• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

OT: Where to get Black Powder in WA?

R

Right Wing Wacko

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 11, 2007
Messages
645
Location
Marysville, Washington, USA
The subject line says it all... where can I get some 4F (FFFF) Black Powder here in WA.

No... I can't use Pyrodex or Triple 7 or any of the other Black Powder substitudes. I would of course prefer something in my neck of the woods (Snohomish/North King Counties), but pretty much anywhere beats paying a hazmat fee for a single 1lb can of powder!
 
R

Right Wing Wacko

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 11, 2007
Messages
645
Location
Marysville, Washington, USA
Freedom1Man said:
Most gun shops I've been to sell it.

That pawn shop/gun store Sky Valley Traders ? should still carry it. I believe wholesale sports carries it.
Click to expand...

I've checked out most of the local gun shops including Sams, Kesselrings, Wholesale Sports, and Cabelas. All have Black Powder Substitudes such as Pyodex or Triple 7, but none have the real thing.

I don't need a lot, a pound will last me several years. I can easily get it mail order, but the Hazmat fees make that impractical... $27 in fees for a $15 bottle of powder.

EDIT:
Just found out that Kesselrings may actually have some Goex FFFF in stock. It's $25 intead of $15 from Grafs, but..... no Hazmat. Of course that means a trip to Skagit County, but now I have another exuse to drive back up to Kesselrings again.
 
Last edited:
Freedom1Man

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
Right Wing Wacko said:
I've checked out most of the local gun shops including Sams, Kesselrings, Wholesale Sports, and Cabelas. All have Black Powder Substitudes such as Pyodex or Triple 7, but none have the real thing.

I don't need a lot, a pound will last me several years. I can easily get it mail order, but the Hazmat fees make that impractical... $27 in fees for a $15 bottle of powder.

EDIT:
Just found out that Kesselrings may actually have some Goex FFFF in stock. It's $25 intead of $15 from Grafs, but..... no Hazmat. Of course that means a trip to Skagit County, but now I have another exuse to drive back up to Kesselrings again.
Click to expand...

I've found that I normally have to ask for it at the gun counter. One store had F FF and FFF. If you've found some FFFF then you're lucky. 25 per pound sounds about right too.
 
fire suppressor

fire suppressor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
870
Location
Kitsap County
True a lot of places do not display it but you should be able to find it at any gun shop. Whole sale sports in silverdale has a ton of it you just have to ask for it
 
R

Right Wing Wacko

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 11, 2007
Messages
645
Location
Marysville, Washington, USA
fire suppressor said:
True a lot of places do not display it but you should be able to find it at any gun shop. Whole sale sports in silverdale has a ton of it you just have to ask for it
Click to expand...

When I went to Wholesale Sports, the kid operating the gun counter said they had some, but came out with a bottle of Pyrodex and tried to convince me that was the same thing as real gun powder... fortunaly I knew better. He then told me that was all they had. This was at the WS is Burlington about a month or so ago.
 
T

Trigger Dr

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2007
Messages
2,760
Location
Wa, ,
Most gunshops are no longer carring BP as the insurance is much higher, and the state has a different license for it as it is considered an explosive, not a propellant.
I have 40# in a secure magazine (a fireworks co I used to work for)
 
Last edited:
T

Trigger Dr

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2007
Messages
2,760
Location
Wa, ,
Difdi said:
That's really weird. If black powder is an explosive, then so is modern smokeless powder, and even more so than the black powder.
Click to expand...

Wrong... BP has a burn rate that is MUCH MUCH faster than smokeless. Lay down a trail of ANY smokeless and a trail of BP of the same length and depth. light them and then tell me smokeless is an explosive.
 
OlGutshotWilly

OlGutshotWilly

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
443
Location
Snohomish, WA, ,
Difdi said:
That's really weird. If black powder is an explosive, then so is modern smokeless powder, and even more so than the black powder.
Click to expand...

No. You need to study up on your powders. Smokeless powders are propellants, and have varying burn rates. Some burn faster, and many burn slower. You use faster powders in pistols, generally speaking, slower powders in pistol magnums, and much slower powders in rifle loads. That is a very simplistic explanation.

Black powder is an explosive pure and simple. Go do some google work.
 
Freedom1Man

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
Trigger Dr said:
Wrong... BP has a burn rate that is MUCH MUCH faster than smokeless. Lay down a trail of ANY smokeless and a trail of BP of the same length and depth. light them and then tell me smokeless is an explosive.
Click to expand...

You're measuring the OPEN AIR burn rate which is not the same a compact/pressure burn rate.

BP has a lower pressure for it's burn though. You have to be careful if you use modern powders in a BP gun. Modern powders can generate over 100,000 PSI. I can load a 'hot' BP load into a modern rifle and the pressures are going to be in the safe range.

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/bp_burning/bp_burning.html
 
Difdi

Difdi

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
987
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
OlGutshotWilly said:
No. You need to study up on your powders.
Click to expand...

So do you. A little physics wouldn't hurt either.

OlGutshotWilly said:
Smokeless powders are propellants
Click to expand...

So is black powder, and for the exact same reasons.

OlGutshotWilly said:
Black powder is an explosive pure and simple. Go do some google work.
Click to expand...

So is smokeless powder, for the same reason and in the same way. When was the last time you saw an open air burn of black powder explode? You haven't, because it's not an explosive by itself. It must be contained in order to explode. Just like smokeless powder. If smokeless powder didn't explode when contained, guns would go "fizz" instead of "bang".

If you put 40 grains of modern smokeless powder into a black powder firearm designed for 40 grains of black powder, you may keep all your fingers if you are very lucky. But it's doubtful. And worse injuries are very possible.

The simple fact is they are both propellants. If one is an explosive, then they both are.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top