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Question about hypothetical vehicle stop by LEO

Baked on Grease

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Jul 4, 2011
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629
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Sterling, Va.
Suppose your license was rendered invalid (revoked, suspended, expired etc etc) so that you are no longer allowed to operate a motor vehicle on public roads... During this time you let a friend borrow your car registered in your name. Cop pulls them over and releases them after finding out they are not the person registered to the vehicle...

Is the fact that a car is registered/owned by a person who is not allowed to drive enough RAS/PC to pull over the vehicle lawfully, or does the cop need particularized suspicion concerning the person actually driving? Would that stop have been unlawful, simply the cop hoping to catch someone even though they don't have a reason to believe the prohibited driver is the actual driver at that moment other than they own the vehicle?
 

Freedom1Man

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Greater Eastside Washington
Suppose your license was rendered invalid (revoked, suspended, expired etc etc) so that you are no longer allowed to operate a motor vehicle on public roads... During this time you let a friend borrow your car registered in your name. Cop pulls them over and releases them after finding out they are not the person registered to the vehicle...

Is the fact that a car is registered/owned by a person who is not allowed to drive enough RAS/PC to pull over the vehicle lawfully, or does the cop need particularized suspicion concerning the person actually driving? Would that stop have been unlawful, simply the cop hoping to catch someone even though they don't have a reason to believe the prohibited driver is the actual driver at that moment other than they own the vehicle?

That, from what I have learned, varies from state to state.

Washington it is PC for a stop, but if you say that the vehicle is not yours when they ask, they cannot take the stop any farther.
 

Primus

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United States
That, from what I have learned, varies from state to state.

Washington it is PC for a stop, but if you say that the vehicle is not yours when they ask, they cannot take the stop any farther.

Mass is similar. Can stop and ID operator. Does seem to vary state by state.

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color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
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5,946
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
I would think any state that would allow such a thing would be in violation of Terry - RAS.

Owning and licensing a motor vehicle has no correlation to having a driver/operator license. If that were the case Avis and Hertz rental car would need a driver license. Have you ever seen a corporation take a driver test?
 

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
Why possess a drivers license at all. Unless driving for commercial purposes only.

Do not enter into any contract with DMV.. Do not surrender natural rights for a privilege.

My .02

CCJ
 

sudden valley gunner

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Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Why possess a drivers license at all. Unless driving for commercial purposes only.

Do not enter into any contract with DMV.. Do not surrender natural rights for a privilege.

My .02

CCJ

I agree on principle and by law. I can't afford to fight the violent coercion of the state at this juncture alone. Now if even 20% of my state refused, I am on board, there would be noway for the state to process it, no way to find juries that would convict.
 

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
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2,505
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nj
I agree on principle and by law. I can't afford to fight the violent coercion of the state at this juncture alone. Now if even 20% of my state refused, I am on board, there would be noway for the state to process it, no way to find juries that would convict.

SVG

I can only suggest that you reread your signature. U.S. v Minker.. The truth will indeed set you free.
Best regards

CCJ
 

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
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Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,239
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
http://rt.com/usa/license-scanners-private-database-046/

Automated license plate readers used by car repo companies, for example, collect billions of personal records per year, which contribute to vast databases that can be used by law enforcement, insurance companies, banks, and the like, with few limits.

BetaBoston, working with the Boston Globe, detailed one Boston repo company’s data collection abilities, reporting that New England Associates Inc. can collect $200 to $400 for each vehicle found by an automated reader attached to an unmarked car. The company says it can typically add 8,000 license plate scans to its database in Texas each day.



Yes, there could be an avenue for abuse...........................YA THINK???
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
There is no requirement that the driver of a vehicle be the registered owner of that vehicle. What is the pretext of the stop? A possible unlicensed driver? Is this PC to stop the vehicle? If there is no observed motor vehicle violation, what is the justification to demand DL once the vehicle is stopped? Trolling for revenue? trolling to pad a arrest record? Trolling for a promotion?
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
There is no requirement that the driver of a vehicle be the registered owner of that vehicle. What is the pretext of the stop? A possible unlicensed driver? Is this PC to stop the vehicle? If there is no observed motor vehicle violation, what is the justification to demand DL once the vehicle is stopped? Trolling for revenue? trolling to pad a arrest record? Trolling for a promotion?


+1

Here I believe they must still visually see if you fit the description. Happened to me.

Don't make it right though.
 

Primus

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Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
3,939
Location
United States
There is no requirement that the driver of a vehicle be the registered owner of that vehicle. What is the pretext of the stop? A possible unlicensed driver? Is this PC to stop the vehicle? If there is no observed motor vehicle violation, what is the justification to demand DL once the vehicle is stopped? Trolling for revenue? trolling to pad a arrest record? Trolling for a promotion?

Yes. It is RAS/PC to a stop. As long as the operator reasonably matches description. Male owner with a suspended license and you see a female driver then no go. Male owner and male driving then can stop and check because its reasonable to believe that the owner of said vehicle is driving the vehicle that he.... Well.... Owns.

I'm assuming it varies state by state as to whether or not you can then check operator for license/papers.

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countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
It gets worse. I had to renew my License and they made me retake my picture because my old one interferes with facial recognition software! :mad:

In NJ, no smiling allowed on DL photo... Sheeple pay $46.00 for a license, then they are not allow to smile on said license photo.. Talk about oppressing..

Regards

CCJ
 

color of law

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Joined
Oct 7, 2007
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5,946
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Yes. It is RAS/PC to a stop. As long as the operator reasonably matches description. Male owner with a suspended license and you see a female driver then no go. Male owner and male driving then can stop and check because its reasonable to believe that the owner of said vehicle is driving the vehicle that he.... Well.... Owns.

I'm assuming it varies state by state as to whether or not you can then check operator for license/papers.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
That's why when I purchase a car it's placed in a trust. No natural persons name is attached to the car.
 
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