Open Carry vs Concealed Carry - a comprehensive response

[sudden valley gunner]

I would say that surprise is a tactical advantage. Being left alone is a strategic goal.

Nukes are a perfect example. Tactical nukes were designed to be used after we were already in a conflict. Strategic nukes were designed not to be used, but instead to result in our being left alone, due to the known threat that we meant business.

I strategically carry my firearm in a way that hopefully obviates the need for a tactical advantage.


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<o>

Like GRape said, there is no concrete proof, but how many OCers have been someplace and shady charators pulled into Apu's mart,a nd saw an ope carrier, and drove away? No stats, to back it up, but I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts, it happens DAILY. A CCer wouldn't be noticed....Does that make sense? AS stated EVERYWHERE, crimanls prefer an easy target, in, and out...

Primus has an agenda while pretending not too.

The lack of occurrences of OC'ers using their weapons is in itself a strong indicator that it works as a deterrent.

I have seen the deterrent effect and so has a few of my OC friends.

And on a side note I was doing a lot of work for friends of mine who own an AM/PM gas/minimart.....I was told that during the week I was in their store a lot more than usual there was a large and noticeable reduction in stolen beer, that they normally write off as a business expenses
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[SFCRetired]

All one has to do is find a Wally World, or similar establishment, in a seedier part of almost any town, wait until dark (most of those parking lots are fairly well-lighted), and get out of your car open carrying.

This is what I have noticed (YMMV): As I park, there are usually anywhere from two to as many as five of our local "wannabe's" standing around. When I open my door and the interior lights come on, I can usually see an increase in interest ("Hey, there's an old guy! Bet he's a push-over!). By the time I have exited my car, locked it, and started toward the entrance, I can see movement in my direction. First light that I pass under, I sometimes hear a muffled, "Oh, s..t!" At that point, the movement starts away from me.

Now, this applies only to the criminal element that is not under the influence of one or more controlled substances. When you add the controlled substances and/or mental illness to the equation, all bets are pretty much off.

 

[OC for ME]

Primus has an agenda while pretending not too.

Bingo.

The lack of occurrences of OC'ers using their weapons is in itself a strong indicator that it works as a deterrent.

I have seen the deterrent effect and so has a few of my OC friends. <snip>[?QUOTE]Some folks, the CC only crowd, just don't like the fact that there are no facts to prove that OC is not a deterrent.

I point to the GZ incident to illustrate when the CC'd pistol would/could be employed, as in while your head is being slammed against the cement.....repeatedly. It is only by dumb luck the GZ was not knocked unconscious before he could employ his pistol.

 

[papa bear]

with the rash of unmarked patrol cars here lately. it made me think how much like CC it was. the person in the unmarked wants people to not know that they are in a patrol car so they can catch someone doing something illegal ( to me a little like entrapment). i think that is one of the things CCers do. they want to look like soft targets so someone will try something on them, just so they can shoot them. maybe a wanna be hero complex

 

[Primus]

Primus has an agenda while pretending not too.

The lack of occurrences of OC'ers using their weapons is in itself a strong indicator that it works as a deterrent.

I have seen the deterrent effect and so has a few of my OC friends.

And on a side note I was doing a lot of work for friends of mine who own an AM/PM gas/minimart.....I was told that during the week I was in their store a lot more than usual there was a large and noticeable reduction in stolen beer, that they normally write off as a business expenses
.

What's my agenda? If I recall this thread title is Open Carry VS. Concealed Carry- a comprehensive response.

Did I miss that? My agenda is to keep me and mine safe. Period. I was under the impression this was where both sides could make a case of OC or CC. No one is trying to change people from OC to CC or vice versa. I wouldn't waste mine or your time.

I get it, there's no numbers to state it. So the opinion is "No numbers equals good numbers". So be it that's your opinion.

The only numbers that were posted (by an NRA backed study) actually showed majority (over 50%) of criminals don't care if you have a gun in the open and that they fear gun laws, and that they don't fear being shot by someone who is home when they break it. I didn't write the study, find the study, nor even post the study. I merely read it like everyone else.

