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Question for the LEOs

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,169
Location
earth's crust
David-
No shot taken but someone reported a suspicious vehicle parked behind the bank and 2 cops responded. They were walking around my (company decaled) truck, when the door opened and I stepped out, the closest cop started drawing. As a shooter I recognized the draw stroke and thanks to LEO security holsters I was able to get my hands raised before he completed his draw. Once things were straightened out and I was uncuffed he told me he was ready to "blow my damned head off".

I think you need to practice your draw ... :)

What did you get cuffed for? Living?
 

Tacitus42

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2011
Messages
186
Location
Tacoma,Wa
I had double knee replacements the end of Jan. and I just started driving again and walking without crutches just 2 days ago. My question is this, how do I respond to LEO if stopped and ordered out of the car keeping my hands up, as I can not get in or out without using my hands to help bend the knees enough to get through the door? Or if driving my truck (F350 4X4) I have to use the assist handle on the door frame to get in or out.

Also when I start OCing again (I CC now as I could not defend against a snatch) one of the first things a cop tends to yell if responding to a MWG call is "GET ON THE GROUND/KNEES". I can barely bend the knees 90* and the leg muscles are still weak from getting cut and laying around for 3 months and there is no way in hell I can get on the ground or drop to my knees, and generally knee replacement folks can't ever get on their knees due to pain and restricted mobility.

How does one respond to LEO orders when they are physically unable to comply?

Since snatches never happen, and a person CC is more likely to be assaulted then an OC. Wouldn't it be prudent to OC at all times?:D
 

SpringerXDacp

New member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
3,357
Location
Burton, Michigan
Two suggestions:
1. Don't do anything that may motivate a LEO to pull you over, and
2. Prepare a note for your doctor's signature stating the facts, and keep it in your vehicle
Anything other than that, and you're liable to find yourself in a world of unnecessary pain, and there are no guarantees even with #2. Pax...

[video=youtube;8jHCmSjkpqw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jHCmSjkpqw[/video]
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,453
Location
White Oak Plantation
"Sorry, can't do it, I'm fitted with store bought knees."
"What else would you like me to do so that I don't get shot or beaten to a pulp?"
 

WalkingWolf

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Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,925
Location
North Carolina
[video=youtube;8jHCmSjkpqw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jHCmSjkpqw[/video]

There is no excuse for this incident, none. The supposed weapon was never pointed at the officer, never! I am not sure where this has gone but last time I checked he still had his job.

This is pisssssss poor training, police are being taught to disregard the safety of the public over the safety of the people, and unfortunately the courts are backing them up. This poop needs to be a election issue nationwide, but as long as people take the "it's not me, so I don't care" attitude it will continue.

Things were different 20 years ago, the public just did not stay silent when things like Kent State took place. If Kent State were to happen again most people would not raise a eyebrow.

In March the deputy was still on PAID leave, and the sheriff defended the deputies actions saying he would do the same thing. His suggested solution, the state should train the public, not train the police.

Hopefully the voters train this sheriff come election...
 
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OC for ME

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12,453
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White Oak Plantation
<snip>

Things were different 20 years ago, the public just did not stay silent when things like Kent State took place. If Kent State were to happen again most people would not raise a eyebrow.
Valid point. Unfortunately, most of the people would be digging into their pockets for their iPhone to take, then post video. That would be about as close to caring as most people will get.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,449
Location
Valhalla
....

This is pisssssss poor training, ....

Rspectfully, I believe you meant to say piss-poor supervision.

You can train till both you and the trainee are blue in the face, witrh no guarantee that the training will stick. But when confronted with documentation that the training was not followed everything that follows is the responsibility of those that supervise - the line supervisor, the mid-level supervisor, and the person in the big chair who is supposed to be in charge of everybody.

