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Open Carry experience thread.

FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,514
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Secret Bunker
Well, it's been a while since I've posted. Mainly because my "always open carry" policy has been pretty uneventful, until this past Saturday. I was at my local Ace hardware buying some ammo. As I'm talking with the Ace Hardware employee assisting me with my choices, from about 10 feet away I hear something...

Let me diverge for a moment and remind everyone that I normally carry a double gun shoulder rig consisting of two S&W M&P 9s with Trijicon RMR's mounted on top loaded with 23 round mags, with an additional 4 17 round magazines on board. Two under each gun. So my open carry is very much "in your face". Back to the story...

After realizing that a gentleman was talking to me, without every getting my attention,

I said "What?"
He said "Why so many?"
I said "Why so many what?"
He said "Why are you carrying two guns?"

Being caught off guard and not being very good at thinking fast...
I said "Two is one, one is none?"

He began to lecture me about if I were in a hand to hand combat situation I couldn't squeeze my arms together to keep someone from grabbing one or both. Then he said he has been a cop for 20 years and I'm the silliest thing he's every seen. We'll, as soon as he stated he's been a cop for 20 years I just checked out mentally. I've had other people make negative comments to me, which I just chock up to them being liberal cult members. However, the attitude in his voice was "I'm a cop and I know what is best for you." I was polite and just said sarcastically "Thank you for your opinion." I was with my family and didn't need to be a bad example for my young son. Of course after the fact I thought of all kinds of good come backs. I'll be ready for the next time anyone gives me grief:

"May I have your name and phone number? You are obviously an expert regarding firearms. I want to be able to call you anytime I need to make a decision regarding anything that I do with my firearms. No? I don't understand, you're so willing to give me your unsolicited opinion now, why not give me your solicited opinion in the future?"

Yes, so many other things I could say. But that will be my response for any future encounters.

The funny thing is that I've encountered on duty uniformed cops over the last 4 years that I've been carrying my double gun rig and have nothing but positive experiences.
I would have simply said ... how many do you carry? Then quickly said "never mind, what you do legally is none of my damn business...wink..smile.."

I carry what I know works best for me, because being me, I'm the only one who can know that.

To think what I carry or don't is the "best way for others", is just foolish; but fools rarely understand this concept. ;)
 
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Michigander

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Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,835
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Mulligan's Valley
AZ's preemption is shamefully inadequate, the locker rules are a bad joke, and so I don't mean for this to sound as though this was some sort of accomplishment, but it does seem to bear mentioning.

James Baker, Dr Peter Steinmets, myself, a lawyer and Sheriff Mack the latter two witnessing but not OCing went to OC audit the city of Scottsdale per the request of the Goldwater institute to check to see if they have improved on their response when confronted by the requirement to provide secure storage for weapons brought in, as compared to in the past when they had actually had the cops come to take the guns and lock them up at their department, and bring them back when later called, totally out of line with the AZ legal requirement of being immediately accessible. This hasn't come up much, doubtlessly because there are no metal detectors, only signs, and hundreds of people probably CC in their every week, so in the past they didn't really have a protocol because it never crossed their minds someone would want to check a gun, because by any reasonable definition, pro or anti gun, the lockers thing is just dumb and even dangerous since it encourages gun handling in a sensitive area. Nonetheless, they had mostly fixed these issues since previously checked, and except for a small issue that I believe they now have fixed since we visited, they did pass the audit we did.

Having a retired sheriff of the highest order and a lawyer on site for an already very very low risk outing made it a remarkably low intensity event, very different from what James and I are used to with challenging corruption in the midwest. I definitely don't see the city buildings as the place to make an obnoxious stand on these issues, only to ensure legal compliance, because the root problem is with the state, not with the leftist lunatics making up rules that operate within the not so constitutional state legal structure who cannot be widely stopped without state law being fixed. Accordingly we were very polite, as were the city employees.
 
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Fallschirjmäger

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Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,826
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
If I may offer a slightly opposing viewpoint which should not be taken as any reflection on the above poster.

