MD Cops harassing out-of-state gun owners...

[Dreamer]

For those of you who don't think that the police can't tell if you have a CHL just by running your car's tags, you might want to read this story.

Not only can they see if you have a carry permit, but they will pull you over JUST to try to jack you for lawful interstate carry--even though it's protected by Federal law.

Maryland is such a vile little serfdom...

http://tbo.com/list/columns-tjackson/jackson-gun-owner-unarmed-unwelcome-in-maryland-20140112/

 

[WalkingWolf]

They used what he said, she said for RAS of a crime that did not exist.

DO NOT TALK TO POLICE!

 

[Citizen]

Another rule is "don't let police follow you."

I forget whether is was:

Arrestproof Yourself by Dale Carson, or

You and the Police by Kenneth Royce aka Boston T. Party

where the author said never to let police follow you. Turn into a gas station, take an exit, etc.

Having been seized on three fishing expeditions in the last six years, I no longer let a cop follow me/ride behind me. I change lanes or slow a bit forcing him to go by, or just pull into the nearest open-to-the-public business on the right.

I have no interest in encountering a bored cop looking for something to do and finding some pretext to go on a fishing expedition with me on the end of his pretext line. Not anymore. Been there done that.

Now, the poor fellow in the OP probably didn't know cops would be fishing--he's probably been sucked in by the PR spin campaign of "protect and serve" and so forth--so I'm not criticizing him. Just using WW's post as the springboard to my point.



Those two books I mentioned are excellent. Dale Carson is a former cop, former fed, and now is a defense attorney. He understands first-hand police mindset, and explains it in that book. Kenneth Royce has some great ideas, and is a refreshingly liberty-minded fella.

 

[Fallschirjmäger]

Agreed. Officer Friendly behind me means I will pull into the First Open, legal driveway/business that presents itself, or slow down way more than surrounding traffic.

 

[MNMGoneShooting]

Same thing happened to me in Maryland, though it was not nearly as hostile. The cop came back to tell me that I had a CCW and that I was required by law to tell him (not really... It's a VA permit, not MD). He then asked if I was carrying. I told him, why would I do that in MD?

This discussion went on a few minutes and then he went back to the 35 mph in 25 mph blah blah blah...

Same people; transportation authority.

 

[Fallschirjmäger]

Same thing happened to me in Maryland, though it was not nearly as hostile. The cop came back to tell me that I had a CCW and that I was required by law to tell him (not really... It's a VA permit, not MD). He then asked if I was carrying. I told him, why would I do that in MD?

This discussion went on a few minutes and then he went back to the 35 mph in 25 mph blah blah blah...

Same people; transportation authority.

Virginia tags n license?
I wonder if there might be some database sharing going on.

 

[eye95]

One more reason we should be advocating UC, not just OC. UC is the right. Licensed carry is a privilege that allows the State to do crap like this.

The victim is thinking of giving up his CCW [sic], which the article calls "caving." If he intends to stop carrying, that's caving. If his intent is to continue to carry unlicensed, Bravo! However, a few State laws would get in the way, and he should work to change them.

Legal question: I see no RAS for the stop. How the hell can you develop PC if there never was RAS for the stop???

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Another rule is "don't let police follow you."

I forget whether is was:

Arrestproof Yourself by Dale Carson, or

You and the Police by Kenneth Royce aka Boston T. Party

where the author said never to let police follow you. Turn into a gas station, take an exit, etc.

Having been seized on three fishing expeditions in the last six years, I no longer let a cop follow me/ride behind me. I change lanes or slow a bit forcing him to go by, or just pull into the nearest open-to-the-public business on the right.

I have no interest in encountering a bored cop looking for something to do and finding some pretext to go on a fishing expedition with me on the end of his pretext line. Not anymore. Been there done that.

Now, the poor fellow in the OP probably didn't know cops would be fishing--he's probably been sucked in by the PR spin campaign of "protect and serve" and so forth--so I'm not criticizing him. Just using WW's post as the springboard to my point.



