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new, lead-free hollow point looks....incredible?!

MAC702

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Several things about it made me laugh. This was the best:
Defeats all known barriers such as sheet metal, sheet rock, windshields, plywood, heavy winter clothing
Wow! Where can I get some!

Now, the company is going to add me to their list of salivating gun owners scouring the country looking for it...
 

davidmcbeth

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earth's crust
Several things about it made me laugh. This was the best:

Wow! Where can I get some!

Now, the company is going to add me to their list of salivating gun owners scouring the country looking for it...
+1

Others have made similar projectiles .. cost too much ... nothing really different than a regular SP bullet
 

Maverick9

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I would never suggest that LEOs have this ammo.

I would never approve of them EDC-ing this devastating round.

I would never approve of Homeland Sec. ordering 400,000 of these.

Having said that, if I did, I'd suggest and approve them to seriously consider not carrying Glocks. :)

Even at $2 a bullet, it would be cool to have a ten round CLIP of these in a magazine or two for 9mm. Being a merciful person, I don't know I could do more than have a little box as a desk display, not as an EDC.

Cool post, OP.

PS - it would give 'Glock Leg' a whole, new meaning. :shocker:
 

Superlite27

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Looks like it would chew up ramps on alloy frames with rampless barrels.
I was thinking similarly, but in the opposite direction:

Do you think the .45 version, if it has the same nose profile (don't see why it wouldn't), could be a gobstopper of a feed problem for 1911's? (rampless, or otherwise)
 

Rusty Young Man

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Also, wasn't there a round made by Aguila which was also made without any lead? I believe it was an all-aluminium HP bullet that boasted great fragmentation properties as well...?

Yep.


 

Superlite27

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I wouldn't want to risk a mis-feed in a pistol that's a picky eater. Can you imagine the hoplophobic horror in the prosecuting attorney's voice, and his jury, as he hands one to each of them? I'll stick with my tried and true EFMJ -- -- Oh, and they're paid for.
Standard, run-of-the-mill, hollow points are already portrayed as evil, murderous, "cop killer" bullets.

These must be the new pregnant woman killer, child rapist bullets.

I carry RA-40T's (Ranger-T's) in my XDm. (Not in my SA 1911 as I'm worried about nose profile and feed properties, therefore, I opt for POW-R-Balls since they have the profile of a FMJ from their round polymer nose) The expansion properties along with the wicked "razorlike" petals of the Ranger-T's make a devastating wound channel in ballistic gel. In the faux world of "stopping power" (there's no such animal) what most uneducated folks attribute to "stopping power" is actually the ability of a particular round to cause an attacker to "bleed out". The bigger the wound channel, the quicker blood loss causes them to "stop"....= "stopping power". (This is all secondary to shot placement. A direct shot to the heart with a .22lr has more "stopping power" than a miss with any other particular caliber, or bullet type, so this whole "stopping power" argument is only relevant if you take shot placement out of the equation.)

The particular properties of this projectile raise another question its sales pitch fails to adress:

It advertises a 6" wound channel. Is it a true 6" wound channel, or is it simply multiple smaller wound channels that are 6 inches apart? If I throw a handful of ball bearings at a piece of drywall and the distance between where they punch through is measured at 3 feet, can I honestly say I knocked a 3 foot hole through the drywall, or did I truthfully only poke tiny little holes through it that are 3 feet apart?

I KNOW my Ranger-T's cause a single, devastating wound channel. I would seriously question the effectiveness of several smaller wound channels in comparison as it hasn't really been tested.

What we have here is simply a marketing ploy: These rounds LOOK scary = they must be effective.

No thanks. I'll choose actual science, known qualities, and actual, proven effects over "These things look awesome, they must work great!" 10 times out of 10, every time I'm offered the choice.

