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Talk about a BS detainment.

luv_jeeps

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 22, 2010
Messages
136
Location
Thornton, Colorado, USA
This really chaps my hide.

Cliff Notes:
Grandpa out walking with his bi-racial 5 year old grand daughter.
Initial brief encounter with Austin PD.
Decides to not give name to APD officer.
Goes on his way.
Gets surrounded by APD and cuffed.

Kind of a long read, but interesting as we discuss illegal detainments here on OCDO.
This is the second time this type of incident has happened to this particular individual.


http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.c...edBlitzEmail&utm_content=79553&utm_campaign=0
 

thebigsd

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
3,539
Location
Quarryville, PA
A disturbing story, but he gave bo indication that he intends to pursue. He also didn't mention pursuing the first encounter. Hopefully, he is taking the appropriate action to rectify the situation.
 

HandyHamlet

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
2,772
Location
Terra, Sol
Arresting a five year old by placing her in the back seat of a cop car and then interrogating her without an attorney or parent present? Seems to me the five year old just won an all expenses and tuition paid ride to the college of her choice.
 

Deanimator

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
2,085
Location
Rocky River, OH, U.S.A.
The "justification" for these sorts of things is usually liability of the perpetrators, but this is almost invariably an after the fact smokescreen.

If nothing happened to the cops who returned one of Jeffrey Dahmer's victims (who was a minor, visibly disoriented, and bleeding from the rectum) to his custody, it's pure BS in a case like this.

Similarly, you can be almost certain that nothing is going to happen to the 911 operator who bungled the call about the guy who blew himself and his two kids up last week either.
 

PALO

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
729
Location
Kent

the problem with stories like this is everybody, based on their biases, will naturally assume the veracity of the fact pattern if it reflects on their metanarrative.

iow, what we have here is claims. they may or may not be true and/or at least distorted.

furthermore, i can't speak to that state, but in this state, an officer could certainly question a 5 yr old in many circ's w/o a parent present. depends on whether they were a suspect, a witness, etc.
 

KBCraig

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,866
Location
Granite State of Mind
LOL -- when I saw the thread title, before I even opened the thread, it made me think of the very same story!

I have Grits for Breakfast in my RSS feed, so I saw it as soon as it was published.
 

georg jetson

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
2,416
Location
Slidell, Louisiana
the problem with stories like this is everybody, based on their biases, will naturally assume the veracity of the fact pattern if it reflects on their metanarrative.

iow, what we have here is claims. they may or may not be true and/or at least distorted.

furthermore, i can't speak to that state, but in this state, an officer could certainly question a 5 yr old in many circ's w/o a parent present. depends on whether they were a suspect, a witness, etc.

Hmmmm... Parent's rights... That's all I'm sayin'.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,688
Location
Whatcom County
the problem with stories like this is everybody, based on their biases, will naturally assume the veracity of the fact pattern if it reflects on their metanarrative.

iow, what we have here is claims. they may or may not be true and/or at least distorted.

furthermore, i can't speak to that state, but in this state, an officer could certainly question a 5 yr old in many circ's w/o a parent present. depends on whether they were a suspect, a witness, etc.

PALO, what department do you work for? You can PM me if you want.

From your posts I gather you are an LEO, or affiliated one way or the other, you bias on this story shows it too.

Even if the 'story teller' was exaggerating, what RAS exists for detainment at all? Was there a missing child report that fit the description of the youngster? Was the older gentleman in the "chi-mo" data base? Was the youngster crying and trying to get away? I am going to guess no on all accounts.

I am glad you joined the forum and welcome more officers to join if you are one. But just to let you know we might disagree on quite a bit. First is being suspicious of a civilians report over what officers say. Testilying is a major problem amongst LE and it's documented. So I will take the word over someone who doesn't have a history of criminal intent over an officers every time. I have personally read too many reports where the officers have massaged the truth and wording of what actually happened.

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Cops-who-lie-don-t-always-lose-jobs-1262936.php Since you are from Washington.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/181241.pdf Report published from Department of Justice.
 
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PALO

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
729
Location
Kent
PALO, what department do you work for? You can PM me if you want.