Those two books I mentioned are excellent. Dale Carson is a former cop, former fed, and now is a defense attorney. He understands first-hand police mindset, and explains it in that book. Kenneth Royce has some great ideas, and is a refreshingly liberty-minded fella.

+1

 

[eye95]

Interesting point on not letting the cops follow you. I will now be alert to the possibility and will take reasonable action to end any following.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

 

[OldCurlyWolf]

As a former Leo, I can tell you that it is possible to follow nearly anyone for a few blocks and find a Legitimate(may be feces of the fowl, but legitimate) reason to pull them over.

The advice to not let a PD follow you is good.:cuss:

 

[JamesCanby]

As a former Leo, I can tell you that it is possible to follow nearly anyone for a few blocks and find a Legitimate(may be feces of the fowl, but legitimate) reason to pull them over.

The advice to not let a PD follow you is good.:cuss:

I suspect that if a LEO is following you specifically, your turning off the highway or entering a business parking lot is not going to throw him/her off your trail. If I'm traveling from Point A to Point B I'm not going to be too perturbed by seeing a LEO behind me. I may move over while on a multi-lane highway to see if they want to pass me by, but if he's going to stop me, I don't think my trying to "evade" him will matter.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Nobody said anything about "evade" Just not be followed. If the LEO follows the driver to private property he has to make a choice. He can move on, or risk being the subject of a civil action if he does not have a valid reason. Pulling off makes it more difficult for the LEO to claim a valid reason. I would also call police and report being followed.

 

[Fallschirjmäger]

As da Wolf said, it's not about 'evasion', more of 'avoidance.' If the officer is following and waiting for you to make an actionable move, then getting off the road as quickly as is reasonable gives you less time to commit a faux pas he can use to have a little chat. He can pull into the same Sack o' Suds, but eventually he's going to have to leave or follow you as you turn into each and every business as you go down the street. Lawd help him if you can find a strip mall with ten or twelve businesses.

Additionally, I think most states have rules against using a handheld device while driving. Pulling over to use a cellphone, make a note on a piece of paper, or even have a coughing fit is just good manners.

 

[Superlite27]

I suspect that if a LEO is following you specifically, your turning off the highway or entering a business parking lot is not going to throw him/her off your trail. If I'm traveling from Point A to Point B I'm not going to be too perturbed by seeing a LEO behind me. I may move over while on a multi-lane highway to see if they want to pass me by, but if he's going to stop me, I don't think my trying to "evade" him will matter.

Where do you see the argument that turning into a gas station or changing lanes will "throw him off your tail"? You also put words into previous poster's mouths by rephrasing this practice as "evading".

I believe you misunderstand the purpose of this alteration to the route. It isn't to "shake 'em off your tail". The police are pretty experienced at NOT being evaded. I highly doubt making a right turn will do the trick. I've seen criminals on COPS jump entire culverts and blaze through car dealerships without success. Do you honestly think swapping lanes will make one go, "HOLY COW! HE JUST DISAPPEARED!"?

The purpose of turning in to a business or changing lanes is more of a "litmus test" than an "evasion". Doing so forces the issue. Either the trailing officer continues about his business ending any attempts at "fishing"......

.....or he alters his course as well, unmistakably revealing that he is, indeed, on a fishing trip.

 

[JamesCanby]

Nobody said anything about "evade" Just not be followed. If the LEO follows the driver to private property he has to make a choice. He can move on, or risk being the subject of a civil action if he does not have a valid reason. Pulling off makes it more difficult for the LEO to claim a valid reason. I would also call police and report being followed.

Seriously? You want me to call 911 and tell the Dispatcher that I'm being followed by a police car? Really?

As da Wolf said, it's not about 'evasion', more of 'avoidance.' If the officer is following and waiting for you to make an actionable move, then getting off the road as quickly as is reasonable gives you less time to commit a faux pas he can use to have a little chat. He can pull into the same Sack o' Suds, but eventually he's going to have to leave or follow you as you turn into each and every business as you go down the street. Lawd help him if you can find a strip mall with ten or twelve businesses.