The courts obviously do not agree, but political pressure can be brought to bear to change things from the top down if things will not change from the bottom up. One of the problems is that folks give up too easily - "I joined a demonstration at City Hall but nothing happened" is not a good enough reason to stop complaining but that's what most folks do.

stay safe.
 

F350

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2012
Messages
942
Location
The High Plains of Wyoming
I think you need to practice your draw ... :)

What did you get cuffed for? Living?

1} I was heavy into IPSC/USPSC & NRA Action Pistol (Bianchi Cup) at the time, carrying in a pancake with no thumb strap; I could have taken him with no problem but there was enough light to clearly see he was LEO, didn't want to go down that road.


2}The old "You are not being arrested, I'm detaining you while we investigate and I'm putting you in handcuffs for my protection and yours".

At least they didn't take my 1911 apart (probably didn't know how) it was still loaded with mag in place when they gave it back.
 
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Gil223

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2012
Messages
1,392
Location
Weber County Utah
IMNSHO, the deputy was a bit too quick to use deadly force, and issued no commands ("Hey-hey-hey" is not a command) until after he had fired 6 rounds. It also sounded like the deputy needs an eye exam, since he cannot differentiate between a "shotgun" and a walking cane in his headlights, at what appears to be a distance of roughly 25-35 feet.

In the deputies defense, he saw what HE saw and reacted. If it had been a shotgun, he could have won second-place in a gunfight had he hesitated. I heard genuine remorse in the deputies voice throughout the last 2/3 of the video. "Monday morning quarterbacks", like myself, have a significant advantage over those who must make these split-second decisions. This is not meant to justify the officer's actions, only to see it from both sides. The shooting probably could have been avoided if the deputy - from the relative safety of his vehicle - used his PA to tell the driver "REMAIN IN YOUR VEHICLE - DO NOT EXIT THE VEHICLE!" That's how we used to do it in Davis County, anyway. How sad for everyone involved. :( Pax...
 

Logan 5

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
689
Location
Utah
I dealt with only one high-risk pullover, and I didn't get down on the ground. Almost got a ticket for disorderly, though.

I have enough injuries to my back, neck, hips and knees, they can go straight to hell. I ain't gonna get down on the ground for anyone.

If they don't know how to use common sense and wise discernment, then they sure as hell better not have a badge on their chest.
 

WalkingWolf

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Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,925
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North Carolina
There is no law that a motor vehicle operator cannot exit his vehicle on a traffic stop. On high traffic roads it is safer for both the officer and the driver if the driver exits to the shoulder away from the traffic. The officer had more chance of being slammed by a speeding drunk driver, which has happened more times than officers being shot on traffic stops.

I agree that the officer did not give the proper commands, and the cane was never pointed at him, and in the case of a very old man likely A CANE. Like Monday quarterbacking or not, every case of scrutiny in any legal matter is indeed after the fact quarterbacking. It is how we prevent the return of incidence like Kent State, Waco, Ruby Ridge, and yes this one. Where a innocent man was unjustly shot. The deputy lacks the skills to do the job, he needs to be given the opportunity to find a job more suited to his abilities. I hear Burger King is hiring.
 

WalkingWolf

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Jul 31, 2011
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11,925
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North Carolina
I dealt with only one high-risk pullover, and I didn't get down on the ground. Almost got a ticket for disorderly, though.

I have enough injuries to my back, neck, hips and knees, they can go straight to hell. I ain't gonna get down on the ground for anyone.

If they don't know how to use common sense and wise discernment, then they sure as hell better not have a badge on their chest.

I have only been stopped a few times, never told to get down on the ground or get out of the car. Had a Florida State Patrol once point a gun at me. I had run a red light, not intentionally but it happened. I saw the trooper sitting on the opposite side of the road. He could not get to me until he could get through traffic. I made his job easy and pulled in a parking lot and waited for him. While waiting I got out of the car to inspect my lashing of the bikes on the trailer. Being a jittery rookie he pulled a gun, not sure what he was expecting, he said the bikes could be stolen when I asked him whet the hell he was doing.

