URGENT ALERT: House Vote Coming Soon on CCW Reciprocity Bill

[John Canuck]

Here is someone's opinion on the matter.

http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-open-carry-121/35684-faq-interstate-transportation-firearms.html

Stops While Travelling

Courts have generally held that in order to be able to invoke this law as a defense the only stops allowed must be directly incidental to the trip. For example, in People v. Selyukov, 2008 NY Slip Op 28104, 2 (N.Y. J. Ct. 2008), a trial court held:

Fundamental to the defense is the firearm owner's actually engaging in travel, or acts incidental to travel, through the state of arrest, such as stopping for food or gasoline or picking up passengers or packages for the trip. Any pause in the journey must be directly incident to it.

The defense is generally lost if the firearm’s owner stops for any reasons not directly related to the immediate trip. (for example see State v Baker, 639 SW2d 617 [Mo App, SD 1982]) defense not available when stop was for unrelated stay with girlfriend.)

It is clear that stops for food and gasoline do not constitute a break in travel. But what about stops such as overnight stays or major diversions to collect passengers? Stops such as this are a grey area under this law and it is hard to judge the line when a stop is directly incident to the journey or falls outside of that category. Due to the lack of any settled law, it is best for a gun owner to be cautious when planning any intermediate stops. When planning a trip it would be best for the gun owner to:

Plan a travel route through states where possession is legal under state or local law
Plan travel routes that avoid jurisdictions which heavily regulate firearms and minimize travel time and stops in jurisdictions which do so
Minimize the need for overnight stops
When making overnight stops, stay close to your travel route. Do not deviate from the route to stay overnight with friends or family.
Do not make major detours to collect passengers or packages. If possible, make arrangements to collect these close to your main travel route.
Make stops as brief as possible. Minimize length of stops whenever possible.
When stopped, even overnight, do not remove firearms from the car as doing so may remove the protection of federal law and may even constitute illegal carry of a firearm in that jurisdiction

FWIW, you could drive through Nevada when traveling from Tucson to Seattle and avoid Komifornia altogether. It looks to add only 10 miles to the trip.

 

[since9]

I tried to make some sense of CA's gun laws awhile ago...

I feel for you. I really do. It's as difficult to make sense of nonsense, however, as it is to transmogrify road apples into flapjacks.

 

[Brimstone Baritone]

You did see I was ASKING a question, right?

And the question is valid.

I saw. And your question was going great until you added that clause, which is why I broke it into two parts. There is such a thing as being too specific. If I took your question as asked the answer would have been "No.", and that wouldn't have been helpful, would it?

Have there been clear guidelines on what constitutes "travel through?" For example, let's take a trip from Tucson, AZ to Seattle, WA, via I-5 for the northbound leg. As long as you are progressing on your trip, what's wrong with stops along the way, and is there an actual ruling on how long these stops can be?

That question is valid. It also wasn't your original question. Are you sure you weren't fishing for a predetermined answer?

You said stopping for a couple days constitutes another trip, and forfeits protection of "travelling through." Now the burden is on you. Where are you getting this from?

At this point I want to thank John Canuck for his post. In the end, I'm not a lawyer so you're going to have to do whatever you think is best. If you want to potentially overstay your welcome in unfriendly territory, that's up to you. Maybe you can be the test case to settle the issue.

 

[mrjam2jab]

Something else to bring up... HR 822 and how it will affect states that only allow open carry via a permit/license.

See this map to see which states only allow open carry with some sort of firearms permit/license:
http://opencarry.org/opencarry.html

The verbiage in HR 822 seems to only force states to recognize all other states' permits when it pertains to carrying concealed.

If HR 822 passes, who will be able open carry in the "licensed open carry" states? Resident permit holders and non-resdient permit holders that have permits which are currently honored (as it is now)? Every state that has some sort of "license to carry" system? Resident permit holders only?

"Licensed open carry" states such as UT, IA, and IN already recognize every other state's carry permits. Some other "licensed open carry" states recognize a certain amount of other states' carry permits. MD and all the "licensed open carry" states around it do not recognize any other states permits.

Again, if HR 822 passes, will "licensed open carry" states still honor other states' "licenses to carry" that they currently do, as a permit to open carry... or will they have to recognize every other states "license to carry", as a permit to open carry... or will HR 822 hinder the original reciprocity states have currently and make it so only resident permit holders of a "licensed open carry" state can open carry in that state?

Hopefully I was clear in my comments and questions.

Anyone have any thoughts or comments on this?

I don't see it changing. Once you enter a state you will follow the laws of that state, if it allows for OC, whether licensed or not, you will be able to OC as your license will be honored.

 

[since9]

I don't see it changing. Once you enter a state you will follow the laws of that state, if it allows for OC, whether licensed or not, you will be able to OC as your license will be honored.

Most states allowing OC do not require a permit/license to do so. What then for those of us visiting those states which do?

 

[NewZealandAmerican]

I feel for you. I really do. It's as difficult to make sense of nonsense, however, as it is to transmogrify road apples into flapjacks.

"Transmogrify" an awesome new word I have learned!:idea: