Do you honor "Off Limits" signs?

[Bill in VA]

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asforme wrote:

47 wrote:

ITS MY LIFE, and thier HOUSE is lesser than my LIFE

Then you should make the decision not to come into their house, not to violate their property rights and come in armed against their will.

+1. (I thought I was the only one still believing in respecting another's property rights.)

 

[frommycolddeadhands]

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Haven't come across an anti-gun sign in any stores yet. I don't think the sheeple around here have any idea that people actually carry concealed weapons. :what:If I did I would probably respect the sign, but have a word with the manager. If I was feeling really froggy I'd organize a boycott of their establishment, make sure to take count of how many people's business he was currently losing, and mail him a letter calculating his net losses for the year. (Just to give him something to mull around in that noggin of his.)

:celebrate

 

[frommycolddeadhands]

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double post

 

[frommycolddeadhands]

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Triple post!

 

[frommycolddeadhands]

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Quadruple post

 

[frommycolddeadhands]

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Fifth post

 

[Task Force 16]

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If we expect others to respect our rights, we MUST respect the rights of others. Otherwise, we'll be doing this all the time ----> :banghead:

 

[Armed]

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WARCHILD wrote:

I have a real concern about the content of this thread. The members of this forum are inmy opinion, good upstanding and moral people. Therefore it puzzles me to see a rather "braggard" attitude to ignore a sign on private property. Forget that it is a business, it's still "private property".

I must respectfully disagree. While a business may be a private enterprise, a business is still subject to a liteny of public law and oversight. A restaurant for example, is subject to health inspections. Most businesses can be held accountable for such things as discrimination and civil rights violations of their employees. So why is it, that we as responsible gun owners - have to leave OUR civil rights at the doorstep?

Again - we're talking about a business, not someone's private property such as their home where the expectation of property rights are much higher. A business openly solicites the general public to visit and to conduct a transaction.

I generally avoid such businesses, but in the rare circumstances where I have no choice, Icarred concealed and try to make it "quick". In the future I will also make it a point to letthem know whyI won't be coming back.

 

[Sonora Rebel]

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I honor all such posted signs. It's private property (usually) but I'm not gonna split hairs. IfI have no concern about possible need in whatever environment... Then I'll leave it in the truck... or go elsewhere. Not a big deal.

 

[cloudcroft]

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What signs? :shock:

Only a metal detector is a deterrent...

-- John D.

 

[cccook]

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While I find this an interesting topic for discussion, I would not want to post an answer to the question "Do you honor 'off limits signs'?" on the inter-net. How many posts have we read about not volunteering information that may or may not harm us later. If I would not relinquish my right to not be unreasonably searched why would I give up the right not to incriminate myself? Theoretically speaking of course.

I'm just saying, we should all be careful. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. Hmmmm... where have I heard that?

 

[RayBurton72]

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Warchild: I certainly see your point about respect, and agree such businesses do not deserve my business, but, assuming I HAVE to go there...

- If the sign doesn't conform to the legal requirements, I will ignore it (since it isn't a binding sign - the legislature spelled out how they should post it, if they can't be bothered to follow the law, I won't be bothered to disarm [since the law says I do not have to]).

- If the state is a trespass state (where signs are not legally binding) then I will go conceal and if asked to leave, will honor the request.

- if (like my home state of NC), such signs ARE legally binding and failure to honor them is a misdemeanor, I will (quite reluctantly) dis-arm, do my business and keep looking for somewhere else to go shopping

I do not feel that any other these practices "violates" any property rights, as all are exactly as intended (IMHO) by the legislature when they crafted the statute.

For any store that posts no weapons, I will (and do) inform the management that I am doing as little business with them as I can, mention how much business I do elsewhere and explain why

 

[WellArmedFarmBoy]

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One thing I've not seen anyone mention is carrying your weapon to work. Here in OK, an employer has the right to tell you that you can't carry a weapon anywhere onto their property. This even includes in your locked vechicle in the parking lot.

If I'm driving the truck, I carry anyway but if I'm riding the motorcycle, I'm faced with the dilema of carrying my weapon into the building and if searched, I could loose my job. So it basically boils down to, do I protect my life by carrying my weapon or be a good company man and adhear to their ridiculous policies...

 

[PT111]

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I am only completely familiar with the laws on signs in SC but from what I can tell in most states they are about as screwed up as can be and completely worthless.

If a store owner were to put up a sign saying no dogs except guide dogs, must have on clothes, no radios etc. would you honor them. Can they legally be enforced? These things I don't know.

In SC the signs must meet legal requirements and if they do then the store owner does not have to tell you to leave. All he has to do is call the police and have you arrested. The signs are the same as if he had told you to leave. As I understand in some states they can put up any sign they want to but have to tell you to leave and give you an option to leave. What is the purpose of the sign? That would be like posting a 55mph speed limit but if you are caught you have to be told to slow down and only iof you don't can you be charged.