Again, I've said about 6 times I'm a CCer, but I appreciate the fact you guys OC and carry in general. We are on the same team, just different tactics.

Moving on...

 

[Grapeshot]

--snipped--

I get it, there's no numbers to state it. So the opinion is "No numbers equals good numbers". So be it that's your opinion.

No numbers = no evidence provided either way. Never said it equaled good numbers = that is much more than a quantum leap, it is a faulty assumption. The absence of numbers cannot be referred to as "good numbers."

No numbers/events/occurrences to the contrary (zero) means that one may logically conclude that OC is a viable, safe, effective way to carry.

 

[Primus]

No numbers = no evidence provided either way. Never said it equaled good numbers = that is much more than a quantum leap, it is a faulty assumption. The absence of numbers cannot be referred to as "good numbers."

No numbers/events/occurrences to the contrary (zero) means that one may logically conclude that OC is a viable, safe, effective way to carry.

I understand and that's makes sense. I appreciate that explanation.

As I said, the study provided did show some evidence. It was polls and questions of the very bad guys that we discuss. That was the numbers I was referring to. Barring those numbers, I agree you can't equate how many lives are saved by OCing. It's like the gun grabbers trying to equate how many lives are saved by gun laws. They can't based on no numbers. If there's no numbers you can attribute it to a million things. I'm tall, muscled, short, fat, male, female, hard target, carry a knife, carry a gun, carry a big gun, carry a small gun, avoid bad areas, am just generally bad a**, so I don't get robbed.

I agree with you, tough without numbers. Well put.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

What's my agenda? If I recall this thread title is Open Carry VS. Concealed Carry- a comprehensive response.

Did I miss that? My agenda is to keep me and mine safe. Period. I was under the impression this was where both sides could make a case of OC or CC. No one is trying to change people from OC to CC or vice versa. I wouldn't waste mine or your time.

I get it, there's no numbers to state it. So the opinion is "No numbers equals good numbers". So be it that's your opinion.

The only numbers that were posted (by an NRA backed study) actually showed majority (over 50%) of criminals don't care if you have a gun in the open and that they fear gun laws, and that they don't fear being shot by someone who is home when they break it. I didn't write the study, find the study, nor even post the study. I merely read it like everyone else.

Again, I've said about 6 times I'm a CCer, but I appreciate the fact you guys OC and carry in general. We are on the same team, just different tactics.

Moving on...

Because of your use of words that points to what your true feelings are. Not just in this thread.

 

[Primus]

Because of your use of words that points to what your true feelings are. Not just in this thread.

Oh ok, glad you have ESP and know my "true feelings" on matters. In any thread. I'm still undecided in many ideas/concepts, so I'm glad you've made my mind up for me. I can say being hostile towards myself (not quite there yet) will certainly decide how I feel for me. I'm polite and respectful so return the favor. Otherwise you make all gun guys look bad, to include myself.

 

[eye95]

Because of your use of words that points to what your true feelings are. Not just in this thread.

Vague accusations of one "having an agenda" are kinda silly. If you want these posts to be taken seriously, you should either flat-out state a position he has with which you disagree or knock off the nebulous insults. Right now, your posts are communicating nothing.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Vague accusations of one "having an agenda" are kinda silly. If you want these posts to be taken seriously, you should either flat-out state a position he has with which you disagree or knock off the nebulous insults. Right now, your posts are communicating nothing.

At least one other person got it.

It's not vague maybe you just don't see it. But when you push a certain method or preference and use fallacy logic to back it up you have an agenda.

The opposing arguments have been stated the arguments have been ignored not only in this thread.....get it?

 

[eye95]

At least one other person got it.

It's not vague maybe you just don't see it. But when you push a certain method or preference and use fallacy logic to back it up you have an agenda.

The opposing arguments have been stated the arguments have been ignored not only in this thread.....get it?

Oh, well, I tried.

Moving on.