Additionally, I think most states have rules against using a handheld device while driving. Pulling over to use a cellphone, make a note on a piece of paper, or even have a coughing fit is just good manners.

Where do you see the argument that turning into a gas station or changing lanes will "throw him off your tail"? You also put words into previous poster's mouths by rephrasing this practice as "evading".

I believe you misunderstand the purpose of this alteration to the route. It isn't to "shake 'em off your tail". The police are pretty experienced at NOT being evaded. I highly doubt making a right turn will do the trick. I've seen criminals on COPS jump entire culverts and blaze through car dealerships without success. Do you honestly think swapping lanes will make one go, "HOLY COW! HE JUST DISAPPEARED!"?

The purpose of turning in to a business or changing lanes is more of a "litmus test" than an "evasion". Doing so forces the issue. Either the trailing officer continues about his business ending any attempts at "fishing"......

.....or he alters his course as well, unmistakably revealing that he is, indeed, on a fishing trip.

Holy crap, people... Did you not see the quotes around the word 'evade?' Lighten up.

I suggested changing lanes only to see if he was trailing my car, or if he just wanted to get by.

The idea that I should alter my route or get off the highway or turn into a business just because a police car is behind me is the height of paranoia. Either he will go by me, or not, or he will stop me. My time is too important to alter my route of travel just because there's a police car behind me. If he's truly following me, then whatever I do is not going to change his mind about stopping me. If he does stop me, I am prepared to interact with him in the most effective manner and be on my way, which will probably take less time than altering my route.

 

[JamesCanby]

You bet your life.

What are you saying? That you agree with me or that I am "betting my life" by being stopped?

 

[WalkingWolf]

Women have been raped by police impersonators, and even police themselves. If there is any doubt about the intentions of a police officer. You bet your booty you better call 911 to find out. Two things happen you verify it is indeed a cop, and that cop is now on record as following you. Now it makes it a tad more difficult to commit a crime such as rape.

The above is actually advice that some police give to the public.

 

[JamesCanby]

Women have been raped by police impersonators, and even police themselves. If there is any doubt about the intentions of a police officer. You bet your booty you better call 911 to find out. Two things happen you verify it is indeed a cop, and that cop is now on record as following you. Now it makes it a tad more difficult to commit a crime such as rape.

The above is actually advice that some police give to the public.

Well, I don't think I'll comment on that. After all, you were a police officer, so I guess you know whereof you speak, and are more familiar with what cops do...

 

[PistolPackingMomma]

The idea that I should alter my route or get off the highway or turn into a business just because a police car is behind me is the height of paranoia. Either he will go by me, or not, or he will stop me. My time is too important to alter my route of travel just because there's a police car behind me. If he's truly following me, then whatever I do is not going to change his mind about stopping me. If he does stop me, I am prepared to interact with him in the most effective manner and be on my way, which will probably take less time than altering my route.

Interesting how interest in preservation of health and liberty is demeaned as "paranoia".

Within the last 24 hours, I recall reading a post by a member with a history in LE stating he could follow a car for five minutes and find something to pull them over for. And he is by no means the first I've heard say so.

 

[Fuller Malarkey]

Holy crap, people... Did you not see the quotes around the word 'evade?' Lighten up.

I suggested changing lanes only to see if he was trailing my car, or if he just wanted to get by.

The idea that I should alter my route or get off the highway or turn into a business just because a police car is behind me is the height of paranoia. Either he will go by me, or not, or he will stop me. My time is too important to alter my route of travel just because there's a police car behind me. If he's truly following me, then whatever I do is not going to change his mind about stopping me.

You forgot to qualify your statement with "MY OPINION".

In looking at your multiple quote post, I recall an old saying that might apply....

"If one person says you have a tail you can probably ignore it, however, if two or three people say you do, then you better turn around and look."~ Anonymous