-4 to prohibit the sale of firearms within two hundred (200) feet of a school by a person having a business that did not sell firearms within two hundred (200) feet of a school before April 1, 1994.

(13) Subject to IC 35-47-16-1, a unit (as defined in IC 36-1-2-23) from enacting or enforcing a provision prohibiting or restricting the possession of a firearm in a building owned or administered by the unit if:
(A) metal detection devices are located at each public entrance to the building;
(B) each public entrance to the building is staffed by at least one (1) law enforcement officer:
(i) who has been adequately trained to conduct inspections of persons entering the building by use of metal detection devices and proper physical pat down searches; and
(ii) when the building is open to the public; and​
(C) each:
(i) individual who enters the building through the public entrance when the building is open to the public; and
(ii) bag, package, and other container carried by the individual; is inspected by a law enforcement officer described in clause (B). However, except as provided in subdivision (5) concerning a building that contains a courtroom, a unit may not prohibit or restrict the possession of a handgun under this subdivision in a building owned or administered by the unit if the person who possesses the handgun has been issued a valid license to carry the handgun under IC 35-47-2.​
As added by P.L.152-2011, SEC.4. Amended by P.L.6-2012, SEC.232; P.L.147-2014, SEC.3.​
 
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BB62

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Property owned by the city of Evansville STILL explicitly state on their websites that firearms (including handguns) are not allowed.

Like Deaconess Sports Park, Victory Theater, and The Ford Center (Prohibited Items).

If they enforce this rule, it's in violation of state law.
Now that Fallschirmjager has been kind enough to support your assertion by citing and linking to the relevant laws, let me reiterate CoL's question: what are you going to do about it?
 

ICBM

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However, except as provided in subdivision (5) concerning a building that contains a courtroom, a unit may not prohibit or restrict the possession of a handgun under this subdivision in a building owned or administered by the unit if the person who possesses the handgun has been issued a valid license to carry the handgun under IC 35-47-2.

Please note that very last sentence.
 
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ICBM

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McCordsville, IN
Now that Fallschirmjager has been kind enough to support your assertion by citing and linking to the relevant laws, let me reiterate CoL's question: what are you going to do about it?
1.) Take my handgun and permit to one of these venues, wear a body or glasses cam, activate sound recorder on phone.

2.) Go to entrance security checkpoint.

"Sir, firearms are prohibited in here."

"Here is my License to Carry Handgun"

"I'm sorry, rules say no firearms our weapons of any kind."

"Are you saying I can't come in when I have my handgun with my state issued carry license?"

"That's correct."

"Okay, if you say so."

3.) Call lawyer, provide him the evidence, file civil suit against Evansville.

4.) ???

5.) Profit!!!!
 
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BB62

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May I suggest an alternative (or additional) step?

The people at the checkpoints, and/or the LEOs who may be summoned to venues such as you identified, likely think that signage or other communications to the public reflects the law.

The only people who will change their minds are their superiors, as directed by the law department.

For that reason I suggest that you put together a note to the head of the law department, spelling out what is being communicated to the public, and why such purported prohibitions do not comply with the law. Ask when the communications will be changed.

If that step fails, move on to a notice - a restatement of your earlier communication, and of your intent to carry in those places. Carbon copy the media on your notice.

Along those lines, here's an example of what I did with the Dayton RTA: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?135089-Dayton-RTA-(transit-system)-Open-Carry-Bus-Ride(s)

I hope this helps, and please keep up posted.
 

Fallschirjmäger

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However, except as provided in subdivision (5) concerning a building that contains a courtroom, a unit may not prohibit or restrict the possession of a handgun under this subdivision in a building owned or administered by the unit if the person who possesses the handgun has been issued a valid license to carry the handgun under IC 35-47-2.

Please note that very last sentence.
Is that applicable in this instance though? Does Deaconess Sports Park, Victory Theater, or the Ford Center contain courtrooms?
 

color of law

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No courtrooms in any. One is a baseball park, the second is a classical theater, the Ford Center is a hockey rink / auditorium type venue.
BB62 provided you a lot on good advise about notice. However, you have a lot more leg work to do before you even send notice. There is a difference between leasing the facilities and managing the facilities or both. To find that out you need to do open records requests to the city for the agreements/contracts between parties. This is a big deal. Generally, if they are leased for a flat fee payed to the city you may have a problem; if city facilities are only managed by a private management company that is a different story.

So, it looks like you have a lot of work to do before you start an attack.
 
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ICBM

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BB62 provided you a lot on good advise about notice. However, you have a lot more leg work to do before you even send notice. There is a difference between leasing the facilities and managing the facilities or both. To find that out you need to do open records requests to the city for the agreements/contracts between parties. This is a big deal. Generally, if they are leased for a flat fee payed to the city you may have a problem; if city facilities are only managed by a private management company that is a different story.

So, it looks like you have a lot of work to do before you start an attack.
The Ford Center appears to be owned by the city and managed by a company called VenuWorks.

It says so, just under the main site banner.
 

color of law

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True, I do appreciate both of your guys input. Here is this news piece about the city's Redevelopment Commission extending their management contract.
That's fine and dandy, but what does the contract say? Does the contract say that the management company has to comply with all state laws. As I said, what you don't know can burn you.
 
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BB62

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... However, you have a lot more leg work to do before you even send notice. There is a difference between leasing the facilities and managing the facilities or both. To find that out you need to do open records requests to the city for the agreements/contracts between parties. This is a big deal. Generally, if they are leased for a flat fee payed to the city you may have a problem; if city facilities are only managed by a private management company that is a different story.

So, it looks like you have a lot of work to do before you start an attack.
Good catch, and excellent advice.
 

ICBM

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That's fine and dandy, but what does the contract say? Does the contract say that the management company has to comply with all state laws. As I said, what you don't know can burn you.
Ah... Okay, I see what your saying now.

I found this PDF addendum of the contract in this thread. It does not mention "Lease", only "License for Usage of the Evansville Arena," which I don't think constitutes a lease.
 
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color of law

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Ah... Okay, I see what your saying now.

I found this PDF addendum of the contract in this thread. It does not mention "Lease", only "License for Usage of the Evansville Arena," which I don't think constitutes a lease.
The five-year lease agreement for the new SPHL team to play at the Ford Center.
http://media.jrn.com/documents/License+of+the+Ford+Center+(2016)+v4+ZSWS.pdf
Paragraph 13 of the contract/lease.
13. LAW OBSERVANCE: Licensee agrees that its employees, agents, officers, and contractors shall abide by, conform to and comply with all the laws of the United States and the State of Indiana, and all of the ordinances of the City of Evansville and County of Vanderburgh, Indiana, and the rules and regulations of Licensor for the government and management of said premises, together with all rules and requirements of the Police and Fire Departments of the City of Evansville and/or the County of Vanderburgh, Indiana, and will not do, nor suffer to be done, anything on said premises during the term of this License in violation of any such laws, ordinances, rules, regulations and requirements, and, if the attention of said Licensee is called to a violation on the part of the Licensee or any person employed by or admitted to said premises by said Licensee, said Licensee will immediately desist from and correct such violation. Licensee shall indemnify and hold Licensor harmless from all claims, lawsuits, damages and demands (including attorney fees) caused by Licensee's violation of the law.
If Indiana law allows conceal carry in sport complexes then they agreed to not violate Indiana law.
 
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