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The time for action is NOW!

oak1971

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
1,937
Location
Wisconsin, USA
Short answer is we know Wisconsin and how it's government works. Give them an inch, they will take a mile.

Call me paranoid but let's just assume the best case scenario that you outlined.

1. 941.23 get repealed in 2011.
2. Your 'free', no training license bill gets passed either later in 2011 or 2012.

Here's what will happen because this is WI.

The legislature will get pestered by liberals and local communities because of an unfunded mandate. The legislature will raise the rate and then discover that there aren't enough people getting the permit to actually pay for the bureaucracy, so, they will make it mandatory so that they have a mass of permits that will.
Bingo.
 

Gray Peterson

Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
2,236
Location
Lynnwood, Washington, USA
The legislature will get pestered by liberals and local communities because of an unfunded mandate. The legislature will raise the rate and then discover that there aren't enough people getting the permit to actually pay for the bureaucracy, so, they will make it mandatory so that they have a mass of permits that will.
If the Legislature is that squishy then what you accomplished with a repealer bill will be in true danger regardless of what is passed afterwards.

You folks fought for almost 15 years for a carry law of some kind, and now you have the best chance ever in American history to pass a full on concealed carry ban repeal. If your Legislature is so strongly pro-gun now (with a good governor), what makes you think that they will take a step back and put back in a carry ban, especially after a state court has already declared the carry ban unconstitutional?

The "liberals" (even though there are liberals who are very strongly pro-RKBA and there are some conservatives who are anti-gun and anti-carry) have been completely slaughtered electorally in the state government. They lost both the Legislature and the Governor's office and will likely not be able to regain it for years. However, this is not a time to rest on one's laurels. Minnesota anti-gunners thought that they were able to get rid of "shall-issue" with a bad court ruling and they thought their "friends" would block re-passage in 2005. They didn't do that, because the Minnesota civil rights groups spoke up with one voice and said "Hell no, we're not going away, may-issue must hit the hay". They re-passed it, and it is not in serious danger. In fact, depending on who's Governor, there will likely be a serious attempt to go "constitution carry" in the next 3 years there.

I've been to Wisconsin, I have friends of mine in Wisconsin, family in Wisconsin. Wisconsin is not Illinois. If you're going to be paranoid about something, be paranoid for the right reason: Get the repealer bill passed, and hold it for the long hall from attacks by 24 percent of the voting population.
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
what makes you think that they will take a step back and put back in a carry ban, especially after a state court has already declared the carry ban unconstitutional.
To be technical, the supreme court has ruled THIS cc bill unconstitutional. They said that a bill that allows some sort of cc needs to be allowed.

Believe what you want but once again there is no way we will get a 'free' permit that meets the reciprocity agreements you purport. As Doug gave as an example, SC will only approve other state resident permits that meet or exceed their requirements. If there are 5 states like this (I haven't looked), the bill would have to have a superset of all 5 of those states requirements. Good luck!

The ball is rolling towards more and more states doing Constitutional Carry. AZ, AK and VT already have, UT is considering it (very likely) in 2011, MN will do it if WI does it. Once that happens, MI ain't far behind.
 
Last edited:

apjonas

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Messages
1,159
Location
, ,
As stated

Imaginative legislating would be required. However a license granted by Wisconsin based upon the possession of a say, Florida CCW is still a license granted/issued by Wisconsin. A license is permission to do something that is otherwise prohibited. It does not require a piece of paper or plastic. It is intangible. For instance, if I give you permission to enter my property, you are a licensee (an invitee is also a licensee but is requested, implicitly or explicitly, to enter). I do not have to give you a physical manifestion for a license to exist. Think of a college degree. The degree is not the sheepskin (or whatever). That is just a representation of the degree (the status the college bestows upon you for doing certain things).
 

