NC OC experience reports

[Dreamer]

This is from http://www.ncdoj.com/getdoc/32344299-a2a7-4ae5-99fd-9018262f64ac/2007-NC-Firearms-gun-Laws.aspx
, though it only specifies concealed.

7. Even with a permit, you may not carry a concealed handgun in the following areas:
a. Any law enforcement or correctional facility;
b. Any space occupied by state or federal employees;

So would this include Federal Parks in NC? A Park is a "space"...

Is "Space" defined as a building only, or ANY "space"?

And is "occupied" defined as "being inside of a building" or is it defined in the military sense of "occupied"?

I OCed at the Wright Brothers National Memorial last month, and spoke with several Park Rangers, and they seemed to be totally cool with it...

Hmmm...

 

[sFe]

I think they use "space" just in case there's just an office or station type thing within a non state/federal building

 

[Ruger]

Well, tell you what guys - if one of you knows of an ABC store that isn't posted (I don't know of one), and you want to be a test case, go ahead and OC there, and then post here to tell us about how it went.

Personally, I think its playing with fire, and I wouldn't do it. but if you guys are really that confident about it, go for it. Prove your point for the benefit of the rest of us.

 

[papa bear]

sorry we got off subject. i personally had have only been in a abc store 10yrs ago and then it was to get some boxes, wasn't carrying then. there is a discussion somewhere else about weather a cave is cover by the space clause. i live close to the blue ridge parkway and this is a issue here. most of the places are posted that need it

 

[papa bear]

back to the carry experience. i was with a group of politicians the other night and was invited to go with them for a late meal after a meeting. unfortunately they wanted to go to "lone star", i told them sorry i couldn't go in there since they served alcohol. they thought it was because i was against drinking. i said no, i don't drink , but i have nothing against anyone who did within reason. i told them the state of nc would not let me. (there was a setting state representative there). so i told them that i was ccp holder and i think they did not know that was one of the rules. i did mention there was a lot of inane rules like that. i had earlier pointed out to the rep. about the vagueness of nc law and they said they agreed. maybe these guys will think about it

 

[sultan62]

I did carry in an ABC store-that's how that particular discussion started. Had no problems whatsoever.

Went to the tea party mentioned in my earlier post. Couldn't carry b/c restaurant serves alcohol, but took some NC Gun Rights Flyers and was able to hand out about five.

 

[Smith45acp]

Well, tell you what guys - if one of you knows of an ABC store that isn't posted (I don't know of one), and you want to be a test case, go ahead and OC there, and then post here to tell us about how it went.

Personally, I think its playing with fire, and I wouldn't do it. but if you guys are really that confident about it, go for it. Prove your point for the benefit of the rest of us.

I've OC'd in one of Cary's ABC stores picking up some Stolis. No incident, but that doesn't really prove anything either...

 

[Dreamer]

I've OC'd in one of Cary's ABC stores picking up some Stolis. No incident, but that doesn't really prove anything either...

Shenanigans...

It's not legal to OC on public streets or sidewalks in Cary. So unless you parachuted in to the Store, there is no way you could legally get to the store from the parking lot...

 

[sFe]

Shenanigans...

It's not legal to OC on public streets or sidewalks in Cary. So unless you parachuted in to the Store, there is no way you could legally get to the store from the parking lot...

:lol:

The only ABC store I have been into that wasn't posted is the one here in Laurinburg.

 

[acritical]

Shenanigans...

It's not legal to OC on public streets or sidewalks in Cary. So unless you parachuted in to the Store, there is no way you could legally get to the store from the parking lot...

Hopefully Dreamer was being sarcastic with this remark and I just missed it.

 

[sultan62]

It really is illegal to carry in Cary, if that's what you're referring to.

1. The Town of Cary does not allow the open or concealed carry
of a weapon while on any public property within our community
including on greenways, in public parks or Town facilities, or in
Town-owned parking lots. The ordinance does not allow the
open carry of any firearm on public sidewalks or right-of-ways.
If a private business or property is not posted prohibiting
firearms, then citizens have the right to lawfully carry firearms
on the premises. (Town ordinance Sec 22-51).

If it's illegal to carry on the sidewalk or 'on any public property within [their] community', how can you get into (nonposted) businesses? This seems like such a flagrant disregard of both the US and NC constitutions I can't believe it hasn't been stricken. Oh well, what's one more reason not to go to/live in Cary?

 

[Smith45acp]

Shenanigans...

It's not legal to OC on public streets or sidewalks in Cary. So unless you parachuted in to the Store, there is no way you could legally get to the store from the parking lot...

What makes you think the Town of Cary owns the parking lot Dreamer? Do you somehow conclude that a private parking lot has publicly owned sidewalks? Please elaborate. With your huge red font you seem pretty sure of yourself on this one.

Furthermore, when you say shenanigans are you accusing me of lying about the act or about the legality of it? The latter would be less offensive.

 

[Dreamer]

What makes you think the Town of Cary owns the parking lot Dreamer? Do you somehow conclude that a private parking lot has publicly owned sidewalks? Please elaborate. With your huge red font you seem pretty sure of yourself on this one.

