Do some of you think....

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[UTOC-45-44]

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[GeneticsDave]

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sfemti33 wrote:

Cykaos wrote:

You exercise your rights when you feel it is needed or warranted. I don't think you should need to exercise them all every day. As for carrying a firearm for self defense it is something you do everyday. Not because you have to exercise the right but simply because you want protection everyday from the unexpected. The whole point of your rights is that you have the right to do something. You aren't required to do it or have to do it every day. There are some rights I exercise everyday and others that I do once a week, once a month, once a year, once every 4 years etc. It doesn't mean that any one of those is more important than another. You just exercise that right when you feel it is needed.

Thank you again. Do you feel the need to OC while watering your lawn? Or do you only do it when you are off property? Not me being flippant this time just curious where you feel your self defense is and isnt warranted.

Could you be attacked while watering your lawn? Sure. So yes, I OC everywhere, even in my house. It goes on with my clothes and comes off at night as well. Sure, I could have it with me all the time (sleeping/showering), but that's a little too much hassle for me - and I always have a gun within short reach inside my home

Oh, and for the Q 3 pages back, yes, I do have my CFP. I bought my first gun because I had a baby and felt that I needed something to protect him with. That was all fine and well until I started asking myself, "What about when I'm/we're not at home?" So then I got my permit. While I was waiting for my permit to arrive, the Trolley Square incident happened, just reaffirming my reasons for obtaining it. It wasn't until about 8 months of uncomfortable and awkward concealed carry that I even learned about open carry. Then it took a few more months to try it out - I was concerned about being a target if I OC'd - I had the same concerns you do. Once I did it a few times and learned a bit more about both sides of the argument, I personally knew that OC was the way to go. Sure, I still CC on occasions, but OC is my main method.

As Scotty said, it's a personal choice, I don't fault anyone for CC or OC, the fact that they carry is what's important in my mind. I DO recommend that everyone try both methods (legally) and see what suits them. Many people I have suggested this to have "caught the bug" and love OCing!

 

[xRapidDavex]

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sfemti33 wrote:

You mean that they ARE of age and still DO NOT have a permit ? Is that your Q?

They just don;'t want Government involvement more than neccesary in life and to OC WITHOUT a permit is a CONSTITUTIONALLY protected RIGHT.

To have a CFP is a PRIVILEGE by the State/Government.

TJ

Yes, that is my question. So do you speak for everyone on this board, or can anyone else tell me reasons why you wouldnt want a CCW besides "government involvement"? I understand its a Constitutionally protected right, you dont need to use all CAPS. Im trying to understand what each individuals motivation is. Really dont want to get into a debate, this is purely observational at this point for me. I have had a CCW for 5 years, Im in Law Enforcement, Im just a curious lurker.:shock:

Good Lord dude.... let people have a chance to respond. Seems like you're jumping down throats. I don't have one but am waiting for it.

I OC becuase

Its a political statement
Its a chance to educate others who don't know we CAN do it in Utah
Its more comfortable
I don't have to worry about people seeing it under my shirt, its just already there
I have to at this moment without a permit

Will I carry openly with my permit? yes. Why? Because I CAN.

I'm getting the permit for personal reasons I don't care to divulge here.

 

[xRapidDavex]

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sfemti33 wrote:

Off on another tangent, I wonder if each and every one of you exercise your "rights" on a daily basis as well.

Do you "peacably assemble" every time you go out of your house?1st amendment also states you have the right to "free exercise of religion",

do you display proudly on your shirt every time you walk out of your house what religion you may be? LDS, Jewish, Catholic, Muslim, do you openly display that? And if you DONT do that every day, why not?

Is there a caste system with regards to how "important" your rights are?

Has each and every one of you voted in EVERY election since you were 18, another right given you?

If you do, I applaud you for securing and using every one of your rights daily. I wish I had the character to do that, all I can say is I am trying.

But if you dont, why are you making the sticking point firearms? Doesnt that make it a bit hypocritical if you assert your "rights" on one thing all the time, but not your others?

Hell, it even makes me hypocritical if I want to use one right or another. Where does it end? Or begin for that matter?

Dude, seriously, LAY OFF! For me, this line of questioning is becoming an annoyance fast. First you jump down everyone's throats to ask PERSONAL reasons why they OC in a nonchalant manner, and then you start name calling?

