The final VOTE in Maplewood!

[zekester]

Not that it mattesr at this point..

I really was planning to go as some of you know...just so you know I was not un-prepared....excuse the fact that it is in all caps...but it was the only way I could read it.

RICHARD LEE CLAVERIE

ANTHONY JOSEPH GALLINA

ROBERT JOSEPH GOEDDE

　

THESE NAMES, MOST LIKELY MEAN NOTHING TO YOU.



THE FACT THAT THESE NAMES MEAN NOTHING TO YOU, IS EXACLTY WHY YOU SHOULD CONSIDER NOT PASSING THE STAUTE BEFORE YOU.



THESE NAMES, ALONG WITH OVER 20,000 MEN AND WOMEN IN THE STATE OF MISSOURI HAVE SACRIFICED THEIR LIVES , TO PROTECT THE CONSTITUTION OF MISSOURI AND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES, NOT AS YOU SEE FIT, BUT HOW IT WAS WRITTEN IN THE FIRST PLACE.



TODAY, YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SHOW THOSE THAT HAVE SACRIFICED SO MUCH , TO PROTECT THESE RIGHTS, WAS NOT IN VAIN.



WHO ARE,



RICHARD LEE CLAVERIE

ANTHONY JOSEPH GALLINA

ROBERT JOSEPH GOEDDE



THEY ARE PATRIOTS FROM MAPLEWOOD THAT GAVE THEIR LIVES TO PROTECT THE CONSTITUTION WHILE SERVING IN VIETNAM.



I MUST ASK YOU…ARE YOU WILLING TO GIVE YOUR LIFE TO PROTECT WHAT IS SO SACRED TO ALL THE CITIZENS OF MISSOURI, AS OVER 20,000 HAVE ALREADY DONE?



I IMPLORE YOU NOT TO LET OVER 20,000 BRAVE CITIZENS OF MISSOURI, WHICH SACRIFICED THEIR LIVES AND UNTOLD VETERANS, THAT HAVE SURVIVED, BE TOLD THAT IN MAPLEWOOD, EVeRYTHING THAT YOU FOUGHT FOR AND DIED FOR IS AN AFTERTHOUGHT.



I ASK YOU NOT TO PASS THIS STATUE, IF FOR ANYTHING ELSE, TO HONOR THOSE BEFORE YOU, THAT HAVE GIVEN SO MUCH, JUST SO THAT YOU EVEN HAVE THE OPPORTUNTY TO VOTE ON THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

 

[lancers]

I think he meant that was the way it was before they passed the ban.

I really like how they described you in the justification for the ban.
Do you have your gun back?

Yeah, I just meant because they did detain me and took my ID even though the mayor says they couldn't do that before.

No, I didn't get my gun back. I probably never will.

 

[zekester]

why

Unless I am missing something...they have no right to keep your weapon?

 

[lancers]

Unless I am missing something...they have no right to keep your weapon?

They don't have a reason just like they don't have a reason for not following the sunshine law. It took them all of one day to get Fox 2 that jail video. Days to print off the arrest report for me? 16 days and counting...

So they wanna play, we are going to play. They are seriously underestimating my determination when people &#@! with me.

 

[LMTD]

If you would have hired a lawyer it would all be over already.

 

[afcarry]

So they wanna play, we are going to play. They are seriously underestimating my determination when people &#@! with me.

Dude, chill out. What happened, happened and thats all there is to it.. There's no need to cause more trouble and bring more negative attention to the movement. Doc and others seem to remember that you are part of a group, so present yourself as an adult, and do it respectfully. Griping moaning about how you think your rights were violated does nobody any good, and thats just a fact. Looking on the Missouri OC discussion board all I see for a page and a half is about Maplewood. Look at the new ordinance you took pictures of. You caused it. Now nobody can OC in Maplewood, and you seem to want to keep on about it.

 

[lancers]

If you would have hired a lawyer it would all be over already.

Doubtful. They are going to do whatever they want, lawyer or not. What could a lawyer have done?

 

[xc9subcompact]

Let's recap what happened to him.
1. Taken into custody on a false belief that he either:

a: can't open carry, or;​

b: needed a permit to open carry.​

2. Placed into jail on a falsely sworn warrant.
3. Required to post a bond on a false warrant in order to regain his freedom.
4. Had his gun taken away where there was no crime committed.
5. Had his reputation besmirched by the Maplewood Police Department in conjunction with FOX2 STL.
6. Still hasn't received his gun back.
7. Has had his gun "tested" for possible use in other crimes, even when there was no probable cause to beleive that it had been used in any crime in the first place.

There are several constitutional rights that have been violated. He should just let it go? What message does that send to the police for their future actions?
You are fine with what Maplewood did? How will you feel when it happens to you?

