• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Lawsuit against OSU

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,304
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80917

I'm scratching my head. All I get out of the suit is OFCC/SCCC wants students to be allowed to open carry on campus. If that's what they are attempting to do, great. But, the truth of the matter is if OSU attempted to punish a student for open carry on campus OSU would find themselves in an untenable position of a federal 1983 suit.

One of the major problems is the plaintiffs did not do their home work. The suit refers to the Ohio Administrative Code §3335-23-01. The problem is there is no Ohio Administrative Code §3335-23-01.

This section 3335-23-01 is a section from the OSU Bylaws.
 
Last edited:

JediSkipdogg

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
Messages
139
Location
Batavia
It's much more than carry on campus. Right now a student or employee of OSU can't even keep a firearm in their vehicle as it's a violation of either university employment policy or the student code of conduct. And neither of those discipline actions would result in a 1983 suit.
 

since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
Students Sue Ohio State Over Bizarrely Broad Anti-Gun Rules

Link.

Excerpt: "Students for Concealed Carry and another gun-rights group have filed a civil suit in state court against Ohio State University, alleging that the school’s anti-gun policy is so breathtaking in its scope that it is illegal under state law. The gun-rights advocates say the policy bans students from carrying firearms when they aren’t even on Ohio State’s campus..."

This is the second time I've heard of a University enacting a school rule which attempts to curb an adult student's Constitutional rights simply because they're a student, regardless of their location or activity, and backs it up with threat of expulsion.

Quite frankly, I sincerely hope Ohio State gets the SNOT sued out of them. Just as nothing speaks louder to municipalities than a string of monetary awards paid out by neighboring cities, perhaps the sting of a loosing some green will help colleges and universities get a clue or three when it comes to how and why respecting our Constitution, particularly our Second Amendment, is by far in their better interest than trying to subvert student rights.
 

Brian D.

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Messages
916
Location
Cincy area, Ohio, USA
'...and another gun rights group..."

That would be Ohioans For Concealed Carry. Let's make sure to give credit where credit is due, and try to stick together in what will be a long drawn out legal tussle. And, probably expensive, OSU has DEEP pockets. SCCC and OFCC should be so lucky.
 

Brian D.

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Messages
916
Location
Cincy area, Ohio, USA
Bottom line to me is that anything that allows more good guys to be lawfully armed more often around a college campus, it's a good thing. Crime, even some of the violent stuff, is often unreported/under-reported in and around campus, by pretty much any university PD I've ever heard of.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,304
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Paragraph 14 from the lawsuit.
14. The unlawful rules promulgated and enforced by Defendant OSU restrict the fundamental rights to keep and bear arms, including the common law and Constitutionally protected rights of Plaintiffs and OSU students, faculty, staff, employees, visitors and the public. The rights violated include the fundamental right of self defense of OSU students residing in University housing, who are unable to keep a firearm in their residences for their defense and security. See, e.g., District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008); McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025 (2010), and Klein v. Leis, 99 Ohio St.3d 537, 2003-Ohio-4779.
Ohio Revised Code:
2923.126(C)(3)(b) A landlord may not prohibit or restrict a tenant who is a licensee and who on or after September 9, 2008, enters into a rental agreement with the landlord for the use of residential premises, and the tenant's guest while the tenant is present, from lawfully carrying or possessing a handgun on those residential premises.
(c) As used in division (C)(3) of this section:
(i) "Residential premises" has the same meaning as in section 5321.01 of the Revised Code, except "residential premises" does not include a dwelling unit that is owned or operated by a college or university.
So, tell me how OSU can change state law?
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,304
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
All ready posted in the Ohio thread.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?119-Ohio

unfortunately most of the lawsuit is smoke and no fire.

About all that can be accomplished is the bylaws of the university and the student code of conduct could be changed to be in conformity with state law. In other words, allow students and employees to open carry on the campus, as this is the right of all Ohio citizens.
 

JustaShooter

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
728
Location
NE Ohio
All ready posted in the Ohio thread.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?119-Ohio

unfortunately most of the lawsuit is smoke and no fire.

About all that can be accomplished is the bylaws of the university and the student code of conduct could be changed to be in conformity with state law. In other words, allow students and employees to open carry on the campus, as this is the right of all Ohio citizens.
And to be able to keep their handguns in their vehicles while on campus. Both of which are good things, but your comments make it sound like it isn't worthwhile. :confused:
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,304
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
And to be able to keep their handguns in their vehicles while on campus. Both of which are good things, but your comments make it sound like it isn't worthwhile. :confused:
I wish them all the luck in the world.

The student code of conduct does not trump state law. No contract trumps state law.

