• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Showing ID to police

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,043
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Would you give out all that information to any stranger who simply asks you for it?

So, to answer your question, why not post your full name, birthdate, your DL number, and your address on this forum?

There are cops and former cops on this site so, if you have nothing to hide then you will share that information with the public.

For me it is not about hiding it is just none of a police officer's business who I am.

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
We also need your social security number. After all, you are that number. One of the first things you will learn in policeman school is a persons identity is his social security number.
 

decklin

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Messages
758
Location
Pacific, WA
Code:
You have a very good point. All I am saying is that if I was I was stopped by law enforcement I would rather be on my way as fast as I can and I wouldn't want to escalate the situation and create hostility. Do I think police have any right to stop a law abiding citizen? Hell no. But the last thing I want is some ill-informed cop to think I'm a threat and tackle me to the ground or shoot me.
The easy thing and the right thing are not usually the same. By "cooperating" you are building a potential case against yourself and making it that much harder for the rest of us.
Let's say you get stopped. Witnesses won't pay attention.
Now let's say you're stopped while open carrying. Everybody has noticed. By "cooperating" you're building the prosecutions case, making it harder for the rest of us by teaching the cop bad habits, creating a false impression that OC'ers are up to no good, and teaching everyone watching that the cop is in the right.
Like Mama always said, "Don't borrow trouble."
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,463
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
We also need your social security number. After all, you are that number. One of the first things you will learn in policeman school is a persons identity is his social security number.
Only socialists need a social security number.

Citizens sure do not. I did have a cop get upset about that.

Him : "Why do you not have a SSN attached to your driver license?"

Me: "What law requires a citizen to have a SSN?"

Him: "I am not here to debate laws with you...."


Back story; cop out of his jurisdiction, me obeying the traffic laws at about 02:30, temp somewhere around 16deg F. I passed him noted his out of area car, crossed a valley. He pulled out behind me when I was about a third of the away across. He got up on me at the red light, I had my left turn indicator on. I turn left on thr green, he follows and turns his emergency lights on. I stop, he makes up a BS reason for a stop, (bent license plate, no it was not really bent), I turn on my audio recorder. Then he asked for my paper, I let him know I would be reaching past a pistol on my hip to get my wallet, he acts stupid, I tell him I am not drawing it, just have to reach past it. "Don't touch your gun." I kinda have to, to get into my pocket. Repeat a couple of times. I get my wallet out, my DRIVER LICENSE and hand it over.

"Where are you going?"
"That way." Pointing forward.
"Where are you coming from?"
"The other way"

He keeps asking the questions, accused me of being cagey.

Asks why I will not answer his questions.

Told him that the last time I did that I got handcuffed and harrassed, I am not going to do that again.

.......

Will look for the audio of it if you want it.

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,043
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Having been arrested for 'felony trespassing' for doing nothing more than 'not being dressed in proper sports attire' while walking for exercise in a public park, in daytime, while it was open,...... I cannot disagree with you.

The arrest was non prosequi'd but that didn't stop me from spending 13 hours in jail.




It did pay for a brand spankin' new AR engraved with Officer Bell's badge number as the serial number, so I got that going for me.

Would I go it again?
Been there and done that. When someone starts to tell me how I should act and they have not walked a mile in my boots (our boots) there opinion doesn't really count for much. Respect is earned. Anyone demanding respect does not deserve respect. My point is any officer that approaches me had better have a good reason. If not, in the end, he will wish he never stopped me in the first place.

At some point you have to understand that you are the citizen and they are the servant. They took an oath. And they damn well better live up to that oath.
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,170
Location
earth's crust
Code:
You have a very good point. All I am saying is that if I was I was stopped by law enforcement I would rather be on my way as fast as I can and I wouldn't want to escalate the situation and create hostility. Do I think police have any right to stop a law abiding citizen? Hell no. But the last thing I want is some ill-informed cop to think I'm a threat and tackle me to the ground or shoot me.
You'll be on your way faster by saying "I do not consent to any encounter" then walking away. Freedom requires hostility...them coming up to you is a hostile act.

You are a threat in the eyes of the police ... you're alive aren't you?

But it sounds like you'll be submitting to a non-authorized show of authority.

What you gonna tell your grand-kids when they get shot for not showing their ID fast enough?
 

captrickmoisa

New member
Joined
Jan 9, 2016
Messages
12
Location
West Palm Beach
What's most important if for citizens to know and understand their rights and to know and understand the rules that law enforcement must abide by. If you want to be a wise guy and tell the officer to piss off, go right ahead. Just be warned you just turned up the gain on his radar. Weather you proffer your ID doesn't matter much to him or her. They have an arsenal of resources at their disposal and the time to utilize them. Be assured they will know who you are, where you live, if you have a warrant, the status of your license etc etc.
I would like to believe that since most of us here are of a like mind set , Protect my family , home and rights. That the criminal element doesn't frequent these boards. That being said I'm thinking this is a non issue for about 98% of us. It did however give me pause to think and I discussed it with the wife in the event that one of us had to use our weapon either here at home or on the street what to do next. (Our Lawyers number is now in both our wallets) ok I'm done jabbering.