 

[lancers]

Dude, chill out. What happened, happened and thats all there is to it.. There's no need to cause more trouble and bring more negative attention to the movement. Doc and others seem to remember that you are part of a group, so present yourself as an adult, and do it respectfully. Griping moaning about how you think your rights were violated does nobody any good, and thats just a fact. Looking on the Missouri OC discussion board all I see for a page and a half is about Mapelwood. Look at the new ordinance you took pictures of. You caused it. Now nobody can OC in Mapelwood, and you seem to want to keep on about it.

This has nothing do with with the movement of OC anymore. This is about one city thinking they can do whatever they want to the public regardless of law.

I didn't cause that ordinance to be drafted. Just look at the comments from the city manager. He said talk about open carry during their coffee event cause it. Even if it was "me", that could have been anyone that open carried. You act like I personally caused this ordinance because I open carried and a child and her parents stood BEHIND me in line.

 

[cshoff]

Dude, chill out. What happened, happened and thats all there is to it.. There's no need to cause more trouble and bring more negative attention to the movement. Doc and others seem to remember that you are part of a group, so present yourself as an adult, and do it respectfully. Griping moaning about how you think your rights were violated does nobody any good, and thats just a fact. Looking on the Missouri OC discussion board all I see for a page and a half is about Mapelwood. Look at the new ordinance you took pictures of. You caused it. Now nobody can OC in Mapelwood, and you seem to want to keep on about it.

So because YOU are tired of hearing about it and/or reading about it, this person should just forget about the fact that he feels his rights were violated?

 

[xc9subcompact]

I feel like this was going to happen eventually.
I would like to hear from someone as to how they think the situation would have turned out differently if it were them open carrying in Maplewood, in the Walmart. And in the reply, I hope the responder will consider all of the facts leading up to the handcuffs and placement in the back of the police car.
Does anyone think that the city would have reacted differently? If so, why?

 

[afcarry]

This has nothing do with with the movement of OC anymore. This is about one city thinking they can do whatever they want to the public regardless of law.

This has everything to do with the OC movement. You represented it poorly and now it is are permanently associated with you. You didnt disagree with http://maplewood-brentwood.patch.co...il-votes-to-ban-open-carry-after-gun-incident when you simply said:

I know I will get blamed for this, but regardless of my idiotic comments after arrest, this was going to happen just because someone open carried there.

"Whereas a recent episode occurred in the City of Maplewood in which a person openly carried and displayed a loaded firearm in a crowded retail establishment, in close proximity to young children and families, thereby causing an immediate disruption to the peace, security, morals and welfare of the patrons and employees of such retail establishment as well and the members of the public in and around the shopping area in which such retail establishment was located; and......"

Passed April 12 2011, your incident took place less than a month earlier. They are describing that event. You are one of the many faces of a group that pushes for one cause, and whether or not you were detained illegally, warrant or not, gun retained, car washed or any other circumstance, you opened your mouth and made us all look like shooting cops is "whatever." Thats okay to you? Thats what we try to tell people? Just because you had a warrant so they detained you and you say they didnt have RAS (which they did, btw) your going to throw a fit about paperwork not being filed yet?

 

[afcarry]

So because YOU are tired of hearing about it and/or reading about it, this person should just forget about the fact that he feels his rights were violated?

Not at all, if he thinks his rights were violated, okay. Cool. Pursue it with a lawyer like LMTD said. But anyone who's attention is drawn to this PUBLIC FORUM by his news stories, everyones speeches, the cards we hand out, and by meeting people and presenting a professional image is just going to see whining and persistent discontentment here because something didn't turn out in a Utopian fashion and all we are doing is complaining. Sounds kinda similar to High School, maybe?

 

[cshoff]

Not at all, if he thinks his rights were violated, okay, I guess. Cool. Pursue it with a lawyer like LMTD said. But anyone who's attention is drawn to this PUBLIC FORUM by his news stories and everyones speeched, and the cards we hand out is just going to see whining and persistent discontentment because something didn't turn out in a Utopian fashion.

You and everyone else will just have to realize that his rights being violated is a completely separate issue from anything else. It doesn't matter what he said or did leading up to (or after) his rights being violated, what matters is that (according to him) they were. If OC advocates can't or won't stand up in support of ANYONE who's rights have been violated, whether we like them or agree with them or not, then those advocates are hypocrites.

Until the owners/administrators of this site decide that speech that isn't specific to OC is no longer allowed, I don't see where anyone has the right to tell lancers what he can or can't post here.

 

[lancers]

So because YOU are tired of hearing about it and/or reading about it, this person should just forget about the fact that he feels his rights were violated?

I think he would feel differently if he was peacefully standing in checkout line at a huge retail store on a busy Saturday afternoon and the police dragged him out of line in front of everyone, handcuffed him, and put in a police car.