I actually like the requirement for providing lockers it strikes a nice compromise (yeah, as much as we all hate compromise it IS a useful tool) between those who wish to exercise their 2A rights in as many legal locations as possible and those who'd rather not have weapons in their facilities (which, unless there's a storage spot available means leaving a firearm in a vulnerable automobile, or worse, at home)

13-3102.01. Storage of deadly weapons; definitions

A. If an operator of a public establishment or a sponsor of a public event requests that a person carrying a deadly weapon remove the weapon, the operator or sponsor shall provide temporary and secure storage. The storage shall be readily accessible on entry into the establishment or event and allow for the immediate retrieval of the weapon on exit from the establishment or event.

B. This section does not apply to the licensed premises of any public establishment or public event with a license issued pursuant to title 4.

C. The operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event or the employee of the operator or sponsor or the agent of the sponsor, including a public entity or public employee, is not liable for acts or omissions pursuant to this section unless the operator, sponsor, employee or agent intended to cause injury or was grossly negligent.

D. For the purposes of this section, "public establishment" and "public event" have the same meanings prescribed in section 13-3102.
Essentially this gives public establishments a way to control weapons IF they are willing to spend money they could otherwise have budget to more meaningful pursuits. I would wonder, if a locker meeting 13-3102.01 is not available, what recourse is there? May one ignore any 'no firearms' signs with impunity? Would one have to bring suit against the public establishment?

Do "No Guns" signs in AZ have force of law?
Does that only apply to "on-sale retailer" as specified in ARS 4-229 and is "on sale retailer" the AZ term for one o' them fancy likker stores?
 
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Michigander

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,835
Location
Mulligan's Valley
There can be no reasoned compromise on this matter. A government opting to steal peoples money at the threat of death or imprisonment and then denying the people the ability to defend themselves if they want to get back table scraps of what they used the money on, that cannot be tolerated.

While we were at the library, I suppose to be smart asses since every one of us knows the exact wording and applicable case law by memory, we looked up the second amendment in the encyclopedia to attempt to find the library exemption, and did not find it.
 

Michigander

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,835
Location
Mulligan's Valley
I very, very rarely get comments from bystanders about HGOC anymore. For the first time I can remember since I don't know when, I heard a comment tonight while jogging past two guys. Specifically "damn"
 

Bucko

New member
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
36
Location
Tucson
Trader Joe's | Tempe, AZ | McKlintock and Guadalupe

On the way home from work stopped at a Trader Joe's that I pass. No issue as it usually is. Was stopped on the way out by a young man who shared that he and his cashier had a conversation that at that moment this was the safest TJ's in Tempe. He asked what ammo I had loaded in my mags (9mm 135grn Hornady Critical Duty). How many mags I carry and how much ammo that was. Very nice conversation. Another good day, as they usually are, doing the oc.
 

Rusty Young Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
1,548
Location
Árida Zona
Back to old stomping grounds to visit family for Christmas. OCing in Tucson, Oracle and Ina area. Wal-Mart, Luck Wishbone, Vet for our little dog. No issues.
Hope you had a great time in the fair state of AZ. :)


On the way home from work stopped at a Trader Joe's that I pass. No issue as it usually is. Was stopped on the way out by a young man who shared that he and his cashier had a conversation that at that moment this was the safest TJ's in Tempe. He asked what ammo I had loaded in my mags (9mm 135grn Hornady Critical Duty). How many mags I carry and how much ammo that was. Very nice conversation. Another good day, as they usually are, doing the oc.
Glad to hear you had no issues, and that more folks are understanding the difference between real safety and perceived safety. :)


My OC since last post:
No issues at Sam's Club, In-N-Out, two different Burger Kings, three McDonald's, Filiberto's, three different Fry's, four Walgreen's, two Home Depots, two JC Penny's stores, Mama's Hawaiian BBQ (the one right next to the university), a Dairy Queen and one Eegee's (think "fruit-chunk slurpee", local to Tucson).

