Unwelcome Visitors On My Property

[gis]

You sound like a real *******. Just a polite "call me next time so I don't think you are strangers" would have been sufficient. It is possible to be fully within your rights and simultaneously a dick.

How would you suggest they call me. They don't have my phone number. Remember, I don't know these people.

 

[gis]

Keep in mind you do not have the right to use deadly force against simple trespass. You may only use the minimum force needed to remove the trespasser. Anything over that will make you liable to prosecution. You have the obligation to prove fear of death or grievous bodily harm before you can use a deadly weapon. Against women and children, a jury will hang you out to dry with even the remote threat of deadly force against simple trespass.

Who said anything about dealy force, or any force all? I found it strange to see these people looking like they are taking a walk in a public park. I wanted them gone and also wanted to make sure they do not come back. There was no threat and no force.

 

[zoom6zoom]

I've found peppercorns work better on hunting dogs. Gives a better pattern with the same result.

Just don't get charged with assault and pepper!

 

[AdamC]

Just don't get charged with assault and pepper!

Worst pun I've read in a long time...

 

[Citizen]

Just don't get charged with assault and pepper!

Yes, it is a bad pun. But, those are the best kind! The time to worry is when your pun elicits no groans. Basically, you must inflict on your audience at least one punshot wound! Preferrably to the thread.

 

[Gunslinger]

Who said anything about dealy force, or any force all? I found it strange to see these people looking like they are taking a walk in a public park. I wanted them gone and also wanted to make sure they do not come back. There was no threat and no force.

In a court of law, the jury would have to interpret your "more severe (consequences)" statement, or did I misunderstand you? It is possible and likely that the reasonable man doctrine would infer greater force than you have the right to use as it would be against a woman. I don't question your assertion of your property rights. In fact, I agree with you, but question your threat of more severe response, mentioning firearms and dogs, next time.

 

[rlh2005]

In a court of law, the jury would have to interpret your "more severe (consequences)" statement

Why the jury have to interpret? In a court of law, GIS would have the opportunity to defend himself by saying the "more severely" meant future trespassing would result in their arrest and prosecution.

 

[happybucklander]

Reponse seems sane. If you weren't there why judge?

I'm pretty new here, but am surprised by those here that are IMO a bit quick to rush to judgement, anxious for others to leave, and generally argumentative. My first impressions aren't all that great, to be honest. Some posts come across as one-upmanship and "scoring points" and/or arrogance of self-righteousness and immaturity. I don't see people paying a lot of attention to the details, and investigating the facts and allowing others room to differ. Name-calling was what we did in elementary school, wasn't it? Doesn't it seem a little inappropriate here?

Certainly the first amendment applies as well as the second, so you can say what you want, but it seems like we might want to work on being more of a brotherhood/sisterhood here supporting OC and advancing the Second Amendment instead of putting folks on the defensive when they post or suggesting they leave when they aren't in accord with our mood and temperment.

I almost didn't post this as "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" came to mind, but I'm not attacking anyone in particular, just sharing my short-term reaction to what I'm reading and seeing in the hopes that some will reconsider when and how they post.

GIS sounds reasonable to me - patient and kind even. He's called names and doesn't respond in kind. Being assertive is ok when someone is rude and violating the law. He doesn't have to like everyone or please everyone, nor even try. It's a hopeless cause anyway. Informing a woman with kids that there are dogs and firearms that get discharged on his property is polite from where I come from.

Of course, who knows what that woman would have thought about when he mentioned future violations being handled "more severely"? "He's gonna shoot us" or "He's gonna set the dogs on us" or "He's going to press charges" (the next time) are all things that might run through her mind. It would be the height of arrogance for me to assume that I would really know. I'm not her, I don't know her, and I wasn't there.

I'm pretty sure he didn't report the conversation recorded ver-batim, and he left out some details.

Truth be known, I'm jealous of the size of his property, his pond and his security system. He must have been a frugal LEO!