 

[Emmeric]

I was in Safeway last year in Butte, MT, one of the friendliest for OC areas in the nation.

Got asked by the register clerk, who looked very nervous, if I was "going to shoot anyone." Point of reference, I am older, long hair, mostly white beard, and extremely well-dressed.

I looked at the woman, gave my typical "very-friendly-smile" and said "my greatest fear is ever having to draw it from my holster."

She ignored my comment and looked at the sidearm as if it were going to leap out on its own and start mass-murdering people. Those kind of people are hopeless, but I still treated her question with respect.

 

[jeffrey-r]

The only numbers that were posted (by an NRA backed study) actually showed majority (over 50%) of criminals don't care if you have a gun in the open and that they fear gun laws, and that they don't fear being shot by someone who is home when they break it. I didn't write the study, find the study, nor even post the study. I merely read it like everyone else.

I just feel like you are not reading the survey correctly.

Q: Have you ever been scared off, shot at, wounded or captured by an armed citizen? 37% agree.
You say: This means 63% of criminals are not scared by an armed citizen.
Actually says: This means 63% of criminals either A) are not scared by an armed citizen or B) have never encountered an armed citizen.

The part to focus on is the 37% of criminals who admitted to being deterred or otherwise engaged, at some point, by an armed citizen. It's completely possible that the remainder just never had the opportunity.

This is evidenced by the next question:
Q:Thinking of all the crimes you ever committed . . . .Did you ever run into a victim armed with a gun? 34% yes.

It's not that criminals state they are not scared of citizens with firearms, it's that they had never run into them.

You said "they don't fear getting shot by someone during a home invasion." But the survey says "74% agreed that "One reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot."

So I don't understand why you are drawing conclusions that are the opposite of what the report actually says.

 

[OC for ME]

Primus is not drawing conclusions. If he were you would not have had to post what you posted. Primus is promoting a agenda.....I'm just not sure what agenda he is promoting. But, I think he is a CC only, or mostly, crowd member. He is all over the map on stuff except when it comes to cops and who decides what is reasonable, he seems to be choosing cops over citizens. He does make a few valid points from time to time and folks would do well to read his words.

 

[jeffrey-r]

Primus is not drawing conclusions. If he were you would not have had to post what you posted. Primus is promoting a agenda.....I'm just not sure what agenda he is promoting. But, I think he is a CC only, or mostly, crowd member. He is all over the map on stuff except when it comes to cops and who decides what is reasonable, he seems to be choosing cops over citizens. He does make a few valid points from time to time and folks would do well to read his words.

Yeah, I get it, you all say he has an agenda. I'd rather reply directly to his statements and request a response as to his reasoning, rather than go off on this tangent again.

 

[eye95]

Yeah, I get it, you all say he has an agenda. I'd rather reply directly to his statements and request a response as to his reasoning, rather than go off on this tangent again.

This post is the cherry on top of the sundae that is the analysis in your previous post. Well done, sir!


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<o>

 

[SFCRetired]

One question: Why can't we all, OC and CC, just agree that each has its place? The important thing is not how, or what, you carry, but that you carry.

As a general rule, I OC, but I will conceal in places where I consider it to be appropriate to conceal and not carry openly. That is my personal view only and your view of things may differ.

 

[OC for ME]

No truer words have ever been spoken SFCRetired. What should we do when a OC discussion board is infiltrated by CC only agent provocateurs?

 

[SFCRetired]

No truer words have ever been spoken SFCRetired. What should we do when a OC discussion board is infiltrated by CC only agent provocateurs?

To tell the absolute truth, I'll be damned if I know, but the best tactic that I can come up with is to be polite but ignore them. Most important, do not engage in a heated dispute with them.

Perhaps they just want attention or perhaps they are gathering damaging quotes from us to be used elsewhere; but, in either case, if we do not engage, they will eventually get tired of their game and, hopefully, go elsewhere. The only other recourse is, when they get out of hand, to ban them, but that is not up to anyone but the admins and owners of this site.