Did see one OCer shopping at Sam's Club with his family so I made sure to thank him for OCing. Seems he does it all the time, but I never had the fortune of crossing paths with him. :)

Saw another guy (24-29 years old?) OCing at Walgreen's. Didn't get to say anything, but saw what could have been an OCed M&P on his hip.
 
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D1KarVer

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
16
Location
Alachua County Area
I am in Florida and I hope open carry comes legal in this state.
As it is here, there are off limits even concealed carried.
So my question to the AZ folk is, is oc allowed in post offices? Or banks? How about in restaurants that have a bar or serving beer? County or state areas?
We have a county area called a dump we can drop off garbage, technically were on county land and a area a firearm is to be left in the vehicle. No carry in post offices, not supposed to in some banks... or a court house.
How is carry in y'alls experience with other states?
Thanks for any insights
 

Rusty Young Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
1,548
Location
Árida Zona
I am in Florida and I hope open carry comes legal in this state.
As it is here, there are off limits even concealed carried.
So my question to the AZ folk is, is oc allowed in post offices? Or banks? How about in restaurants that have a bar or serving beer? County or state areas?
We have a county area called a dump we can drop off garbage, technically were on county land and a area a firearm is to be left in the vehicle. No carry in post offices, not supposed to in some banks... or a court house.
How is carry in y'alls experience with other states?
Thanks for any insights
I too wait with bated breath for our Floridan brothers (and sisters) to be able to OC freely (as it should be). :)

To answer your question:
U.S. Post Office is off limits due to FEDERAL, not local, decree. :( Basically, us mere peons are prohibited, by our benevolent government, from carrying anywhere a Federal worker is conducting business. There is supposed to be conspicuous signage if the is the case.


Banks, supermarkets, and other private businesses are ok to carry in (OC, CC, or "hybrid";)). If there are signs up banning :)rolleyes:) weapons from the premises then it is best not to patronize the business. That said, you would only get in trouble for trespassing (misdemeanor).


In the case of places that serve alcohol for consumption on the premises, one would need to have a CCW permit and may only carry CC. Yeah, any of our Nevadan brethren who come down here and see how Arizonans can't lawfully OC while drinking a beer with friends at a restaurant realize how spoiled they are. :p

Seriously though, the trip to Nevada was worth it just to see what Freedom is like. And I don't even drink beer. :eek:



NOTE: give me a sec to see if I can find the applicable Federal stuff ("Trust, but verify").

Carry in FEDERAL facilitate:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/930

Cornell link said:
18 U.S. Code § 930 - Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

SNIP...

(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

SNIP...

(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.
 
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FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,514
Location
Secret Bunker
I am in Florida and I hope open carry comes legal in this state.
As it is here, there are off limits even concealed carried.
So my question to the AZ folk is, is oc allowed in post offices? Or banks? How about in restaurants that have a bar or serving beer? County or state areas?
We have a county area called a dump we can drop off garbage, technically were on county land and a area a firearm is to be left in the vehicle. No carry in post offices, not supposed to in some banks... or a court house.
How is carry in y'alls experience with other states?
Thanks for any insights
The post office restrictions are federal, not state, thus no carry in any post office is legal for a mere mortal citizen. :(

Carry (OC/CC/Hybrid) is legal in banks here. This said, signs do have force of law here and ANY business can post them. If you should happen to miss the sign (easily done as many are near transparent), you must leave when asked or face trespassing charges.

It is my sincere hope that AZ adopts a law similar to another state back east (KY ???) that holds any business open to civil action should a normally lawful carrier be forced to disarm to enter their property then is harmed or killed due to the business not providing protection for their safety.

Only then will we see the gun buster signs come down in my honest opinion.

One may carry with a permit (CC) in a business that serves alcohol for consumption on site if: the place is not posted & the carrier does not drink.

