So it turns out I'm a criminal with no rights.

[joanie]

Hi, I just got back. I went to a dealer to purchase a firearm. I hope I picked the best catogory to post this in. Also, I'm sorry if my anger shows in this posting, I'm really upset at the moment.

I didn't pass the background check, I have no 2ed amendment right. I should be used to it all the times my 4th has been violated, but now, seems all I have left is my 1st, and I don't know how secure even freedom of speech is in some areas concerning me. I don't know if I have a case to sue those responsable for this or not. it would be alot on my plate. This day is wearing on me, they wouldn't even explain why I never passed the check, so my best guess is it could be any number of things, or all of those things combined together.

 

[Freedom1Man]

Chill out, it was likely a glitch in the system. You made it on to a hate list.


Do a full records check and find out what it is that it causing the kick back on the insta-check.

If there is something then contest it. Where you ever even charged with a Felony or DV?

 

[joanie]

Chill out, it was likely a glitch in the system. You made it on to a hate list. Do a full records check and find out what it is that it causing the kick back on the insta-check. If there is something then contest it. Where you ever even charged with a Felony or DV?

I was charged with alot of things, and if you want to believe what the police would say, then yes, they were right to deny me this right. If you opt to believe me over the police, then, should I even have any respect for this bogus background check law?

 

[Firearms Iinstuctor]

Sounds to me like there in more then one issue here.

 

[WalkingWolf]

I was charged with alot of things, going from memory.. Two counts of assualt and domestic violence, criminal trusspass, obstructing official bussiness.. There were things I was not charged with that showed up on incident reports, like, going into stores with my identy discuised in efforts to rob the customers, shoplifting and filming after being asked repeatedly not to, carrying a gun into a store and laundrymat, crawling under my car in a parking lot, and theres probibly more that don't come to mind at the moment, and theres probibly a few more things that has been added to my criminal record that I'm unaware of since the last time I checked it. Then there was the two times I was forced into a mental institution by Franklin county sheriffs under the premise that I am a danger to myself and others.

And if you want to believe what the police would say, then yes, they were right to deny me this right. If you opt to believe me over the police, then, should I even have any respect for this bogus law other than to stay invisible as much as I can and accept my place as lowlife scum. Far as the firearms dealer goew, he alone made the choice to not sell me the firearm. It's his right to do so if he wants to follow a bogus law, however he never mentioned this possibility to me over the phone, if he had I would NOT, have driven 200 miles. By my count, he owes me 50 dollars for my gas used, and my Saturday back. I know, I should just chill out, it was only a glitch in the system, BTW, I'm on alot of hate lists. I'll give myself a week to cool down before I start making calls, but I doubt the week will make a diffrence.

If this isn't a glitch in the system, if I can't do anything about it, then I will be out of place posting here in the future, and I really should turn over the new discussion forum I started (OhioOpenCarry) to someone else to run. Being close to open carry and gun related groups, well, lets just say that would make it impossible for me to chill out.

Get a attorney, to take a guess I would say it is the mental institution thang, if you have no convictions on the other charges. If it is that, it can be reversed.

 

[MarksmanCentral]

Get a attorney, to take a guess I would say it is the mental institution thang, if you have no convictions on the other charges. If it is that, it can be reversed.

This. There are several things that could cause you to be revoked. The mental illness thing is the most likely. It appears that you have been charged with several crimes that upon conviction would have screwed you as well. It may also be that one or more of these things are still showing up even if no conviction was made. It is not unheard of for the system to fail. As was mentioned above. I would have a complete check ran and see what is actually there. In the mean time, try to remember that being angry often makes matters worse. Being a nice guy with a firm handshake is always better than a jerk with a fist.

 

[joanie]

Get a attorney, to take a guess I would say it is the mental institution thang, if you have no convictions on the other charges. If it is that, it can be reversed.

I might just do that.

 

[Firearms Iinstuctor]

It seems to me it is time to retain very good legal counsel and let them be your voice.

Trying to do this yourself doesn't seem to be working.

When you find yourself in a hole it is time to stop digging.

It could very well cost you thousands of dollars in legal fees but as you have a history and problems with the local law enforcement it could very well be the only way.

 

[Utah_Patriot]

Either your joking or their is a reason your not allowed to own firearms either way the system works.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[Freedom1Man]

Either your joking or their is a reason your not allowed to own firearms either way the system works.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Really? How does this prove that the system works?

Where is the government's constitutional authority to regulate who can and cannot own weapons/arms/guns?

 

[09jisaac]

Either your joking or their is a reason your not allowed to own firearms either way the system works.

Just as the school system has worked for you?

 

[Freedom1Man]

Just as the school system has worked for you?

No personal attacks .
He cannot help the fact that he is a product of the public fool system.

 

[skidmark]

Thanks for sharing your list of personal problems. It's probably TMI right now, but you have gone and done it and there's no stuffing that genie back in its bottle.

When will you be doing the paperwork to challenge the denial? You did know there is a procedure you can follow (that word "follow" is very important - as in no, you cannot go outside the lines and try to do it "your way") to 1) find out specifically why you were denied, and 2) to challenge that if the informatio is not accurate?

I'm going to make a guess that your forced visits to the inside of a mental health facility were for evaluation purposes, which means that they would not be a bar to passing a background check. If after the 3-day eval period the shrinks went back to court and told the judge you needed to be held against you will a bit longer, and the judge agreed, that would be the disqualifier.

