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OC law becomes effective Aug. 28th 2012

mspgunner

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This is all we got in the Missouri Legislature last session. Becomes the "law" in Missouri on the 28th of August 2012.

Unfortunate but here it is:

571.037. Any person who has a valid concealed carry endorsement, and who is lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner, may briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense.
 

papa bear

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well it will help in printing. but, if a cop wants to, it would make it easier to arrest you. because if you do show it in a non defense manner it will be grounds for arrest
 

lancers

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well it will help in printing. but, if a cop wants to, it would make it easier to arrest you. because if you do show it in a non defense manner it will be grounds for arrest
That's not true. The law is written horribly though. It's a cluster of vague words that leaves way to much up to interpretation. You may briefly show as long as it's not in an angry and threatening manner. The self defense part applies to if you show it in an angry and threatening manner. That means you can show it in a threatening manner in self defense only.

This law will surely not help you beat the ride to jail in a city that prohibits open carry, but it should help your defense.

Maybe this should be emailed to the police chief and other city leaders that currently ban open carry and encourage them to write the exact same law in their ordinances. Will they do it, probably not. Will it create an electronic record that puts them on notice, yes.
 

Griz

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Missouri has nothing in the statutes regarding printing.
 

LMTD

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That law serves only as a bad example of what the NRA can do to a perfectly good bill when the lobbyist is gutless.

That ladies and gents is exactly what the NRA turned the OC with CCW bill Paul Fitzwater introduces when they rolled it into the omnibus guns bill.

I would call OC with CCW baby steps, I call this a kick in the groin by those who are SUPPOSED to be on our team.

Has anyone else noticed the lobby by the NRA for OC in other states? I have and it is PATHETIC what they did to us, absolutely pathetic weasel politics.

You of course are welcome to disagree.
 

SixGunCowboy

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This new bill..

It sounds to me like this applies to "CC'ers" and not the O.C. people. Unless this is going to replace the O.C. laws..which means that people can no longer O.C. unless one has a CCW permit now. My question is.. What does this mean?
 
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LMTD

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It sounds to me like this applies to "CC'ers" and not the O.C. people. Unless this is going to replace the O.C. laws..which means that people can no longer O.C. unless one has a CCW permit now. My question is.. What does this mean?
I am very unclear how folks keep reading that into the OC with CCW legislation, it means nothing of the sort.

What the OC with CCW bill does is makes it LEGAL for a person with a CCW to OC anywhere in the state, even the municipalities who have made OC illegal. It has no impact what so ever on locations that do NOT restrict OC, those areas remain OC to anyone legal to carry, IE not a felon restricted from firearms ownership.

The POS legislation referenced above applies only to CCW'ers and is NOT an OC bill. It is simply covering one for sure in the instance they are taking their coat off to get in the car and are spotted by the popo with their gun exposed in a locality restricting OC.
 

LMTD

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Statewide pre-emption, nothing less will do. Period.
Without regard for my total agreement and even a step further to CONSTITUTIONAL carry for MO, I am a lot more of a realist and getting OC with CCW, OC preempted as current, or OC preempted all suit me as progress, if you think we are getting preemption on the first shot, well, you must not have been paying any attention to last year.

Agree with you Pete, but that is not a reality for next year, you or anyone else is welcome to try and I pledge my FULL support, even toss some coin at it if you can convince me it will help, but bottom line, in the MO legislature it is not happening in one failed swoop.
 

mspgunner

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Statewide pre-emption, nothing less will do. Period.
All it takes (and we have one) is one anti-2A or OC Senator to filibuster and premption is not going to happen, either is Constitutinal carry. If anyone knows a way to eliminate that threat we can have both. For right now it is going to be pick, pick, pick at firearms rights for years to come. Vote smart, encourage others to do so...
 

REALteach4u

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Trying to pull as much positive out of it as possible....it's a start? :rolleyes:
I'm not convinced that it's a positive. They tried to solve a problem that didn't exist, essentially creating a brand new problem. Read that VERY carefully. It could easily be interpreted as that someone who is carrying concealed must remain concealed and cannot completely uncover...openly carry. If a scumbag lawyer twists it enough it could mean that open carry by a CCW endorsement holder in Missouri or any permit we give reciprocity to would then be unlawful carry because it's not "briefly" displayed as the wording would require.

