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New Hampshire bill would restrict police deadly force

RidleyReport

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May 14, 2008
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With U.S. police killing about 1,000 people a year
compared to German police who kill about four
The spirit behind this bill is noble enough.

https://legiscan.com/NH/text/HB218/id/1833526

Some of the Stockholm-syndromers out there are upset that the bill comes from "liberty Republicans." In New Hampshire, Republicans are more libertarian than in most places and really do want to limit govt.

Want freedom? Move to NH
http://FreeStateProject.org
 

hammer6

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
1,410
Location
Florida
With U.S. police killing about 1,000 people a year
compared to German police who kill about four
The spirit behind this bill is noble enough.

https://legiscan.com/NH/text/HB218/id/1833526

Some of the Stockholm-syndromers out there are upset that the bill comes from "liberty Republicans." In New Hampshire, Republicans are more libertarian than in most places and really do want to limit govt.

Want freedom? Move to NH
http://FreeStateProject.org
Wow look at ridley report on OC.org! The ridley report was what got me into 1st and 2nd amendment audits! good to see you
 

KBCraig

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Aug 7, 2007
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Granite State of Mind
The bill just brings statutory law into line with Tennessee v. Garner.

And yes, the way the police are responding, you'd think it would take their guns away completely.
 

since9

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Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
With U.S. police killing about 1,000 people a year
compared to German police who kill about four
The spirit behind this bill is noble enough.
What is that on a per-capita basis?

On a per-capita basis, per 100,000, the common denominator used for comparing relatively rare events, that comes to:

In 2018, the US had 327,167,434 people. Germany had 82,800,000. Do the math and it comes to 0.3 per 100k for the U.S. and 0.005 per 100k for Germany.

Admittedly, Germany's rate is 63 times less than that of the U.S. However, while 1,000 is nearing the bounds of statistical relevance, 4 is simply not enough data to reliably compare to anything. Furthermore, Germany's population is significantly more homogeneous than ours and must better trained with respect to following the law, including respect for the Polezei.

Finally, there's the training of the Polezei itself, also different than that of U.S. law enforcement, particularly with respect to threat response.

The the real stickler is the number of deaths per 100k in the US: 0.3 per 100k. That's tiny. Just 3 per million. Sure, you can detect 1 ppm of chlorine in your water, but Cl is a highly reactive chemical. 3 people per million is minuscule when it comes to all causes of death.

One must also examine this in the light of numbers of police contacts. The U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, "Contacts Between Police and the Public, 2015," states there are 21.1% of persons age 16 or older with any police contact. That's roughly 60 million contacts.

1,000 deaths out of 60 million contacts is 1 death in 60,000 contacts. Again, we're looking at minuscule numbers, just 1.75 deaths per 100,000 contacts, very low on the rather long list of causes of deaths, most of which originated from either traffic stops or response to reported or possible crimes in progress.

Bottom Line: Comparing Germany and the U.S. with this measure isn't likely to yield salient results, as when it comes to respect for and cooperation with the police, German citizens are vastly more cooperative.

Some of the Stockholm-syndromers out there are upset that the bill comes from "liberty Republicans." In New Hampshire, Republicans are more libertarian than in most places and really do want to limit govt.
I like it in New Hampster. Friends there. Don't like the biting black flies, though. Heard they're wicked bad for about six weeks out of the year.

BJS report: https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpp15.pdf
 

solus

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here nc
Well, again with the Lies, damn lies & statistics discussion.

Since9, where does DoJ get their data, as you and everyone else is aware, and acknowledged by DoJ, not every LE agency dutifully reports their data to DoJ!

As for the reporting accuracy of the Bundespolizei it is anybodys guess.

Therefore, the dance you just engaged in just showed you mixing apples and oranges and came up with fruit salad!
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
4,711
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Looks to me the major changes are removing the word he and replaces it with the words the officer.

Really Not any chances to the when.
Here is what would be repealed.
VIII. Deadly force shall be deemed reasonably necessary under this section whenever the arresting law enforcement officer reasonably believes that the arrest is lawful and there is apparently no other possible means of effecting the arrest.
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/lxii/627/627-5.htm
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,910
Location
North Carolina
When comparing the US to Germany the difference is driven by the demographics. The US has a growing culture of violent criminals, even though they are a small percentage of the population, they have a complete disrespect for law enforcement. To make matters worse LE has a small percentage that disrespect the law, or believe they are above it. Until both problems are addressed the number of people shot, including by police will not drop.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
4,711
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
When comparing the US to Germany the difference is driven by the demographics. The US has a growing culture of violent criminals, even though they are a small percentage of the population, they have a complete disrespect for law enforcement. To make matters worse LE has a small percentage that disrespect the law, or believe they are above it. Until both problems are addressed the number of people shot, including by police will not drop.
Agree.
 

KBCraig

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,661
Location
Granite State of Mind
Since9, where does DoJ get their data, as you and everyone else is aware, and acknowledged by DoJ, not every LE agency dutifully reports their data to DoJ!
"The government are very keen on amassing statistics. They collect them, add them, raise them to the nth power, take the cube root and prepare wonderful diagrams. But you must never forget that every one of these figures comes in the first instance from the chowty dar (village watchman in India), who just puts down what he damn pleases."
~Sir Josiah Stamp
 

hammer6

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
1,410
Location
Florida
What is that on a per-capita basis?

