Decoligny
Regular Member
imported post
Here is a new flowchart that I created. I welcome any feedback or suggestions for improvements.
Here is a new flowchart that I created. I welcome any feedback or suggestions for improvements.
I think you're on to something here. The first box or two should be to determine if the person is even in a location where 12031(e) checks would be permissible. This is logical, and also serves the purpose of emphasizing that "e" checks are not permissible in some instances.Couldn't we add a few more boxes and have a complete open carry flowchart?
Say we add "In a state park?" to the top, followed by "in an incorporated area?", branching into the loaded section that is here for yes and no asking "in a place where it is legal to discharge a weapon". After the loaded check we can check to see if the person is within 1000' of a school...and I think that might be about it.
The problem with that is, your long gun can be both loaded and unloaded at the same time, according to PC vs F&G. You can be in violation of PC 12031 while not in violation of FG 2006. This area of law is not black and white, due to the fact that the "prohibited area" language can be triggered in unusual ways.Also, hunting.
Is it inherently ambiguous (according to the law) or merely complicated?deforcer wrote:The problem with that is, your long gun can be both loaded and unloaded at the same time, according to PC vs F&G. You can be in violation of PC 12031 while not in violation of FG 2006. This area of law is not black and white, due to the fact that the "prohibited area" language can be triggered in unusual ways.Also, hunting.
Not exactly. There is an exception to 12025, concealed. But not for 12031 (loaded). The simple fact is, usually when you are hunting, you are in a non-prohibited area of unincorporated territory. But let's say you are within 150 yards of a camp ground in a NF. In that case 12031 still applies. The simple way to deal with this is to not even consider FG 2006. You've likely already violated 12031 by the time you violate 2006.I thought there was some exception to the loaded laws for people engaged in othehwise lawful hunting and target shooting activities.
What about heading away/to your truck? I hike in The Angeles Forest and most times do not park in trail heads but just pull of the road. When walking back to my truck I keep my shotgun chambered in the off chance that somebody is doing something they shouldn't. Do I need to have a clear chamber once within 150 feet of the road?
If it is a designated road, technically, per CA PC 12031 and CFR 36 CFR 261.10 (d) you need to empty the shotgun on or adjacent to the road, and not just clear the chamber, but empty the magazine. Since the tubular magazine is attached (I assume) it must also be unloaded to meet the definition. Again, this is per CA PC. Per Fish and Game code section 2006 you need only empty the chamber.
What does all this conflicting code mean? In all probability it means that a Game Warden would only care if you have a round in the chamber, and a forest service LEO probably doesn't even care if it's loaded, since according to CFR you just can't be shooting there. But if you ran into a gung-ho sheriff's deputy he might cite you for 12031.
Now if you are hunting, then you would seem to be able to keep the rounds in the magazine. F&G code only requires you to remove the round from the chamber near the road. And 12031 contains this:
Nothing in this section shall prevent any person from carrying a loaded firearm in an area within an incorporated city while engaged in hunting, provided that the hunting at that place and time is not prohibited by the city council.
Now this exemption refers specifically to incorporated city, but that is probably because when the law was drafted nobody assumed 12031 would even apply on a country road in unincorporated territory (which it does now due to shooting prohibitions triggering the "prohibited area" language). It would stand to reason that this exemption would therefore also extend to unincorporated territory. Of course, this is opinion and opinions vary!
Furhter, if you are hunting, or using any hunting related code exemptions, you need to watch out for the lead ammo ban.
Then this should definitely be part of the flow chart. (It may end up being as complicated as the AW chart.)Not exactly.
Yep, but only if you have a CCW permit.Has anyone heard about the new federal law that allows carrying weapons (concealed, as I recall)in national parks? I don't remember when it becomes effective. Probably sometime next year. Google it. I read about it in the newspaper about two months ago. Apparently, the line item (read pork)was squeezed in; you know, some congressman got his way with an intern, and let it slip in. That's politics in Washington DC. But for once in our favor. Wow! You got to love pork fat :lol:
Bull Frog :celebrate
You are confusing the old rule change (Bush order) with the recent new legislation, which was inserted into the credit card bill (and signed into law by Obama).Bull Frog wrote:Yep, but only if you have a CCW permit.Has anyone heard about the new federal law that allows carrying weapons (concealed, as I recall)in national parks? I don't remember when it becomes effective. Probably sometime next year. Google it. I read about it in the newspaper about two months ago. Apparently, the line item (read pork)was squeezed in; you know, some congressman got his way with an intern, and let it slip in. That's politics in Washington DC. But for once in our favor. Wow! You got to love pork fat :lol:
Bull Frog :celebrate
And this was just recently made illegal, so this is just rewinding the clock about a year. Not a huge victory, especially considering the horrible legislation we had to swallow to get it passed. The average NRA member was advised to count it as a major victory. IMO it was a horrible tradeoff.