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Utah permits for 18 to 20 year olds

utbagpiper

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This past session the Utah legislature passed and our Governor has now signed HB 198 that creates a Provision Permit to Carry a Firearm for those aged from 18 years to the 21st birthday, at which point folks are eligible for our regular carry permit.

The permit is distinct and separate from our regular permit for only 2 reasons:

1-To avoid causing any issues or concerns with recognition of our regular permit by other States;

2-The "Provisional" permit for 18 to 20 year olds is not valid on K-12 school grounds. Utah does not include any 1000' exclusion zone in our State GFSZ law. And my best reading of federal law says that the Provisional Permit does provide the federal exemption to the federal GFSZ law because it requires a background check before being issued.

Notably, the law change also prohibits those younger than 21 years who may be carrying on a non-Utah permit from carrying onto the grounds of K-12 schools in Utah. Federal GFSZ law prohibited this already, but under prior Utah State law, a person younger than 21 with say a Maine permit could carry into K-12 schools legally.

The Provision permit is available on the same conditions as the regular permit, non-Utah residents living in States that recognize the Provisional permit will have to first obtain a carry permit from their home States and submit evidence of holding that permit when applying for the Utah permit.

The Provisional permit is valid on College Campuses in Utah and with our strict State Preemption on firearm laws, permit holders will be protected in their ability to legally carry their gun without fear of State-run colleges taking negative action against them in any way, including on-campus housing, admissions, etc.

In simple terms, the new Provisional Permit will allow the vast majority of undergrads to now legally carry a firearm for self-defense while attending college, working, etc.

ETA:

I believe this law goes into effect about May 9th, 2017 (this year). BCI won't have course curriculum approved until probably late April. So there may be some delays with startup.

Charles
 
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countryclubjoe

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This past session the Utah legislature passed and our Governor has now signed HB 198 that creates a Provision Permit to Carry a Firearm for those aged from 18 years to the 21st birthday, at which point folks are eligible for our regular carry permit.

The permit is distinct and separate from our regular permit for only 2 reasons:

1-To avoid causing any issues or concerns with recognition of our regular permit by other States;

2-The "Provisional" permit for 18 to 20 year olds is not valid on K-12 school grounds. Utah does not include any 1000' exclusion zone in our State GFSZ law. And my best reading of federal law says that the Provisional Permit does provide the federal exemption to the federal GFSZ law because it requires a background check before being issued.

Notably, the law change also prohibits those younger than 21 years who may be carrying on a non-Utah permit from carrying onto the grounds of K-12 schools in Utah. Federal GFSZ law prohibited this already, but under prior Utah State law, a person younger than 21 with say a Maine permit could carry into K-12 schools legally.

The Provision permit is available on the same conditions as the regular permit, non-Utah residents living in States that recognize the Provisional permit will have to first obtain a carry permit from their home States and submit evidence of holding that permit when applying for the Utah permit.

The Provisional permit is valid on College Campuses in Utah and with our strict State Preemption on firearm laws, permit holders will be protected in their ability to legally carry their gun without fear of State-run colleges taking negative action against them in any way, including on-campus housing, admissions, etc.

In simple terms, the new Provisional Permit will allow the vast majority of undergrads to now legally carry a firearm for self-defense while attending college, working, etc.

ETA:

I believe this law goes into effect about May 9th, 2017 (this year). BCI won't have course curriculum approved until probably late April. So there may be some delays with startup.

Charles
So nice of the Utah Government to allow folks to defend themselves... The right to self defense comes from the Creator and no provisional permit slip should be needed or bargained thereof from the Government..
Charles, what is the cost for said permission slip?..
My .02
CCJ
 

solus

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how pleasant the tarheel state allows young adults 18 > to open carry without any type of a permit...

oh wait, come to think about it, this NC provision provides everyone can oc, not just young adults...

how fortuitous....

ipse

added, oh btw ccj...cost is zip, nada dinero!
 
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OC for ME

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19 y/o for any MO citizen, 18 if you are active/honorably discharged military. Spouse of a military member can get a permit while sponsor is stationed in MO.

Good luck Utah. Not a fan of provisional anything where the 2A is concerned but it is, as you point out, giving those who choose to do so the ability to carry while on college campi.
 

utbagpiper

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So nice of the Utah Government to allow folks to defend themselves... The right to self defense comes from the Creator and no provisional permit slip should be needed or bargained thereof from the Government..
Charles, what is the cost for said permission slip?..
How is that "all or nothing" attitude working to advance RKBA and self-defense in your home State, CCJ?

Utah moved to non-discriminatory permit issuance in 1994 or '95 (a bit before I got politically active). We did so without adding any new off limits locations. With the exception of explicitly allowing people to ban guns from their private residences, we haven't lost any location to lawful carrying since then.

We added recognition of all permits nationwide a few years later.

We forced local government entities, including public colleges and K-12 schools to drop anti-RKBA employment clauses, and to respect the rights of both visitors, employees, and adult students to lawfully carry. Our public college students can legally possess a firearm in their on-campus dorm room if they have a permit and the college cannot do anything to prevent that.

We've removed all requirement for a permit to carry a loaded and/or concealed firearm in one's car.

We've gained Parking Lot Preemption to protect employees from being disciplined or fired for keeping a legal gun in their car while parked in a company parking lot.