This is the problem with pulling a gun when there is no justification, whether by police or LAC. Innocent people sooner of later get shot. Things have changed, because years ago a officer that had a habit of pulling his gun was let go. Back then the police, at least every dept I was on cared what the public thought. The public and the police have been brainwashed since 9/11, AQ delivered a blow that will not go away.
 

OC for ME

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Jan 6, 2010
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12,453
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White Oak Plantation
LE, for the most part, has no interest in improving the public's opinion of them. No matter what I do, I cannot improve LE's image or standing in society that is on the individual cop.
 

hhofent

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
130
Location
Iowa
In regard to the OP's question, I would say that a handicap plate would be the way to go. But if you don't want to take advantage of what that entails, for whatever reason, or simply just don't get one, I'd say just inform the officer if you think getting out will be an issue.
My personal experience with LEOs:
I was coming home late at night going through a town in the rain on my 17th birthday. Well my sunglasses fell off the visor, and I grabbed them as I started to hydroplane. I swerved a bit, and the friendly neighborhood cop didn't care for that. I was about a mile further down the road before I noticed him behind me.
I pulled over as soon as I saw. He came up on the drivers side, but looking in my window, he saw a airsoft M4 under the seat. Scared the piss out of him. He hauled me and my buddy out at gunpoint. Tossed me in his backseat, and my buddy in his backups car. They searched and realized it was a toy. Charged me with reckless driving and evading.
DA dropped the evading charge through lack of evidence and pressure from my lawyer, and I ended up pleading guilty to careless drivng.
Back at the station though, me and LEO both had a good laugh, cuz we both had a good scare. I had no idea that gun was still there, and it was under the seat far enough to hide the orange tip.

Sent from my SCH-R680 using Tapatalk 2
 

JustaShooter

Regular Member
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Jul 26, 2013
Messages
728
Location
NE Ohio
There is no law that a motor vehicle operator cannot exit his vehicle on a traffic stop.

In Ohio there is - for the specific case of a CHL holder when armed.
From ORC 2923.126
If a licensee is the driver or an occupant of a motor vehicle that is stopped as the result of a traffic stop or a stop for another law enforcement purpose and if the licensee is transporting or has a loaded handgun in the motor vehicle at that time, the licensee shall promptly inform any law enforcement officer who approaches the vehicle while stopped that the licensee has been issued a concealed handgun license and that the licensee currently possesses or has a loaded handgun; the licensee shall not knowingly disregard or fail to comply with lawful orders of a law enforcement officer given while the motor vehicle is stopped, knowingly fail to remain in the motor vehicle while stopped, or knowingly fail to keep the licensee's hands in plain sight after any law enforcement officer begins approaching the licensee while stopped and before the officer leaves, unless directed otherwise by a law enforcement officer;

It wouldn't surprise me to find out there are other instances in various states for various reasons.
 

WalkingWolf

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Jul 31, 2011
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11,925
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North Carolina
In Ohio there is - for the specific case of a CHL holder when armed.
From ORC 2923.126


It wouldn't surprise me to find out there are other instances in various states for various reasons.

The old man was not in ohio, he was in SC, he was not armed so there was no license to be concerned about with reference to a firearm. There is no law in SC that regulates staying in or out of the vehicle at a traffic stop. If you can find one let me know.
 
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JustaShooter

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Jul 26, 2013
Messages
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Location
NE Ohio
The old man was not in ohio, he was in SC, he was not armed so there was no license to be concerned about with reference to a firearm. There is no law in SC that regulates staying in or out of the vehicle at a traffic stop. If you can find one let me know.

I was responding to your general, broad, unqualified statement that "There is no law that a motor vehicle operator cannot exit his vehicle on a traffic stop." Had you stated "There is no law in SC..." or had you posted this in the SC forum then I would have refrained from responding as I did, but you did not, so I did not.
 
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