From your posts I gather you are an LEO, or affiliated one way or the other, you bias on this story shows it too.

Even if the 'story teller' was exaggerating, what RAS exists for detainment at all? Was there a missing child report that fit the description of the youngster? Was the older gentleman in the "chi-mo" data base? Was the youngster crying and trying to get away? I am going to guess no on all accounts.

I am glad you joined the forum and welcome more officers to join if you are one. But just to let you know we might disagree on quite a bit. First is being suspicious of a civilians report over what officers say. Testilying is a major problem amongst LE and it's documented. So I will take the word over someone who doesn't have a history of criminal intent over an officers every time. I have personally read too many reports where the officers have massaged the truth and wording of what actually happened.

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Cops-who-lie-don-t-always-lose-jobs-1262936.php Since you are from Washington.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/181241.pdf Report published from Department of Justice.


the point is, without knowing the facts and circumstances known to the officer (assuming arguendo the fact pattern as presented is true), one cannot know if the stop was justified or not

obviously, all sorts of assumptions are made about WHY the cops made the stop, but those are mere speculation.

as for what you have personally read, that's wonderful, but i have read a metric assload of reports where people either simply fabricate aspects of their report and/or conveniently leave salient details out and/.or understandably PERCEIVE something that may not be true, especially as to inference of intent and/or actually fabricate false allegations to help support whatever metanarrative floats their boat

the point is that obviously, neither the fact that the pair was of different races OR that a person was open carrying gives police any indicia of suspicion/ we can all agree on that. what is the issue is that AN inference is made that it was viewed thusly, which we have no way of knowing

i prefer to get outraged andor interested in stuff that i can actually have at least a reasonble belief is a credible account and where i have at least a reasonable belief i understand the fact pattern from all sides, not from an account that is probably myopic AT BEST
 

VW_Factor

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2010
Messages
1,098
Location
Leesburg, GA
Without knowing the facts?!

Are you ******* kidding me?

A man and a little girl walking home, is RAS for what? Under what circumstances could this be looked upon as RAS for detainment let alone a crime of any sort.

What sort of facts would think here to be fabbed, or left out that even for a second makes you think its ok to arrest/detain a man walking home with a child. Did he have kidnapper tattooed on his forehead or what?
 
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HandyHamlet

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
2,772
Location
Terra, Sol
the point is, without knowing the facts and circumstances known to the officer (assuming arguendo the fact pattern as presented is true), one cannot know if the stop was justified or not

Convenient how a few purposely continue to ignore the fact that the "storyteller" was stopped TWICE. Arrested AFTER it was already determined there was no kidnapping.
 

PALO

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
729
Location
Kent
Without knowing the facts?!

Are you ******* kidding me?

A man and a little girl walking home, is RAS for what? Under what circumstances could this be looked upon as RAS for detainment let alone a crime of any sort.

What sort of facts would think here to be fabbed, or left out that even for a second makes you think its ok to arrest/detain a man walking home with a child. Did he have kidnapper tattooed on his forehead or what?

again, you don't know the facts and circumstances

i was pulled over at gunpoint and proned out on the sidewalk driving home once

why?

because i was a minority?

because i was unshaven?

because i had a political sticker on my van?

i could make all sorts of inferences like that

once i learned that the cops had RS for me as an armed robbery suspect, though, THEN i got it

again, unless we have a bit more to go on, there is no way to rationally believe that the stop was or wasn't justified.

bald speculation is nice, but it's frequently wrong, and i prefer to operate from knowledge not ignorance

ymmv
 

jbone

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,233
Location
WA
The facts seem clear enough, and the story could have been less.... what's the word I'm looking for here?

The acts of the department were so very wrong. But, I wonder will this wonderfully written published story be what the person (s), if, suing/sued remember when taking the stand. Will the creative emotional version speak at the stand, too others, or will the basic facts/information be given.

 

jbone

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,233
Location
WA
The facts seem clear enough, and the story could have been less....

It just hit me; it wasn't a word after all, it was if I was reading from the pages of Reader's Digest. I'm going to say the author/storyteller did not pursue anything more than places to publish.
 
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