As for all the other stuff you have been charged/arrested for - none of it should be a problem. You need to look at what you have been convicted of.

You say

Far as the firearms dealer goew[sic], he alone made the choice to not sell me the firearm. It's his right to do so if he wants to follow a bogus law, however he never mentioned this possibility to me over the phone,

- was that decision made based on failing a background check or based on the fact that a FFL can refuse to sell a firearm to someone just because it's a day ending in the letter "y"? As for the FFL following a "bogus law" - which law might that be? The one about not transferring firearms to people who fail background checks? Or the one that says certain convictions mean you can no longer possess a firearm?

You are really good at obfuscating the issues. Besides making it impossible to determine if you have any legitimate complaint, it does nothing towards gaining you any sympathy.

stay safe.

 

[skidmark]

I may just do that. But first, I need to gather information, find out more about this background check, and the people behind it, find out more about the sheriff department's power in this area, and the mental places (there were two) where they had me locked up. ....

Apparently you are unaware of how a background check for a firearm transfer works. In really basic terms it goes like this:

1) FFL makes a phone call/computer contact with NICS, giving your name and (if provided) your SSN
2) Dweeb at NICS enters your name (and SSN if provided) into a database search of criminal records submitted to the FBI
3a) Dweeb sees there are no records matching your name (and SSN if provided) and sends a "proceed" message to the FFL; or
3b) Dweeb sees at least one match and sends a "do not proceed" (denial) message to the FFL. Dweeb does not send any info on why approval is denied
4a) FFL receives "proceed" message and completes the transfer; or
4b) FFL, receives "proceed" message but, for any reason including because it is a day ending in "y", decides not to complete the transfer. FFL does not have to tell you why; or
4c) FFL receives "do not proceed" message and refuses to complete the transfer. FFL may or may not call the police to report a prohibited person trying to purchase a firearm. FFL does not have to tell you they have called the police, but does have to tell you the background check was failed.

The sheriff's department has no "power" in this, except for previously submitting data to the FBI that would then show up on a NICS check. The "mental places" have no way of submitting data - if you were involuntarily committed for something besides an evaluation, the courts send the information over to the sheriff's department to be submitted to the FBI.

You might want to check your tin foil to see if some of it has dulled.

stay safe.

 

[marshaul]

Either your joking or their is a reason your not allowed to own firearms either way the system works.

Just as the school system has worked for you?

No personal attacks .
He cannot help the fact that he is a product of the public fool system.

In this rare instance, the personal attack really makes a very good point.

 

[marshaul]

The sheriff's department has no "power" in this, except for previously submitting data to the FBI that would then show up on a NICS check. The "mental places" have no way of submitting data - if you were involuntarily committed for something besides an evaluation, the courts send the information over to the sheriff's department to be submitted to the FBI.

You might want to check your tin foil to see if some of it has dulled.

I had pretty much the exact same thoughts.

I still believe joanie would immeasurably benefit from learning how to live life "under the radar".

I know a couple people who are always finding themselves in this sort of trouble. None of them are criminals or even bad people, which means I consider them victims. And I fully accept that our system victimizes such people. That said, these innocent victims tend to play a part in the process. That's not to say they do anything illegal or immoral which justifies the treatment they receive at the hands of the law; it is to say that there is almost always a point where if they had let something go and simply gone home, they could have avoided being victimized.

That doesn't make it right, or justifiable. But, in the same way a rape victim might learn to carry a weapon, a constant victim of this sort of abuse might consider learning how to defer conflict and stay under the radar. Because, in this world, being innocent is unfortunately not enough to avoid being victimized.

 

[Freedom1Man]

humor and agreeing

In this rare instance, the personal attack really makes a very good point.

I think you missed the point of my response. I was adding to the point.

 

[eye95]

Ask the gun dealer (or any FFL) for an appeal card. The FBI is required to explain to you exactly why you were denied. The appeal process is a pain in the ass (I suspect it was deliberately made so to discourage appeals), but it is your right under the law.

You can also go to the FBI NICS page to find out how to appeal.

So far, only one of the denials we have gotten has been appealed, and he won the appeal. The rest seemed to just take it in stride, like they knew it was coming and had been hoping against hope that the FBI didn't notice that thing they didn't bother to mention on their 4473.

Good luck, but bear in mind, you don't have to be a criminal to be denied.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

 

[joanie]

The way I see it, these background checks are a joke, and yes, bogus. Also, the Sheriffs submiting bogus information about me does mean they too have a say about it when this information is taken as the truth by those who decide on my rights. This system of law and government is not just, and not anything close to justice. If they thought there was a good chance I would misuse this firearm in a way they could use to impliment more gun control, or ban guns, then they would not only approve me to purchase it, they would buy it for me, and include tons of ammo. This isn't about keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, I'm proof of that, it's about driving firearms into the hands of criminals. Thats what this will result in, my guns were save in my hands, they may not be in the hands of the next owner.

If an attorney is going to cost me alot of money, I may not be able to take any such action. But let this be a notice to the gun culture, if they can do this to me, it's only a matter of time before they do this to you. I'm watching our rights go right down the toilet and sounding the warning. Do with it what you will.

 

[DryBones]

The background checks may seem like a joke to you but they are the law. Don't like it? Try get the laws changed. Just complaining about them or trying to ignore them does nothing except probably get you deeper in the hole.