AZ does have state firearms preemption laws. This means no county or municipal government may create ordinances that are stricter than state law. Most county "land" is carry friendly, however ... state, county & local government buildings can & do post no carry signs, by law they must provide storage for your firearm if posted. :(

AZ has lots of good gun law on the books but... as you can see there's plenty of room for improvement. ;)

I am not a lawyer just my understanding from reading the Arizona Gun Owners guide which puts the state law in layman's terms. Both links below:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SB10R30


http://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/03102.htm
 
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FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
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Secret Bunker
@ Rusty - lol we must have posted at nearly the same time. I type so damn slow I missed your excellent response before sending my post. Hey call it a crossfire of knowledge [emoji14]
 
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Rusty Young Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
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Location
Árida Zona
Another OC sighting to warm your day

Haven't had any issues while carrying around Tucson, AZ. Just wanted to share an OC sighting that really warmed my heart.

Yesterday after picking up groceries I saw a Caucasian gentleman with (I presume) his son and his dog out for a walk.

I was at a stoplight and they were walking across the street ahead of me. The little kid waved to me so I smiled and waved back. That was when I realized the gentleman was Openly Carrying what looked like a parkerized 1911 with wood grips in an IWB holster. Rolled down the window to give the guy a thumbs up and to thank him for carrying.

At times like that I find myself wishing more parents would OC while they're going about their day with their families in tow. Show the fence-sitters exactly how normal and uneventful it really is.
 

azcdlfred

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
905
Location
Tucson, Arizona, USA
AZ's preemption is shamefully inadequate, the locker rules are a bad joke, and so I don't mean for this to sound as though this was some sort of accomplishment, but it does seem to bear mentioning.
Thanks for bringing that up! It took us (AzCDL) several years to get preemption to where it is now from the crappy law it was before.

We're always pushing for improvements to all the gun laws, but you know what one of our biggest obstacles is? Gun owner apathy.

Not working to make things better is an acceptance of the status quo. Griping about laws on Internet forums is not activism.

The 2017 Legislative session has been going on for over a month now. Want to make a difference?
Subscribe to AzCDL's alerts list.
Monitor our Bill Tracking page.
Use RTS to contact committee members.
Send the letters we set up at our Legislative Action Center.
Join AzCDL.

It only takes a few mouse clicks to make a difference.

Fred
AzCDL Treasurer
(treasurer@azcdl.org)
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
7,731
Location
here nc
Thanks for bringing that up! It took us (AzCDL) several years to get preemption to where it is now from the crappy law it was before.

We're always pushing for improvements to all the gun laws, but you know what one of our biggest obstacles is? Gun owner apathy.

Not working to make things better is an acceptance of the status quo. Griping about laws on Internet forums is not activism.

The 2017 Legislative session has been going on for over a month now. Want to make a difference?
Subscribe to AzCDL's alerts list.
Monitor our Bill Tracking page.
Use RTS to contact committee members.
Send the letters we set up at our Legislative Action Center.
Join AzCDL.

It only takes a few mouse clicks to make a difference.

Fred
AzCDL Treasurer
(treasurer@azcdl.org)
well said

ipse
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,125
Location
northern wis
Been opening carrying around Yuma for the last two months haven't had one comment good or bad.

Seems like were are winning.

The only other open carrier I have seen has been my brother.

But then the weather has been cooler here this year and the locals have a lot of jackets on.
 

Rusty Young Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
1,548
Location
Árida Zona
No issues with OC since the last update. Sam's Club, several Fry's, two Eegee's, a Sear's, a Best Buy, a Home Depot, two Ace Hardwares and Yogurtland (don't knock it til you try it). I'm sure there's more that I'm forgetting. I forget to remember stuff sometimes. :p

Most eventful experience was this past Saturday, the 1st of May. Most importantly that day, NOT A SINGLE "April Fools" prank or reference was invoked. Put in some range time with three Brothers of mine that day near Casa Grande to try out a 10" steel gong. Not bad. :)

Afterwards, three of us hit up the In-N-Out in Casa Grande with our OCed sidearms. A few curious glances, some "discreet" pointing and whispering :)rolleyes:), and some delicious burgers.

As a side note: I find it odd that I carry a dark-colored sidearm contrasting on LIGHT colored clothing (to reflect the sun and heat better) and my two brothers carry dark-colored sidearms on dark clothing and their sidearms are the first ones people see. :confused:
 
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