Look up the word hypocrisy, it means: "claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform"

Find me ONCE INSTANCE on this board when someone said we should exercise ALL of our rights daily, or that specifically, we should exercise our right to religion by wearing symbols on our clothing AND THEN I'll quiet down.

Until then, you need to check yourself.

Why did we get into this debate on hypocrisy anyways?

 

[xRapidDavex]

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sfemti33 wrote:

UTOC-45-44 wrote:

Just out of curiosity ?? Are you a WVC Officer, sfemti33???

TJ

No, Im not a West Valley Officer. Are you trying to poke jabs at me because I bring a differing view from your limitless knowledge? Or are you just being facetious because you would never want to trample on my rights, or be disrespectful, in any way. I know you wish others to respect your rights, I can only assume you would do the same. Was that a poor assumption on my part?

Nope, just poking jabs at someone who won't stop poking us. I bet you never stopped to consider that your questions may not want to be answered because you ask them like we're debating something in congress or like we're on trial for being a witch.

Its pretty obvious what your view is, so why do you constantly shovel your view on us? We don't come to your website (if you had one) or your home to tell you to carry and I don't feel we have to justify ourselves either.

Maybe if you would be more tactful with your questioning, I would be more willing to respond in a courteous manner.... but instead, what you do, is come off combative.

 

[scorpioajr]

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GenkiSudo wrote:

....that the only reason you OC is to try and get a negative reaction?

Wheather its OCing or CCing: This is your answer:

http://munchkinwrangler.blogspot.com/2007/03/why-gun-is-civilization.html

 

[Kevin Jensen]

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xRapidDavex wrote:

Nope, just poking jabs at someone who won't stop poking us. I bet you never stopped to consider that your questions may not want to be answered because you ask them like we're debating something in congress or like we're on trial for being a witch.

Its pretty obvious what your view is, so why do you constantly shovel your view on us? We don't come to your website (if you had one) or your home to tell you to carry and I don't feel we have to justify ourselves either.

Maybe if you would be more tactful with your questioning, I would be more willing to respond in a courteous manner.... but instead, what you do, is come off combative.

Are you done venting yet?

 

[xRapidDavex]

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SGT Jensen wrote:

xRapidDavex wrote:

Nope, just poking jabs at someone who won't stop poking us. I bet you never stopped to consider that your questions may not want to be answered because you ask them like we're debating something in congress or like we're on trial for being a witch.

Its pretty obvious what your view is, so why do you constantly shovel your view on us? We don't come to your website (if you had one) or your home to tell you to carry and I don't feel we have to justify ourselves either.

Maybe if you would be more tactful with your questioning, I would be more willing to respond in a courteous manner.... but instead, what you do, is come off combative.

Are you done venting yet?

I'm just sick of these people coming here and not asking their questions in a tactful way. Do you think I went too far?

 

[Utah_Patriot]

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May I ask the OP what department do you work for ?

Also I might state the reason's I choose to openly carry a firearm.



I believe that by openly carrying a firearm it is a great deterrence against anyone thinking about committing a crime.

When I drive my vehicle or motorcycle I do not have to worry about getting it from out of my shirt or jacket.

A person who is concealing a firearm still has to reach under their shirt to grab the firearm drawing attention to themselves as well.

As far as my family goes I choose to protect them anyway I can. By carrying a firearm out in the open tells the criminal to find another target.

As far as my rights go I believe fully in my writes afforded to me by the constitution. I contributed several years in the United States Army defending the rights have afforded to me and my family.

I would gladly step forward as a citizen and defend a stranger even if I knew that I had to put my life on the line to save another person.

Finally why do Law Enforcement carry their firearms out in the open if you state that it is a bad tactic and dangerous to do so. The reason the mere presence of a firearm is a step in the force continuum. By carrying your firearm out in the open you make a statement about who you are and what you believe

 

[scorpioajr]

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I carry b/c I can't physically run away from an assailant....my .02

 

[Cykaos]

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I'm just sick of these people coming here and not asking their questions in a tactful way. Do you think I went too far?

Yes. I think regardless of how the questions are asked you should try and respond in a clear level headed way instead of with emotion. If someone is trolling and you respond with anger, sarcasm, insults, etc you are only sinking to their level. By getting defensive and responding in such a way it only affirms in their own minds the ignorant idea that we are irrational violent people.