 

[AdamC]

I'm pretty new here, but am surprised by those here that are IMO a bit quick to rush to judgement, anxious for others to leave, and generally argumentative. My first impressions aren't all that great, to be honest. Some posts come across as one-upmanship and "scoring points" and/or arrogance of self-righteousness and immaturity. I don't see people paying a lot of attention to the details, and investigating the facts and allowing others room to differ. Name-calling was what we did in elementary school, wasn't it? Doesn't it seem a little inappropriate here?

Welcome to the Internet. Prepare to be flamed.

Certainly the first amendment applies as well as the second, so you can say what you want, but it seems like we might want to work on being more of a brotherhood/sisterhood here supporting OC and advancing the Second Amendment instead of putting folks on the defensive when they post or suggesting they leave when they aren't in accord with our mood and temperment.

Let it start with you (and me). :monkey (Why a monkey? Why not!?)

 

[happybucklander]

Welcome to the Internet. Prepare to be flamed.

I'm NOT new to the Internet and I wear a fire-retardant suit. Flaming me doesn't really bother me, really. I just think we're better suited by recruiting folks at the fringes of the OC community and allowing them some slack.

Let it start with you (and me). :monkey (Why a monkey? Why not!?)

Ok brother. Let it begin.

 

[Gunslinger]

Why the jury have to interpret? In a court of law, GIS would have the opportunity to defend himself by saying the "more severely" meant future trespassing would result in their arrest and prosecution.

The jury always interprets. That's their job. And the reasonable man theory would decide what he meant, irrespective of what he says post facto.

 

[wrightme]

You should have walked out there naked except for your gunbelt and boots. Doubt they would have come back after that!

NOPE.

About 9 A.M. this morning one of my outside motion sensors went off. Everyone here has at least ten aceres, so houses are very far apart. Unlike the indoor sensors, the outside ones do not produce a loud audible alarm, just alert me on the console and my Blackberry. My wife and I were getting ready to get out of the house and the dogs were indoors due to the heat. I looked out the window and saw several figures in the far corner of my property. The binoculars revealed two women with two kids (toddlers) apparently taking pictures. Since they were about 50 yards away from the Battlefield National Park fence, I assumed that they were park tourists. There are plenty of Private Property No Tresspassing signs that couldn't be missed.

That is a quick way to be labeled as a pedophile.

Who said anything about dealy force, or any force all? I found it strange to see these people looking like they are taking a walk in a public park. I wanted them gone and also wanted to make sure they do not come back. There was no threat and no force.

Yes there was.

After I made contact, I discovered that it was one of my neighbors (whom I had only met once before) and her kids' photographer who decided that they wanted to take pictures of the kids by my pond. They must have walked through the national park and snuck on my preperty from the back. I did not display a firearm, but was very stern and pointed out to the neighbor that her behavior endangered her entire party. I also pointed out that I have multiple levels of security including firearms, dogs and electronics, and that future violation of my property rights will be handled more severely. I was not specific. They left quickly without escalation and looked sufficiently shaken up. After calling another neighbor to share the story, I found out that this woman is, shall we say, a moron who does stupid unpredictable things going back 5-6 years. Well, long live Darwin!

Oh, and yes, the story is relevant, since weapons were carried, albeit concealed.

You tell them about firearms, dogs, and electronics, then "will be handled more severely."

If they choose, you have also publicly stated this to corroborate their possible police report.

 

[Glock9mmOldStyle]

I live just outside of Detroit MI. 10 Miles S.W. I have a very large lot for this area 5+ acres & people are always trespassing. I am always armed (CC) when I talk to them (for my protection). Its usually people walking dogs, flying kites, the occasional spontaneous picnic, driving golf balls etc...pretty harmless stuff most of the time. I find that making a 1st positive contact is the best way to go. I say "hi how are you?" I get "fine & you". I then say I'm okay, I just noticed you in my back yard & thought I'd say hi. They are usually shocked & say this is your back yard? Yep it is and you're welcome to hang out anytime all I ask is that if you see others littering or other nonsense please ask them to stop. I then tell them that I've had a couple of them prosecuted but I'll take all the help I can get in keeping the place safe & happy for all. This tact usually works without being threatening to them; & hey a couple of them I now consider friends.