 

[afcarry]

You and everyone else will just have to realize that his rights being violated is a completely separate issue from anything else. It doesn't matter what he said or did leading up to (or after) his rights being violated, what matters is that (according to him) they were. If OC advocates can't or won't stand up in support of ANYONE who's rights have been violated, whether we like them or agree with them or not, then those advocates are hypocrites.

Until the owners/administrators of this site decide that speech that isn't specific to OC is no longer allowed, I don't see where anyone has the right to tell lancers what he can or can't post here.

Who told him he cant post here? I didn't. I told him hes making the situation worse by not acting like an adult, thats not telling him he not allowed to talk. Good on you for acknowledging that its all according to him. Everything is hearsay, thats not debatable. We are forced to take two people's words, the cops, and his. Thats wherein the problem lies, we are forced to take their word. All I see is that he keeps wanting to push the cops, blame them for everything and play a victim. The guy who's in trouble says hes a victim in order to get support. I have no problem supporting people when their rights are undoubtedly violated, but its clear here that there is some serious question as to whether or not they were. So him going on and on is pointless. He does have the right to do it, I can appreciate that, but I don't think hes making every effort to help the image of the group, which as I understand it, is one of our main goals.

I think he would feel differently if he was peacefully standing in checkout line at a huge retail store on a busy Saturday afternoon and the police dragged him out of line in front of everyone, handcuffed him, and put in a police car.

Point proven

 

[stled]

What he said!

You and everyone else will just have to realize that his rights being violated is a completely separate issue from anything else. It doesn't matter what he said or did leading up to (or after) his rights being violated, what matters is that (according to him) they were. If OC advocates can't or won't stand up in support of ANYONE who's rights have been violated, whether we like them or agree with them or not, then those advocates are hypocrites.

Until the owners/administrators of this site decide that speech that isn't specific to OC is no longer allowed, I don't see where anyone has the right to tell lancers what he can or can't post here.

Let's see, Lancers was in a place it was it was legal for him to be, doing what was legal for him to do, and you want to blame him when he is illegally detained by a Maplewood Police Officer?

How does that Quote go?

They came for him and I was not him
So I said nothing

This needs to be nipped in the bud.

 

[xc9subcompact]

That's just it.
As I have asked before, is there some unwritten rule that says "Don't OC in Walmart in Maplewood"
And "Don't OC where there are other people including children"?
WalMart policy is for customers to abide by local law.
Local law was that it was legal.
This is kinda ex-post-facto, isn't it?

 

[afcarry]

Let's see, Lancers was in a place it was it was legal for him to be, doing what was legal for him to do, and you want to blame him when he is illegally detained by a Maplewood Police Officer?

How does that Quote go?

They came for him and I was not him
So I said nothing

This needs to be nipped in the bud.

So lets play with this. If you were having a jolly ol' time in the Wal-mart with Lancers when it happened, what are you all going to do in support? Argue with the cop? Start a tug-of-war with Lancers? Good idea. They pulled him for a reason, and theres nothing you could do for him then. You weren't there, I wasn't there. Hes begging for support because hes upset. You are all feeding him.

 

[lancers]

This has everything to do with the OC movement. You represented it poorly and now it is are permanently associated with you. You didnt disagree with http://maplewood-brentwood.patch.co...il-votes-to-ban-open-carry-after-gun-incident when you simply said:



"Whereas a recent episode occurred in the City of Maplewood in which a person openly carried and displayed a loaded firearm in a crowded retail establishment, in close proximity to young children and families, thereby causing an immediate disruption to the peace, security, morals and welfare of the patrons and employees of such retail establishment as well and the members of the public in and around the shopping area in which such retail establishment was located; and......"

Passed April 12 2011, your incident took place less than a month earlier. They are describing that event. You are one of the many faces of a group that pushes for one cause, and whether or not you were detained illegally, warrant or not, gun retained, car washed or any other circumstance, you opened your mouth and made us all look like shooting cops is "whatever." Thats okay to you? Thats what we try to tell people? Just because you had a warrant so they detained you and you say they didnt have RAS (which they did, btw) your going to throw a fit about paperwork not being filed yet?

Guess what? That would read the exact same if you had been there that day. It could have been me, you, Doc, anyone.

And more surprising about all of their lack of knowledge- I emailed the police chief 2 years ago about OC. He forwarded it to a Lt. that is still on the force. He tried telling me open carry was illegal and pointed to the statute that made it illegal to carry in city owned buildings. When I pointed out to him that was only city buildings, he told me to contact an attorney and he forwarded the conversation to the city's law firm. They had plenty of chance to understand the issue. They chose not to even when I offered up a recording of their city manager saying I could open carry in Maplewood. They did not stop there. They are now failing to follow the law once again with the sunshine requests and keeping my gun. That type of incompetence in an agency that has the authority to take away your freedom should scare you.