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Suggestions for my stubborn mother?

Large Caliber Kick

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I'm looking for an effective, less than lethal, method of defense for my mother who refuses to use lethal methods to defend her life because she believes she will go to hell for taking a life even in defense of her own. I realize that most here including me don't endorse LTL defense methods, but I know she won't change her mind.
 

thebigsd

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Well, you could get her some pepper spray or the Kimber Pepper Blaster. You may also want to look into the various tasers on the market. Is she open to using these kind of things?

I get that she doesn't want to take a life in order to save her own. I don't agree but I get it. That being said something to defend yourself with (even LTL) is better than nothing.

You could also try to convince her to take some self-defense classes, it may open her eyes a little. Good luck!
 
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Large Caliber Kick

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Tess

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I'm looking for an effective, less than lethal, method of defense for my mother who refuses to use lethal methods to defend her life because she believes she will go to hell for taking a life even in defense of her own. I realize that most here including me don't endorse LTL defense methods, but I know she won't change her mind.

I'd go with the taser option. As powerful as she's willing to use. She needs practice, too, just as firearms owners do.

I've been told pepper spray is almost useless against anyone who has a lot of pepper in their diets. The police here specifically mentioned mexican peppers and thai peppers - he said people who eat a lot of them are almost immune. And though I've never used pepper spray, people who have tell me it is difficult to keep it from your own hands and eyes.

(We visit Catawba a lot.)
 
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skidmark

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The question I want answered before I make any recommendations/suggestions is this: Is your mother willing to imflict any level of pain on an attacker, let alone cause a permanent damaging and probably disfiguring injury? (2-part question, so a 2-part answer expected)

If mom's non-violence/pacifism extends to not actually injuring another, then she probably should not carry anything as her reluctance to use it may in fact mean it will be taken away from her and could be turned against her.

We who carry firearms for self defense must understand that using them may result in the intentional death of another human being and in spite of that be willing to use the firearm as it was designed and intended to be used. It's not an easy question to answer when sitting at the keyboardand an even more difficult one to answer in the heat and immediacy of a self defense event. But without the mental/emotional/moral/ethical preparation ahead of time you are going to wind up even further behind the reaction curve than if you have pretty well sorted out all the internal debating points beforehand.

So - where's mom on the whole idea of doing everything short of actually killing someone in order to defend herself?

stay safe.
 

silver

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have you tried explaing what a violent attacker will do to her with no regard to going to hell int he first place?
 

Ruby

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I totally agree with Skid. If you carry a lethal weapon, you had better have everything sorted out beforehand about taking another human being's life. Every person has to recognize that and deal with it, one way or another. I don't agree with your mother's view, but I commend her for knowing her own mind and what she can and cannot do. That may change in time.

The crux of the problem is the commandment that " Thou shalt not kill." That actually is a misinterpretation or a mistake in translation. The correct interpretation that I have been told is it actually is "Thou shalt not commit murder." Self defense is NOT considered murder, it is self defense. There actually is a passage somewhere in the Old Testament that a man is considered derelict of his duty if he does not protect himself and his loved ones.


If you think about it, we kill all the time. We run over little living things and kill them with our vehicles, though it is not intentional. We, by proxy, if not actually, kill animals to eat, etc. Killing is part of life, always has been, and always will be. To me, murder is the wanton taking of life for no reason. Not so self defense. Every living thing, not just humans, does it's utmost to protect it's life. Self defense is part of our nature, murder generally is not, although we are all capable of it.

Just my 2 cent musings.
 

Large Caliber Kick

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Due to the fact that she has heard about the two people in the Charlotte, NC area who were killed by tasers she isn't willing to go that route. I've managed to talk her into a Taurus Judge loaded with rubber buckshot. The best part is, ...........she want's to OC!

Thank you all for your input, I think it definitely helped her come to a better informed decision.
 

Aaron1124

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I would start off by asking her, where, in her book of faith, does it suggest that it's a sin to take a life in self defense. Those who believe that, are generally misinterpreting "Thou Shalt Not Murder".
 

hermannr

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Hold on guys, the OP has not stated what flavor of religion his mom believes in. Before we can discuss this properly we need to know what religion she espouses. OP?
 

SouthernBoy

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It's incorrect to believe that the taking of life in defense of yourself is going to wind you up in hell. Even the Old Testament confirms this in a round about way with one of the Ten Commandments. Thou shalt not kill was actually Thou shalt not do murder (or Thou shalt not murder). Big difference.

Still, it is very hard to convince some folks otherwise. So perhaps the best possible pepper spray, or similar such product, may be her wisest choice under the circumstances.


BTW, I am certainly not a biblical scholar but I have heard this one argued.
 
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Sonora Rebel

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Luke 22:36 /22:38

He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

Luke 22:38; And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

"Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight," David writes in Psalms 144:1.

"If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him," we are told in Exodus 22:2. The next verse says, "If the sun be risen upon him, there shall be blood shed for him; for he should make full restitution; if he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft."
 