Have Gun - Will Carry

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2010
Messages
290
Location
Kenosha County, Wisconsin
I suggest we have a lobby day in Madison. I am relatively ignorant as to the inner workings of WI state government so I am going to ask some questions that may be dumb:

1. When do the new legislators get sworn in?
2. Assuming no emergency session, when is the 1st meeting?
3. Assuming an emergency session, when does that happen?

Would it be worthwhile having a march around the capital in the next couple of weeks with 'Repeal 941.23' signs and then go inside to talk to the legislators?

Thanks!
Hey Paul, since no one has answered this I'll jump in. According to the Blue Book,

"Members of each new legislature convene in the State Capitol at 2 p.m. on the first Monday in January of each odd-numbered year to take the oath of office, select officers, and organize for business. The initial meeting occurs on January 3 if the first Monday falls on January 1 or 2."

The first Monday of 2011 happens to fall on the 3rd. As I'm sure you've heard, Walker said he would call an emergency session if he was elected - so I'd bet he will do so, but no idea when that will happen. If he doesn't for some reason, then my guess is Jan. 17, because the last legislative session began its floorperiods on Jan. 13, 2009 and Jan. 19, 2010.

As for organizing a lobby day, I think that's a great idea. For the last 2 years ABATE of Wisconsin has brought over 500 people to the Capitol for our annual Lobby Day to petition our legislators for motorcyclists' rights and safety, and it's been very successful:

llobbyday2010-1_fs.jpg IMG_1753-2.jpg

In part because of our presence there, our lawmakers all know that bikers are a force to be reckoned with, and they know many of us by name because we're in their offices at least once a year, if not several times.

So I feel that for WCI and all OC advocates to march peacefully around the capital with repeal signs and then go talk to the legislators (wearing empty holsters, maybe?), would likely be very effective. Assuming they're in Madison when it takes place, that is. When they see with their own eyes the support that a 941.23 repeal has, they'll take it seriously. The hard part, then, is getting enough people there at one time.
 

Mugenlude

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
367
Location
Racine, WI
Only "no-permit carry" was in the GOP plank, let's get it done!
Well, here is the political reality, "no-permit carry" IS IN the GOP plank. These same "political reality" people would have told you getting "no permit" in the plank was not possible either. It is time for the nay-sayers to stop with the "political reality" BS. The reality is, we did already did it! "no-permit" is in the plank and we CAN vote them out!
First off, I'm all for Constitutional Carry... problem is I can't find anything from the GOP that confirms what you are stating. Can you provide a link to something else besides that summary posted on WCI? The Platform & Resolutions on the WI GOP website has not been changed to what is indicated on the WCI summary.

I want to something solid that I can provide to my legislator to get their support, a 3rd Party summary isn't it. Can you help me out?

Thanks.
 

J.Gleason

Banned
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
3,481
Location
Chilton, Wisconsin, USA
Agreed wholehearted. Watch out from your right flank, though. Corey Graff at Wisconsin Gun Owners will accuse you of selling out if you settle for anything less than constitutional carry. Would be good, if he does, to point out that your organization filed several lawsuits against bad OC stops and the gun free school zones act whereas WiGO did....what again?
Corey Graf and his 1 man organization are a year late and 20,000 members short.
If yo notice on the WGO website, everything that is posted is copy and pasted from other sites. No, this is not bashing. It is the truth. All of the news on the WGO site is old news. Hence the intials WGO AKA WJO Wagon Jumpers Organization. Graff has no clout and no credibility.
 

J.Gleason

Banned
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
3,481
Location
Chilton, Wisconsin, USA
To be technical, the supreme court has ruled THIS cc bill unconstitutional. They said that a bill that allows some sort of cc needs to be allowed.

Believe what you want but once again there is no way we will get a 'free' permit that meets the reciprocity agreements you purport. As Doug gave as an example, SC will only approve other state resident permits that meet or exceed their requirements. If there are 5 states like this (I haven't looked), the bill would have to have a superset of all 5 of those states requirements. Good luck!