In SC if the signs meet I will honor those signs. If they do not meet the requirements then I treat them as if they did not exist. I think in those states where the signs don't mean anything then the legislatures need to get off their butts and get rid of the confusing wording and tell businesses what they have to do one way or the other.

I saw a sign in SC the otehr day that did not meet the requirements, was not even close. I did not carry in that location becauseitwas off-limits to start with anda sign was not needed.

I suppose I am just tired ofreading all the arguments about the signswhen no one seems to actually know or at least agree on what they mean. I think that a merchant should be required to express his desires one way or the other and then the public be required to honor those desires. Either put up a sign that means something or don't put up anything.


http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum7/14689.html

This thread is about proof on Wal-Marts policy. Dang we shouldn't have this discussion. Wal-Mart should be required to put up a sign (of standard legal type) or not harass people carrying. If they aren't going to go to the trouble of telling me that I can't carry then leave me alone. Personally I like the way SC handles it.

 

[Utah_Patriot]

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I do not put any weight to restrictive signs in Utah unless it is a off limit place like a federal building or a courthouse. Under Utah law these sign carry no weight

 

[okiephlyer]

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I was in Daytona beach last week and, as usual, looked up some local gun stores to shop and generally hang out. Every store I went to was posted, so I left without entering. I feel that if they don't want me to legally carry in their store, then they don't want my business. This especially hurts when the very people you would expect to welcome you turn you away.

I have OC'd in many gun shops in the Manassas, VA area and was always welcomed. I will do business where I am welcomed.

 

[Gator5713]

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I believe that in some states there are laws restricting carrying while purchasing ammo and that could be the basis for the gun store prohibiting carrying. Also since there are so many guns being handled by so many people it is not so much of a 'we don't want guns here' as it is a safety and controlled environment issue. The local indoor range/gun shop here has a policy of entering with your firearm open and obviously unloaded. The way I see it, the BG is not very likely to rob a gun shop and for practicality purposes I am not offended by their policy.
Otherwise, I have in the past walked into 'no gun' stores and immediately asked for a manager to question their reasoning with a variety of responses:
I have been asked to vacate and not return (thank you I will take my and my friends business elsewhere)
I have been told "thats just our policy..." (thank you I will take my and my friends business elsewhere)
I have been told that I seem like a 'good guy' and been given 'individual' permission to carry. (I find this one odd, and try to take my business elsewhere, but will return if need be)
I have had some interesting discussions resulting in signage being removed due to the management being 'converted'. (I tell my friends to shop there!)

 

[Gator5713]

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FiremanJoe wrote:

(usuallly for me would be barI work, or goverment bldg, or work (a financial investment firm).

Here in Texas there is an exception to the 51% law for the managers of a bar. I have a number of friends that are bar owners and a few of them have even made me a 'manager' at least for special events....
So unless I misunderstood what you meant here (Meaning that to me it appears that you work at a bar) I would talk with the manager about the possibility of you remaining armed at work!

 

[shad0wfax]

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47 wrote:

I carry everywhere , posted or not. I ignore all off limits signs ( then I CC of course) and the only place I respect (sort of) is the post office:cuss:, since I think it may be a felony, other than that I carry 100% of the time and never leave my sidearm in the car.

I'm not under man's law on this one, I'm under God's law and I'm responsible for the lives of my wife and kids and those innocent people that are around me at any given tme...period.

I'm not bound to honor any man that will not allow me to defend myself...period. I'd rather be arrested then be like that lady in Killeen Texas, could you imagine her remorse for obeying the "law"...sad, very sad, the blood of many innocent people almost on her hands.

How about you?

Do you ever leave it in the car?

When and why?

I carry to protect my life, not to be a guinea pig in supreme court cases. With that in mind, I follow all of the federal and state laws pertaining to carrying firearms in my state. Since my state has very strong preemption clauses, municipal laws cannot be any more extensive than state laws.

However, when I see "no firearms" signs on private property such as certain businesses or "no weapons" signs on certain mass-transit vehicles (where they legally can't restrict lawful concealed carry) I ignore them, because the law is on my side. The worst thing that could possibly happen to me in these cases is that the private establishment will inform me that I am violating their policy and ask me to leave and any attempt by me to stay would be trespassing. It has never come up.

Again, the law is on my side. Sure, the second amendment guarantees us the right to carry firearms and protects us from infringement of that right. Furthermore, the tenth amendment specifically (and redundantly)prevents the federal government from making laws that aren't specifically granted in the constitution, but good luck getting a judge to interpret the constitution that way today. Again, I'm not an insanely rich man intent on becoming a ____ vs state/US legal precedent in a lawbook somewhere.