Semper Fi
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,170
Location
earth's crust
<snip>

"Where are you going?"
"That way." Pointing forward.
"Where are you coming from?"
"The other way"
I actually won a speeding related case because a cop could not testify where I entered the highway ... I refused to answer those "where you coming from/going to" questions .. so you never know what is going to be critical to a judge examining a case's evidence and lack of evidence.

No cop is simply going to ask for ID and that's it.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,204
Location
White Oak Plantation
I actually won a speeding related case because a cop could not testify where I entered the highway ... I refused to answer those "where you coming from/going to" questions .. so you never know what is going to be critical to a judge examining a case's evidence and lack of evidence.

No cop is simply going to ask for ID and that's it.
Transcript? Yes, invoking forum rule 5.
 

1245A Defender

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
4,364
Location
north mason county, Washington, USA
Really????

What's most important if for citizens to know and understand their rights and to know and understand the rules that law enforcement must abide by. If you want to be a wise guy and tell the officer to piss off, go right ahead. Just be warned you just turned up the gain on his radar. Weather you proffer your ID doesn't matter much to him or her. They have an arsenal of resources at their disposal and the time to utilize them. Be assured they will know who you are, where you live, if you have a warrant, the status of your license etc etc.
I would like to believe that since most of us here are of a like mind set , Protect my family , home and rights. That the criminal element doesn't frequent these boards. That being said I'm thinking this is a non issue for about 98% of us. It did however give me pause to think and I discussed it with the wife in the event that one of us had to use our weapon either here at home or on the street what to do next. (Our Lawyers number is now in both our wallets) ok I'm done jabbering.


Semper Fi
You confuse me.
Understanding OUR Rights is paramount,,, true..
Refusing undue requests for ID is not being a wise guy,,, or is it?
Refusing undue demands to show your papers is Patriotic!
One reason is that without your voluntary compliance to undue demands means,,, they,,,
will Not know who you are, where you live, whether you may have a warrant,
the condition of your license to carry/or not,,, etc...
 
Last edited:

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,043
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
What's most important if for citizens to know and understand their rights and to know and understand the rules that law enforcement must abide by. If you want to be a wise guy and tell the officer to piss off, go right ahead. Just be warned you just turned up the gain on his radar. Weather you proffer your ID doesn't matter much to him or her. They have an arsenal of resources at their disposal and the time to utilize them. Be assured they will know who you are, where you live, if you have a warrant, the status of your license etc etc.
I would like to believe that since most of us here are of a like mind set , Protect my family , home and rights. That the criminal element doesn't frequent these boards. That being said I'm thinking this is a non issue for about 98% of us. It did however give me pause to think and I discussed it with the wife in the event that one of us had to use our weapon either here at home or on the street what to do next. (Our Lawyers number is now in both our wallets) ok I'm done jabbering.


Semper Fi
The second most important thing is that the cop needs to know and understand the rules that law enforcement must abide by. The third most important thing is that the cop needs to understand is that when the citizen knows and understands their rights and exercises their rights they, the cop, needs to quit making a fool of themselves and keep lying.

You seem to not understand is that most on this forum respect good police officers. What we don't tolerate is dirty cops. Good police officers don't harass and interfere with citizens. Dirty cops harass and interfere with citizens. My many years of experience has proven that Judges and cops brand the citizen a "wise guy" when the citizen stands up for their rights. They resent citizens with the law in their hand.
 

captrickmoisa

New member
Joined
Jan 9, 2016
Messages
12
Location
West Palm Beach
The second most important thing is that the cop needs to know and understand the rules that law enforcement must abide by. The third most important thing is that the cop needs to understand is that when the citizen knows and understands their rights and exercises their rights they, the cop, needs to quit making a fool of themselves and keep lying.

You seem to not understand is that most on this forum respect good police officers. What we don't tolerate is dirty cops. Good police officers don't harass and interfere with citizens. Dirty cops harass and interfere with citizens. My many years of experience has proven that Judges and cops brand the citizen a "wise guy" when the citizen stands up for their rights. They resent citizens with the law in their hand.
It would seem to me that you have had some less than favorable interaction with law enforcement. The climate and attitude towards the men and women in blue has certainly changed over the years.


Semper Fi
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,204
Location
White Oak Plantation
Years ago citizens respected a fellow citizen who happened to be a cop. It seems to me now that cops demand respect because they are cops.
 

HPmatt

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
1,460
Location
Dallas
A group of police officers are standing outside a Walmart and stopping everyone going in to WalMart and asking for ID so they can check them for outstanding parking tickets/fines/warrants. Do you show your ID?
Unless the Wal-mart is somehow located in a public park, these police are conducting a request for ID (1) on private property, (2) probably not off-duty and as such not being paid by Wal-mart, (3) probably not at the request of Wal-mart (would think this wd not be good for the store's business...), and (4) w no RAS to request ID.

If I lived in the neighborhood, walked to the store with my cash to buy something, there is no reason for me to have any ID.

Either way would refuse the 'request'.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,826
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
Whether you proffer your ID doesn't matter much to him or her. They have an arsenal of resources at their disposal and the time to utilize them. Be assured they will know who you are, where you live, if you have a warrant, the status of your license etc etc.
Please, by all means share with us just how he's going to know that, I'm interested.
 
Top