Haz.

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I come from a land downunder.
I'm looking for an effective, less than lethal, method of defense for my mother who refuses to use lethal methods to defend her life because she believes she will go to hell for taking a life even in defense of her own. I realize that most here including me don't endorse LTL defense methods, but I know she won't change her mind.

Hi L.K. Kick!

I take it your mother is a believer in God because she believes she will go to hell for taking a life even in defense of her own. Well how would she react if I can prove to her that God said she can, no must defend her life wherever and whenever she can?

When God instituted human government by law after Noah's flood, He gave Noah certain laws by which to govern the human race, and man was then held responsible for self-government (Gen. 9:1-7).

There are six very important laws which God gave Noah and his decendants. These Laws were:

(1) "Be fruitful and multply, and replenish the earth" (Gen. 9:1, 7).

(2) "Into thine hand are they [animals] delivered" (Gen. 9:2).

(3) "Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have i given you all things" (Gen. 9:4).

(4) "The blood thereof shall ye not eat" (Gen. 9:4).

(5) "WHOSOEVER SHEDDETH MAN'S BLOOD, BY MAN SHALL HIS BLOOD BY SHED: for in the image of God made he him" (Gen. 9:5-6).

And last but not least;
(6) "I have established my covenant with you . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . FOR PERPETUAL GENERATIONS . . . the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the "EVERLASTING COVENANT" between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth" (Gen. 9:8-17).

These few laws have been the basis of all laws of God and man in every age since the flood of Noah.
It was at this time God constituted capital punishment, and God has never revoked this particular law, "Whosoever sheddeth man's blood, BY MAN shall HIS BLOOD BE SHED (Gen. 9:5-6)." This law will continue as an eternal law, and as is revealed in (Isiah 11:4-9; 65:20-25) it will be in force even during the Millennium.

That this law will be in force during the Millennium is plainly reaffirmed in (Rom. 13:1-6), in which the apostle Paul taught that even in this age of grace, law-enforcement officers are ordained of God, and that they are His ministers to bear "not the sword in vain" but that they are supposed to "execute wrath upon him that doeth evil."

It is totally necessary for human governments to punish criminals according to the crimes committed. Human governments are part of the moral government of God. That God has instituted human governments to help Him secure this end is not only clear in Gen. 9 and Rom. 13, but also in many other passages (Dan. 2:21; 4:17-25; 5:21; 1 Pet. 2:13-14).

All administrators of human government, when they rule contrary to the law of God will be punished in due time by God for mismanagement of their authority. God never sanctions selfish and wicked administration of authority, and if such continues long it will be overthrown. Men are under obligation to obey human government when, and as long as the requirements are not inconsistent with the moral law's of God.

Can we, should we arm ourselves against criminals who seek to kill and destroy?

"A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring." (Proverbs 25:26).

"Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:" (Psalms 144:1).

Now if someone comes and breaks into your home and he is killed, then no blood shall be shed over him;

"If a thief be found breaking in, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him." (Exodus 22;2).

Get your mom a gun mate, teach her how to use it, and God will be pleased with her. She wont be going to Hell. God doesnt lie! "In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;" (Titus 1:2). Sleep easy good lady!

Haz.
 

Large Caliber Kick

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Hold on guys, the OP has not stated what flavor of religion his mom believes in. Before we can discuss this properly we need to know what religion she espouses. OP?

Eastern Orthodox.

Haz, thank you for all those scripture cites. I will have her review them in the morning and I know she will read them because she's always up for biblical discussion.
 

Large Caliber Kick

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Well, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

In her closed mind all those cites were spiritual statements and the right thing to do is to talk and preach your way out of a situation. :banghead: I'm doubting now that she will actually ever get any defensive tool for herself, and her pacifistic ways extent to disarming me inside the house. Since my S&W Sigma won't fit in my pocket, I'll have to add a Keltec to my collection. :cuss:

Thanks again for everyones effort, peace be with you all.
 

skidmark

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LCK,

It seems you have answered the question about where your mother's mind is on this subject. I'll add her to the list of folks I hope never find themselves in harm's way. Rubber bullets and pepper spray are only going to annoy someone intent on hurting her.

I encourage you to reconsider getting a pocket handgun for carry inside your mother's house. It is disrespectful to her and to yourself. A better solution would be to either move out if you don't have your own place already, or to explain to her why you will no longer visit her at her home. Show respect for her beliefs, and ask her to show respect for yours.

stay safe.
 

Haz.

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I come from a land downunder.
It may still help if you suggest to her this. When someone breaks in to rape kill or steal, asking God to interveen will be a waste of time during the event. It will be the same as asking God to provide food, shelter, transportation, and protection when he has already given her the very means to do so.

Chriust told the disciples to sell their cloaks and buy a sword. Why, why for self protection! "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." (Luke 22:36).

If that failes, suggest to her that defending ones self will not send her to Hell, because any Scriptural mention of hell are merely "spiritual statements."

haz.
 
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