The ball is rolling towards more and more states doing Constitutional Carry. AZ, AK and VT already have, UT is considering it (very likely) in 2011, MN will do it if WI does it. Once that happens, MI ain't far behind.
Not sure this is true.
If, in the next Presidential election there is a national referendum for reciprocity then guess what?
 

Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
1,197
Location
, ,
I asked Graf with whom I might be associating by subscribing WGO and met a stone wall. I dug deeper and wound up on Dudley Brown's desk shiite list when he informed me that Corey Graf depends on his lobbying compensation from his PAC for his livelihood

Thus, the stench of lucre brings the wannabe-leaders from under their rocks. WCI included.
Doug, stop spewing your garbage.

WCI is 100% volunteer.

We don't get ONE red cent for the work we do.

Don't associate us with people who use the gun rights movement to support themselves.

Your incessant sniping of WCI is pathetic.

You are anti-establishment. We get it. You prefer the internet where those with HOURS and HOURS of free time can post 10's of THOUSANDS of posts to make sure THEIR voice is the loudest.

That's fine, we all get it Doug. Stop making false claims about WCI.
 

Viper

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
143
Location
Just outside Madistan
Wis GOP Website

First off, I'm all for Constitutional Carry... problem is I can't find anything from the GOP that confirms what you are stating. Can you provide a link to something else besides that summary posted on WCI? The Platform & Resolutions on the WI GOP website has not been changed to what is indicated on the WCI summary.

I want to something solid that I can provide to my legislator to get their support, a 3rd Party summary isn't it. Can you help me out?

Thanks.
I found this on the Wisconsin GOP website at: http://www.wisgop.org/site/c.rtJUJ4MNIqE/b.6061581/k.6E49/Platform__Resolutions.htm



CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS

The Republican Party of Wisconsin is a vigilant supporter of the right of individuals to keep and bear arms embodied in both the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States and Article I, Section 25, of the Wisconsin Constitution.

We therefore oppose all efforts to restrict the ownership, manufacture, transfer, carry, or sale of firearms by law-abiding citizens. We further oppose all efforts to require registration of firearms in the possession of law abiding citizens, as well as efforts to bankrupt firearms manufacturers through frivolous, unethical lawsuits.

Instead, we call for proper enforcement of the many existing laws against those who commit crimes. For safety’s sake, we encourage voluntary training in the use of firearms. We cannot ignore the clear lessons of history regarding the tyranny and suffering which can fall upon a disarmed and vulnerable people.
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
Not sure this is true.
If, in the next Presidential election there is a national referendum for reciprocity then guess what?
That would be true, however, if it were worded properly like, 'if it is legal for the person to carry in their home state, then all states shall allow them to carry', then a permit would not be required.
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
I found this on the Wisconsin GOP website at: http://www.wisgop.org/site/c.rtJUJ4MNIqE/b.6061581/k.6E49/Platform__Resolutions.htm



CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS

The Republican Party of Wisconsin is a vigilant supporter of the right of individuals to keep and bear arms embodied in both the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States and Article I, Section 25, of the Wisconsin Constitution.

We therefore oppose all efforts to restrict the ownership, manufacture, transfer, carry, or sale of firearms by law-abiding citizens. We further oppose all efforts to require registration of firearms in the possession of law abiding citizens, as well as efforts to bankrupt firearms manufacturers through frivolous, unethical lawsuits.

Instead, we call for proper enforcement of the many existing laws against those who commit crimes. For safety’s sake, we encourage voluntary training in the use of firearms. We cannot ignore the clear lessons of history regarding the tyranny and suffering which can fall upon a disarmed and vulnerable people.
You are correct, however, further down it says they endorse permitted carry. People are working on figuring out what happened between the meeting that voted those words out and the publishing on the site.

Stay tuned.
 