Some of his questions and responses were inappropriate while others showed a desire to see how others view a subject.

What we need to do in all situations whether it be discussion with someone who is genuinely curious to someone who is just anti and looking for a fight is to react calmly and explain our position and thoughts in well thought out manner. If they want a fight don't give it to them. If they are really curious then answer their questions as clearly as you can. Getting pissed off is not going to win anyone over regardless of their intentions. Being polite may convince someone or it may not. You might win or you might remain in the same situation but at least you haven't lost anything.

This is just my own opinion. I just think we should treat everyone with respect and how we ourselves would like to be treated regardless of how they act. Prove that you are the better man by not lowering yourself to their level.

I am not saying you lowered yourself to their level. I think your responses were a little much but I have seen worse. This isn't directed solely at you but my opinion in general on how we should respond to trolls and other curious people alike.

 

[thx997303]

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Man, where was I when this discussion started?

I OC because of my age, my wife, and my daughter.

Myself last.

 

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[GenkiSudo]

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ProtectedBy9mm wrote:

GenkiSudo wrote:

....that the only reason you OC is to try and get a negative reaction?

Wheather its OCing or CCing: This is your answer:

http://munchkinwrangler.blogspot.com/2007/03/why-gun-is-civilization.html

Can't say I really agree with that post as a whole. While I agree about the general theme of reason vs force. Saying just because a 100 pound woman iscarrying I cannot deal with her by force. Not sure if you've seen or read the numbers on peoples own weapons being used on them but having a weapon does not automatically put you on an even footing. A gun does not automatically "removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender". Let's take a friend of my ex who was carrying and brandished at a get together in Murray a couple of years ago....he was outnumbered, his weapon was taken away and he was shot in the ass with it, luckily he wasn't killed. There are countless instances where the exact opposite of that article happens....as I'm sure there are just as many undocumented cases where that is the truth. It's the overconfidence of that article that could lead to big trouble....and I've read countless posts and articles of both sides, I'd prefer what folks think themselves than regurgitating others thoughts. In general I'd agree with that post but there's always that instance when everything thought there goes out the window with that false sense of security.

Gunsfreak....I'll edit out my department, don't need any complaints or other folks assuming my opinion is that of my departments. THX....today is another day

And don't take what folks say personal....especially online. Rapid....while you may be sick of folks not asking in a tactful way, responding back in that way just gives the casual browser of this forum a bad view of its members in general. And besides, I think the majority of the questions were asked tactfully....femmy was probably just trying to get folks riled up, nothing wrong with a little thought provoking banter.

 

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[GenkiSudo]

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GeneticsDave wrote:

GenkiSudo wrote:

Instead of folks getting all e-hurt and throwing the insults, how about just answering some questions or asking some back in a civilized manner?

Where better to ask questions about OC than an OC board? I'm not against OC in the least....just making a casual observation about some of the proponents of OC. Call names, cite others work all you want....I would rather have someone have an adult discussion about what THEY think and not others thoughts on OC as a deterrent.

I agree with it being a deterrent...I can also see it being a bullseye painted on your hip.

The question you asked was, "Do some of you think that the only reason you OC is to try and get a negative reaction?" It was YOUR question that made you look like a troll, not my response. And calling someone a troll is not name calling, it's a standard internet forum term:

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

Your extra little cut and paste box messed up my post.....here's what I wrote:

It's a standard internet term that is used as derrogatory and doesn't pertain to what I posted. It was on-topic since it was both valid to this forum and my post which is the current topic. And as was said in the following paragraph on my initial post, it was not meant as a flame or to stir up @#$%....I asked a legitimate question based on my observations of this forum. Thankfully there have been enough honest replies that other folks coming here to browse can find out some info before thinking the same thing.

After reading some more threads yesterday it seems that some folks are happy that they aren't getting a reaction and that the ordinary Joe Citizen, who might not be comfortable with it, isn't directly saying anything about it. But the way that several posts are written, it appears that people are LOOKING to be confronted and are disappointed when they aren't so they can't exercise their rights. Whether or not that is the case or they're just posted that they went to a certain place and didn't have any negative encounters....I have no idea but on the internet there's very little you can do that sets the tone of a post and the words are read as they are written without reading into it. Well if that sentence makes sense, I'm still working on my first cup of coffee

 

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[scorpioajr]

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Just a friendly visual aid:

 

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