I would be interested to know if having such a wide spread of projectile expansion would cause an effective increase to the actual shot placement. In English: Would the fact that a 6" spread of smaller wound channels allow for more leeway in missing vital organs? i.e. If I achieved a "hit" 3" from the heart, would one of these smaller wound channels the separate "petals" offer allow me to actually hit the heart with a shot so far away? A definitive answer to this question would be interesting, however, a favorable answer still wouldn't be enough to alleviate my concerns about bullet profile/feed properties.
 
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WalkingWolf

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A person can be killed or stopped without ever creating a wound channel, or any type of penetration. I don't remember the proper terminology but besides the wound channel rounds do damage to surrounding tissue. Higher velocity from a 30 caliber rifle round fmj will damage organs and tissue far beyond the wound channel. Bleeding out takes several seconds, and cannot be counted on to stop a threat. If shot in the vest with a powerful handgun, and striking the heart, it can kill, without penetrating the vest.

That said I am not impressed by a round that is only 95gr to begin with, and breaks up into 9 much smaller and lighter pieces. It would be equivalent in power to being shot 9 times with a high powered BB gun.

Doesn't matter though, politicians and LE will gasp, and Obama will outlaw the bullets as cop killers with a executive order.
 

WalkingWolf

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Cor-bon DPX (no lead) has some superior qualities, though not as effective against heavy clothing.

It is one of my preferred warm weather loadings.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/14...n-barnes-xpb-hollow-point-lead-free-box-of-20

Tend to carry Federal HST during the colder months.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...-amp-W-45-ACP-duty-ammo-vs-Fed-HST-as-control
Unless I am using high velocity rounds, and I only do that in rifles, I use soft lead bullets, even in the semi autos. A couple exceptions are 380 and my Star Super A. The bullet in the 380 needs penetration so it needs to stay consistent upon and during entry. The 9mm Largo travels at higher velocities for using a lead bullet, and has the velocity to have consistent expansion upon entry.

Pure lead has always been my favorite since hunting with muzzleloaders. It is very effective on two legged vermin also. When I was still working we were issued silver tips but I would have been just as happy with lead. For personal protection details we carried Hydra Shock safety slugs. Protection details usually entailed being in the presence of clumps of people, to crowds. Again I would have been just as happy with a soft lead bullet. A wadcutter does not usually over penetrate.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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Unless I am using high velocity rounds, and I only do that in rifles, I use soft lead bullets, even in the semi autos. A couple exceptions are 380 and my Star Super A. The bullet in the 380 needs penetration so it needs to stay consistent upon and during entry. The 9mm Largo travels at higher velocities for using a lead bullet, and has the velocity to have consistent expansion upon entry.

Pure lead has always been my favorite since hunting with muzzleloaders. It is very effective on two legged vermin also. When I was still working we were issued silver tips but I would have been just as happy with lead. For personal protection details we carried Hydra Shock safety slugs. Protection details usually entailed being in the presence of clumps of people, to crowds. Again I would have been just as happy with a soft lead bullet. A wadcutter does not usually over penetrate.
So were you using Federal Hydra Shocks that are a hollow point bullet or were you using Glaser Safety Slug that is a frangible bullet made by Cor-bon.

Two different manufactures two different bullet styles.
 

Superlite27

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Unless I am using high velocity rounds, and I only do that in rifles, I use soft lead bullets......

Pure lead has always been my favorite..........
You wouldn't happen to be an Elmer Keith fan, would you?

There's something to be said about traditional vs. technology (and I think this spans all things, not just firearms) in that we always seem to lean toward "newer is better". While minds will always improve on existing items by experimentation and development, we often forget that things that work well do not stop working well simply because they age and newer developments are discovered.

In the rush to seek better performance and the latest, greatest doohickey, we often discard things that perform excellently, often for no better reason than it's old.

In the search for the nextest, bestest thing, the fact that plain 'ol lead is HEAVY, offering excellent penetration, SOFT, offering excellent expansion, SOLID, offering excellent bonding properties without jacket/core separation (although it does sprall a little upon impact with solid objects such as windows or car doors), and CHEAP, offering excellent economic features is often overlooked in our search for something "more perfect" for lack of a better description.
 
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