Furthermore, when you say shenanigans are you accusing me of lying about the act or about the legality of it? The latter would be less offensive.

The State of NC doesn't own the land that most of their liquor stores are on. Almost all BC stores are on City land, which is leased by the state. Parking lots for ABC stores are usually not "private businesses". They are State agencies.

Also, NC Statutes prohibit carry on most State property in State Buildings (with the notable exception of rest areas). So even if an ABC store wasn't posted, and was in fact on private property, the fact that it is a "State Store" puts it under the State Property prohibition...

I'm not saying you are being untruthful, I'm just saying that perhaps you luckily got away with something that was, in fact illegal. Just because you didn't get called on it in one instance doesn't mean it's legal.

 

[sultan62]

The one I went in had no sign against carry of any type-concealed or otherwise.

Could you point me to the statute on state buildings other than the Capitol Building, Executive Mansion, Western Residence of the Governor, or a building housing any court of the General Court of Justice? (and the grounds of aforementioned buildings)

§ 14‑269.4. Weapons on State property and in courthouses.
See http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-269.4.html

^Quoted because I didn't feel like typing/formatting it again. I still have yet to see statutes against open carry on state property other than the aforementioned cases. CC is a different story, as is shown in another previous post.

 

[acritical]

Sultan62, actually it is NOT illegal to carry in the town of Cary. We have had a few meetings inside Cary to prove it. I have also carried personally many times inside of Cary. The parking lot in front of the ABC store does not qualify under Cary's restrictions of public streets or sidewaks, or government property. Many ABC stores share the parking lot with other private businesses.

Unfortunately, a lot of people do not notice that private and public streets do not usually pertain to parking lots in front of businesses. This is what Cary is hoping for. Admittedly, I do not know how this pertains to inside the ABC store, but if there are private business, such as clothing, food, sport stores or restaurants, the parking lot is fair game.

 

[Smith45acp]

Many ABC stores share the parking lot with other private businesses.

...As was my case in point. Dreamer enter retraction here __________

 

[sultan62]

Not surprised that once again, legalese was used to obscure meaning.

I would have to do more independent research before carrying in Cary, but it's nice to know that it's not strictly forbidden. Have you had to educate LEOs on this point?

 

[acritical]

Actually, that was the interesting part. When I was OC in Cary, I went to the REI store, and was asked to remove my firearm from the store by an employee, because it was making the customer's nervous. The only customer's in the store at the time was me and my girlfriend, so I am not sure which one of us was nervous about my carrying.

On the way out the store, I did pass a Cary LEO and he nodded in my direction as to say hello. As I walked past him, he called me back and asked me what firearm I was carrying. I am not sure which I was carrying that day, but all he said was something to the affect of to be careful not to hurt anyone, and went on his way.

So, seems to me like they are aware of where it is and is not legal to OC a firearm in their city.

 

[sultan62]

Still Off Topic: What is the law on NF posted PUBLIC properties in NC? One would think preemption would take over, and this would not be allowed, but I don't know. I need to do some more research, and if anyone else finds anything, please post.

Back On Topic: Carried to Huddle House, gas station, Wally World, business as usual in each case.

EDIT:

§ 14‑409.40. Statewide uniformity of local regulation.
...
(f) Nothing contained in this section prohibits municipalities or counties from application of their authority under G.S. 153A‑129, 160A‑189, 14‑269, 14‑269.2, 14‑269.3, 14‑269.4, 14‑277.2, 14‑415.11, 14‑415.23, including prohibiting the possession of firearms in public‑owned buildings, on the grounds or parking areas of those buildings, or in public parks or recreation areas, except nothing in this subsection shall prohibit a person from storing a firearm within a motor vehicle while the vehicle is on these grounds or areas. Nothing contained in this section prohibits municipalities or counties from exercising powers provided by law in declared states of emergency under Article 36A of this Chapter.

Well I suppose that answers that question. Maybe we should start a thread on all the laws NC needs to change.

EDIT 2: Starting a new thread, both to get back on topic here and because this could be a long discussion. Link at http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?79116-Carry-on-NC-Public-Property

 

[spinner]

Burlington open carry

Quick-mart in Graham, on the corner of main and graham-hopedale, (conversation) (clerk) do you have a badge? (me) no, I am a legally armed citizen (clerk) you cant carry a gun. (me) say's who? (clerk) say's the law. (me) what law? (clerk) uhhh. no answer. (me) are you the owner? (clerk) well.. my family owns it. (me) do? you know the 2nd amendment? (clerk) whats that? (me) what country do you come from? (clerk) mexico (me) are you here legally? (clerk) uhhh... no answer (me) don't you think it would be wise not to tell people the law, in a country that your not suppose to be in, that you hardly know the language, and not recite laws from a constitution that your not even familiar with. thank you very much but I am not buying anything here and i wont be back, and i will tell everybody i know not to come in here. Other than that Wal-Mart, (every other day), home depot, Well, put it this way (ALOT) of stores in Burlington and Graham, no problems.. God bless...