It makes me sick to my stomach that the authoring politician would not listen to the warnings of several people with LE experience that said this WILL be the case if this becomes law.
 
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REALteach4u

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The NRA is pro CC. It puts money in their pockets.
Really? And just how does that happen?

The NRA does not sponsor in any way State-mandated CCW classes in Missouri. When I last spoke with some big-wigs at the NRA I was informed that they do not approve of NRA course materials being used as CCW classes, but it is perfectly fine if a NRA instructor wants to teach a NRA pistol course so long as it is clearly separate from the State-mandated training that would not be covered by the NRA pistol course. Not a single student that I've taught has EVER been required to send the NRA a dime in any fashion.
 

OC for ME

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571.037. Any person who has a valid concealed carry endorsement, and who is lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner, may briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense.
How exactly would a cop know that a OCer had been carrying in a concealed manner to then cite the carrier for exceeding the "briefly" time limit? This does presume that OC is not banned in that jurisdiction. If OC is banned then this provision is not a "bad" thing in that jurisdiction.

If I am CC then remove my coat or tuck in my shirt that is not OCing, according to some with LE experience, but a brief display that keeps going on and on and on? If OC is not banned this provision could not be twisted to make OC illeag if you are CC and then remover your coat in front of a cop who hates OC but knows the law.

Don't get me wrong, I hear where you are coming from, and is "it" possible, sure anything is possible. But I refuse to get all worked up over this "what if" scenario. 571.037 is a "good" step in the right direction for the citizen who has a slight wardrome malfunction in the "Maplewoods" of the state.
 

mspgunner

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How exactly would a cop know that a OCer had been carrying in a concealed manner to then cite the carrier for exceeding the "briefly" time limit? This does presume that OC is not banned in that jurisdiction. If OC is banned then this provision is not a "bad" thing in that jurisdiction.

If I am CC then remove my coat or tuck in my shirt that is not OCing, according to some with LE experience, but a brief display that keeps going on and on and on? If OC is not banned this provision could not be twisted to make OC illeag if you are CC and then remover your coat in front of a cop who hates OC but knows the law.

Don't get me wrong, I hear where you are coming from, and is "it" possible, sure anything is possible. But I refuse to get all worked up over this "what if" scenario. 571.037 is a "good" step in the right direction for the citizen who has a slight wardrome malfunction in the "Maplewoods" of the state.
I agree with tis post. And it is a step in the right direction. OC freedom is not going to happen in one big leep! It is only going to happen step by step. That my friends is the realisty of Missouri politics in regard to OC rights. It will take many years if we are ever going really get full OC rights. I don't make the rules.... Would we "like" constitutional carry in one sweep? Sure, but it aint gonna happen. We have a great
2A majority in the Missouri House (If it stays that way) , no problem. All it takes is one State Senator to kill a good bill, that's the problem, and we have one of those!
 

Mike

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well it will help in printing. but, if a cop wants to, it would make it easier to arrest you. because if you do show it in a non defense manner it will be grounds for arrest
No, the new statutory provision allowing brief open carry is essentially a **preemption statute** - there is no state law against open carry or printing in Missouri - so what it means is that (1) Defendants accused of violating local open carry bans can claim a safe harbor (temporary OC) and probably (2) the statute probably means that any prosecutor must now prove as an element of the local open carry offense that the open carry was not a temporary open carry; and probably that a prosecutorial failure to claim that the open carry was NOT temporary would provide the Defendant the ability to succeed on a Motion to Dismiss the Case without even MOUNTING a Defense.

In other words, this is a first step toward full preemption in Mossouri and puts these localities off balance on the open carry policy issue - certainly a good justification to ask these localities to repeal their restrictions and force the city councils to face the heat of gun owners when they vote on the motions to repeal their ordiances.
 
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