 

[TFred]

... I then say I'm okay, I just noticed you in my back yard & thought I'd say hi. They are usually shocked & say this is your back yard? Yep it is and you're welcome to hang out anytime ...

This made me laugh... They certainly know it's not their back yard... what difference does it make whose it is, they should know they shouldn't be in it without permission!

TFred

 

[simmonsjoe]

... I find that making a 1st positive contact is the best way to go.

good job. way to be neighborly. [:clap]

 

[gis]

Truth be known, I'm jealous of the size of his property, his pond and his security system. He must have been a frugal LEO!

Not that frugal. I like to spend money on guns. Just takes a pension plus a post-retirement corporate job to pay the mortgage.

 

[gis]

NOPE.
That is a quick way to be labeled as a pedophile.


Yes there was.


You tell them about firearms, dogs, and electronics, then "will be handled more severely."

If they choose, you have also publicly stated this to corroborate their possible police report.

You must live in a different world, although I know that you do not. In your neck of the woods, especially out in the desert people handle things about the same way if not more assertively. I know since I am friends with many at the Washoe County Sheriff's Office as well as in surrounding counties through my prior LE activites.

What I did tell the trespassers also is that my wife wanted them arrested then and there, and I was doing them a favor by not calling the police. The female neighbor trespasser, as I found out later, already has multiple complaints filed against her, and all my other neighbors consider her weird and crazy.

Lastly, I believe that it is appropriate to warn someone that you expect may brake the law in the future that you are willing to protect your safety by appropriate means. I can tell you that if she trespasses one more time, she will be arrested, kids or no kids.

 

[wrightme]

You must live in a different world, although I know that you do not.

I live in the desert.

I also have a fenced property.

Your comments were over the top.

You were correct to inform her that she was trespassing, and that you had considered calling LE. The rest could definitely be considered threats.
If you can find a reference that allows threat of bodily harm for mere property trespass, then I will rethink my PoV.

 

[Wangmuf]

The binoculars revealed two women with two kids (toddlers) apparently taking pictures.

That is a quick way to be labeled as a pedophile.

Using binoculars to observe people from a distance on his property makes him a pedo, simply because there happened to be two children with the trespassing adults?

 

[gis]

I live in the desert.

I also have a fenced property.

Your comments were over the top.

You were correct to inform her that she was trespassing, and that you had considered calling LE. The rest could definitely be considered threats.
If you can find a reference that allows threat of bodily harm for mere property trespass, then I will rethink my PoV.

You are assuming facts not in evidence. It was simply a statement of fact that my property is well protected. No threat of bodily harm. In fact I said it with a smile on my face. People hear things the way they want to hear them, you included. When I was a cop, I always told the bad guy who was borderline going to jail that his fate was in his own hands. He could step back and we both go home, or he could continue whatever he was doing, go to jail, and I still go home at the end of my shift. I simply did not care, just did what needed to be done. It is my right to assert my rights under the law, and act in accordance with it if/when my rights are violated.

To be more specific, I was assertive, I informed her that she was trespassing (how she could have missed the No Trespassing and security company signs alternating every 30 feet I do not know), said that I did not care what she was doing there, informed her that the she needed to leave, said that if my wife was home alone, she and her party would already be under arrest by the local PD, informed her that the property is well protected, and that any further crimes on my property would be dealt with in accordance to the the law and level of threat, and that if she ever came back she would be arrested in front of her kids.

If anyone thinks that I acted like a jerk, I am perfectly fine with it. I am entitled on my property. I never mince words, especially with people who disrespect my rights.