On a per-capita basis, per 100,000, the common denominator used for comparing relatively rare events, that comes to:

In 2018, the US had 327,167,434 people. Germany had 82,800,000. Do the math and it comes to 0.3 per 100k for the U.S. and 0.005 per 100k for Germany.

Admittedly, Germany's rate is 63 times less than that of the U.S. However, while 1,000 is nearing the bounds of statistical relevance, 4 is simply not enough data to reliably compare to anything. Furthermore, Germany's population is significantly more homogeneous than ours and must better trained with respect to following the law, including respect for the Polezei.

Finally, there's the training of the Polezei itself, also different than that of U.S. law enforcement, particularly with respect to threat response.

The the real stickler is the number of deaths per 100k in the US: 0.3 per 100k. That's tiny. Just 3 per million. Sure, you can detect 1 ppm of chlorine in your water, but Cl is a highly reactive chemical. 3 people per million is minuscule when it comes to all causes of death.

One must also examine this in the light of numbers of police contacts. The U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, "Contacts Between Police and the Public, 2015," states there are 21.1% of persons age 16 or older with any police contact. That's roughly 60 million contacts.

1,000 deaths out of 60 million contacts is 1 death in 60,000 contacts. Again, we're looking at minuscule numbers, just 1.75 deaths per 100,000 contacts, very low on the rather long list of causes of deaths, most of which originated from either traffic stops or response to reported or possible crimes in progress.

Bottom Line: Comparing Germany and the U.S. with this measure isn't likely to yield salient results, as when it comes to respect for and cooperation with the police, German citizens are vastly more cooperative.



I like it in New Hampster. Friends there. Don't like the biting black flies, though. Heard they're wicked bad for about six weeks out of the year.

BJS report: https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpp15.pdf

And about police contacts...how many lawful contacts resulted in death, and how many unlawful contacts resulted in death? That's a statistic that would shed some light on the cognizance of rule of law, adherence to such knowledge, and in conjunction with the training level of police in the USA.
 

CJ4wd

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Joined
Jun 22, 2017
Messages
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Planet Earth
When comparing the US to Germany the difference is driven by the demographics. The US has a growing culture of violent criminals, even though they are a small percentage of the population, they have a complete disrespect for law enforcement. To make matters worse LE has a small percentage that disrespect the law, or believe they are above it. Until both problems are addressed the number of people shot, including by police will not drop.
What about the "immigrants" that are flooding into all of Europe? They have no respect for the existing authorities OR the established people and institutions. They may not have the guns that our criminal element has BUT they do have access to full-auto weapons and explosives. Plus they have the willingness and desire to use them.
 

RidleyReport

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Location
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thanks for the thoughtful and numbers based nature of the responses... In answer to some of the criticisms of my original post: Ok let's assume Germany is profoundly different from U.S. Even if we were to leave it out of the argument for a sec...Iceland and England both have per capita kill rates similar to Germany's. Iceland has had only had one fatal police shooting between indepdendence after ww2 and 2017. England has about 4 a year like germany, with a presumably somewhat smaller population. and it's pretty diverse and immigrated-to.

with regard to the idea that the u.s. is packed with criminals and it's getting worse... wasn't crime or at least violent crime way down in the u.s. between 1972 and 2014? not sure how the numbers are since 2014.

"in old hell the cooks were british and the police were german, in new hell the cooks are british and the police are american."
 

HP995

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2012
Messages
730
Location
MO, USA
The US has a growing culture of violent criminals, even though they are a small percentage of the population, they have a complete disrespect for law enforcement. To make matters worse LE has a small percentage that disrespect the law, or believe they are above it. Until both problems are addressed the number of people shot, including by police will not drop.
🏆 Very well said by WW! That is one of the all time great posts. Anyone discussing LE violence and mob/criminal violence anywhere on the internet should get referred to that quote every single time. (y)

(The only thing I would add is that the percentages of lawless might not be so small at all - on the guv side we also have corrupt bureaucrats on the rise, also above the law, and guv workers who don't follow laws because of politics or sympathies. For every illegal alien, we have how many bureaucrats ignoring the law, or using alt laws to keep them here and provide them with services? It boggles the mind. We've also had LE in some areas directed by official corrupt policy to ignore real crimes by favored groups. On the civilian side, we have a large number voting for lawless guv and many are also nonviolent scofflaws themselves or at least dishonest. More people are bad than brave enough to do the dirty work themselves.)

But when it comes to Germany, any crime comparison is not a straight comparison. For example, I read that in many European nations it is not allowed to publish news or even post social media views that would put immigrants or favored groups in a bad light. Rape epidemic for example, with LE and guv suppressing overall stats as well as individual reports to LE by victims. I would assume that's not the only crime category involved. I could post a link two later if desired; can't vouch for any stats because it's alt news and suppressed stats to begin with. It may be that way here eventually if we don't fight to retain the 1A as well as the 2A and other As.
 

RidleyReport

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europeans should post their opinions on gab.com, at least it won't censor them. I'm super happy with it so far, getting a lot of responses to my posts, almost as many as I would on facebook. I wonder if the folks in more speech-oppressed countries can easily establish an anonyous gab account.
 
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