J.Gleason

Banned
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
3,481
Location
Chilton, Wisconsin, USA
Hey Paul, since no one has answered this I'll jump in. According to the Blue Book,

"Members of each new legislature convene in the State Capitol at 2 p.m. on the first Monday in January of each odd-numbered year to take the oath of office, select officers, and organize for business. The initial meeting occurs on January 3 if the first Monday falls on January 1 or 2."

The first Monday of 2011 happens to fall on the 3rd. As I'm sure you've heard, Walker said he would call an emergency session if he was elected - so I'd bet he will do so, but no idea when that will happen. If he doesn't for some reason, then my guess is Jan. 17, because the last legislative session began its floorperiods on Jan. 13, 2009 and Jan. 19, 2010.

As for organizing a lobby day, I think that's a great idea. For the last 2 years ABATE of Wisconsin has brought over 500 people to the Capitol for our annual Lobby Day to petition our legislators for motorcyclists' rights and safety, and it's been very successful:

lView attachment 4442 View attachment 4441

In part because of our presence there, our lawmakers all know that bikers are a force to be reckoned with, and they know many of us by name because we're in their offices at least once a year, if not several times.

So I feel that for WCI and all OC advocates to march peacefully around the capital with repeal signs and then go talk to the legislators (wearing empty holsters, maybe?), would likely be very effective. Assuming they're in Madison when it takes place, that is. When they see with their own eyes the support that a 941.23 repeal has, they'll take it seriously. The hard part, then, is getting enough people there at one time.
Interesting question, Has ABATE ever stood up for the motorcyclist's right to carry?
Just curious. Maybe this could bring the likes of WCI and Abate together to work together on this and increase the numbers. Just a thought.
 

J.Gleason

Banned
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
3,481
Location
Chilton, Wisconsin, USA
First off, I'm all for Constitutional Carry... problem is I can't find anything from the GOP that confirms what you are stating. Can you provide a link to something else besides that summary posted on WCI? The Platform & Resolutions on the WI GOP website has not been changed to what is indicated on the WCI summary.

I want to something solid that I can provide to my legislator to get their support, a 3rd Party summary isn't it. Can you help me out?

Thanks.
Here you go, This is information from the GOP Convention:
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=htt...2ndAmendment_in_thePoliticalArena.pdf&h=f43d5

From WISGOP.org:

"We oppose efforts to restrict the ownership, manufacture, carry, or sale of firearms by law-abiding citizens. "

Permits are restrictions.
 

FMJ45

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2010
Messages
35
Location
Up Nort
What I know is this. It is all about numbers to politicians, no matter how big a halo they claim to have hovering over their inflated egos...

The more of us that Write, Speak and Do, The more chance we have of our wishes being fulfilled. Don't leave it to the other guy. Do it yourself. I do.

If it is hard for you, ask a friend to help.

If we had a political action sticky with form letters that just need to be signed or modified or added to as we wish, that would be a great help.

Those who can do, should take a lead without being asked and set up an easy way for everyone to participate. Don't put it all on WCIs shoulders either. Let's all pitch in and help get this done. Let's help each other.

Remember, the easier it is for the membership to do a thing the more chance there is for a thing to be done.

JMHO.

Hardballer out.
Petitions are a good way to go.
 

comp45acp

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2006
Messages
383
Location
Watertown, WI, ,
Same as what happened to the County Board petition collection? Hijacked by special financial interests.
Doug, you have no idea what you are talking about on this issue. You weren't there, you had nothing to do with it whatever. You think sitting up there on an island and pounding out rubbish on your keyboard is how things get done.
Pathetic.
 

J.Gleason

Banned
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
3,481
Location
Chilton, Wisconsin, USA
I am not saying petitions are not a good idea, I am saying that we do not have time for a petition. It could take a couple of years to get enough signatures to make an impact. Do we want to wait that long?
We need to get that repeal in front of Walker as soon as he takes office. That is what we need to focus on.
The first step is finding a legislator that will bring it forward NOW to get the ball rolling. That way it will be ready when Walker takes office.
 
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