To be a trustee of OSU you have to take an oath to the U.S. Constitution, Ohio constitution and the laws of Ohio. If they affirmed the bylaws and if any of those bylaws violate federal and state constitutions and the laws then those sections of the bylaws are void ab initio.
 
Last edited:

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,304
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,336
Location
Valhalla

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,449
Location
Valhalla
Link goes to online case search page. Hard to search without case ID.

stay safe.
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,170
Location
earth's crust
http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80917

I'm scratching my head. All I get out of the suit is OFCC/SCCC wants students to be allowed to open carry on campus. If that's what they are attempting to do, great. But, the truth of the matter is if OSU attempted to punish a student for open carry on campus OSU would find themselves in an untenable position of a federal 1983 suit.

One of the major problems is the plaintiffs did not do their home work. The suit refers to the Ohio Administrative Code §3335-23-01. The problem is there is no Ohio Administrative Code §3335-23-01.

This section 3335-23-01 is a section from the OSU Bylaws.
You are free to contact their attny..they can amend. I have contacted several attny regarding their pleadings in a complaint or appeal..either by providing them with facts that they were not aware of or mistakes I see. Sometimes they have amended !
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,304
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
You are free to contact their attny..they can amend. I have contacted several attny regarding their pleadings in a complaint or appeal..either by providing them with facts that they were not aware of or mistakes I see. Sometimes they have amended !
I'm quite aware of what I can do. From what I'm told this case was brought by the most authoritative Ohio guns rights organization and most experienced Ohio gun rights attorney.
http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80917

Don't get me wrong, OFCC has won some significant gun cases. But, when that happens infallibility sometimes sets in. This case is a good example of that. This case was DOA. There were associates of OFCC that criticized open carry walks on OSU's campus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ojQTROOo9Y
 
Last edited:

Brian D.

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Messages
916
Location
Cincy area, Ohio, USA
Gee, no mention of this on OFCC's forums, at least yet. Got to say I couldn't see this case ever being a winner, not without LOTS of financial backing. And probably with more, well orchestrated and publicized campus OC walks.

Meanwhile there's the chance of a legislative fix, but right now our Governor is so busy running for POTUS he has no time for Ohio business.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,304
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Gee, no mention of this on OFCC's forums, at least yet. Got to say I couldn't see this case ever being a winner, not without LOTS of financial backing. And probably with more, well orchestrated and publicized campus OC walks.

Meanwhile there's the chance of a legislative fix, but right now our Governor is so busy running for POTUS he has no time for Ohio business.
It is almost 60 days after the fact. Were are all the in your face-this is the greatest lawsuit ever know-it-alls? I forgot, they said that the OSU open carry walk would destroyed any chance of a lawsuit succeeding. It is always the other guys fault.

They can always refile the suit within a year. But, what is going to be discovered or legislation passed in the next year that's going to turn the lawsuit into a winner?

If the Republican controlled general assembly and John Kasich passed into law major gun rights reforms, I would bet, Kasich would move up in the polls. After all, Kasich claims to be a pragmatist.
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,022
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Students for Concealed Carry Foundation, Inc. & Ohioans for Concealed Carry & Ryan A. Guenther
Plaintiffs
vs.
The Ohio State University
Defendant.

On 9/11/15 the plaintiff's voluntarily dismissed the case without prejudice.
http://fcdcfcjs.co.franklin.oh.us/CaseInformationOnline/caseSearch?3rUKXXDtXqi4J0UzlSzu

I'm scratching my head. I was told this lawsuit was a big deal and was going to change the world.
Why do you ALWAYS cause trouble???

More than a year ago (7/31/14), a person with an air of authority handled another troublemaker's question about advancing things in the legislature rather than the courtroom: http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=80917&start=30 (last post)

Not that it will help students at private universities, because that will takeother initiatives, but I'm wondering when the powers-that-be in Ohio's RKBA organizations are going to announce that they will fight tooth and nail for concealed carry on campuses - in the legislature...?
Well, seeing as there are bills already submitted to do that, we just have to wait till the elected get back to allow them to vote. So you want an announcement, OFCC will fight tooth and nail to pass the current pro-gun bills pending, all 15 or so pending bills. That make you happy? There's already tons of bills on the table, not much we can do right now.

AND, moving forward a year, a bill has been introduced in the legislature - to give universities a choice! :banana: :banana:

Certainly, OSU will be the first to opt in!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: After all, why force the dear universities when, if given the chance, they'd choose the path of enlightenment all on their own?

Now, go back to your cave and quit causing trouble! :cool: :cool:


(Oh, and btw, the real reason the whole lawsuit thing fell apart was because of that jerk who organized an OC walk at OSU: count on it!)
 
Top