We've maintained our no-duty-to-retreat and defense of habitation laws that provide great legal protection against both criminal and civil prosecution or suit if an LAC uses a gun in lawful self-defense.

We've gained and retained some of the best recognition and reciprocity of any permit in the nation, while the permit costs a faction of the cost of most other States' permits, especially those permits with any notable recognition. We've kept the cost and training requirement (ie costs) of our permits low.

We've clarified that possession of a holstered firearm is not a violation of Disorderly Conduct even if the gun is fully visible.

And now we've extended the ability to legally carry a fully loaded and/or concealed firearm to those 18 and older.

I'm as offended by the need for a permit to exercise my 2nd amd (and Utah Constitution Art 1 Sec 6) rights as anyone. As I'm offended, I also recognize the practical limits of politics. So rather than ******* and moaning about how every law is imperfect, I've spent the last 20 years doing my little part to help move us in the right direction.

I fully expect we'll have permit free carry in the next 5 years. That is about 40 years later than I personally wanted to see it. I wonder how it will compare to any meaningful recognition of RKBA where you live.

The Provisional Permit costs $24.75 for a Utah resident, $34.75 for a non-Utah-resident, in addition to the costs for training, and getting a usable set of fingerprints and a photo. Here locally in Utah, you can find all kinds of approved classes for the regular that will run 4 hours in length, include fingerprinting and photographs, for $75. I expect Utah-approved instructors charge a fair bit more than that outside Utah.

Charles
 

utbagpiper

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19 y/o for any MO citizen, 18 if you are active/honorably discharged military. Spouse of a military member can get a permit while sponsor is stationed in MO.

Good luck Utah. Not a fan of provisional anything where the 2A is concerned but it is, as you point out, giving those who choose to do so the ability to carry while on college campi.
I would almost have preferred to do the 19, 18 with military or graduated from high school, and then not had any real reason to leave K-12 schools as off limits locations. But with so many 18 year olds still seniors in high school, we just were not going to get support unless they were not allowed to carry into public schools. And sometimes, good enough needs to be good enough. We can hope to improve on things in the future, again.

There is really nothing "Provisional" about the "Provisional Permit" except that it expires when one turns 21 under the presumption that the person will get a regular permit at that age. I think it was just a convenient name to distinguish it from our permit for those 21 and older so as to avoid any risk of recognition/reciprocity from other States for our existing permit.

One step forward is good, even if it isn't 3 steps forward.

Charles
 

utbagpiper

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how pleasant the tarheel state allows young adults 18 > to open carry without any type of a permit...

oh wait, come to think about it, this NC provision provides everyone can oc, not just young adults...
Is there something about one State making some modest progress on the legal ability to carry firearms for self-defense that causes certain folks to think it is a competition? Or feel a need to attack that progress?

Utah also allows any LAC 18 or older to OC without a permit. Admittedly, in most cases the gun has to be carried "Israeli Style" (ie, no round in the chamber). Of course, with the whole federal GFSZ and 1000 foot exclusion ring around all K-12 property, there are not many suburban or urban (or even rural incorporate) areas where anyone can practically, legally carry a gun without a permit issued by the State in which the school zone is located. Oh, maybe a non permit holder can map out a nice little walking route in his neighborhood that doesn't violate the federal GFSZ. But to freely travel about town with a gun, sans permit? Very difficult to impossible in most areas.

And of course, you'd never suggest anyone violate federal gun laws now would you? That would violate forum rules, you know.

If you want to compare notes on practical friendliness to the effective ability to legally carry a gun for self-defense I'll compare laws any day you want.

Utah permits private party sales of both long guns and handguns without any government interference. State law specifically bars requiring any permit to buy, own, or keep a firearm.

Utah has strict State preemption. Government recreational facilities, parks, libraries, etc cannot be off limits to legally carried guns. Public schools and public colleges cannot ban guns nor enforce any employment nor other policy against adults with permits carrying guns. With rare exception, all State and local government employees are protected in their right to carry a gun on the job once they have a permit to carry.

Our school teachers, college professors, other employees, and adult (21+ for K-12, now 18+ for college) students can carry without risk of termination, expulsion, or other negative action.

Our permit costs $25 for residents, renewals every 5 years cost $15 and a new photograph, no retraining required. Fully 37 States recognize a Utah permit, held by a Utah resident. Required training for the permit generally takes less than 4 hours and costs less than $100.

We can carry into a restaurant or bar, we can even legally imbibe while carrying so long as we are not legally intoxicated.

We can legally carry into the non-secure areas of the airports. Those with carry permits can legally carry a gun for self-defense, that isn't legal to hunt with, while hunting.

We have strong defense of habitation and no-duty-to-retreat laws, and have since before Statehood. These laws protect against civil liability in justified self-defense cases.

No laws against carrying at parades or other public events.

With the exception of court rooms, jails, prisons, and secure mental facilities, our public buildings including State capital, city buildings, etc are not and may not be off limits to legally carried guns.

Wildlife refuges and other areas are not off limits to legally carried guns even if hunting and shooting are prohibited.

And your favorite provision of Utah law is that private no gun policies at commercial businesses have no force of law.

Simply put, once a person has a Utah permit, there is almost no place except the Post Office (or other federal off limits location) and maybe his church, where he is likely to go on a regular basis where he cannot legally carry his gun. For private employees, carrying into the workplace may well violate private policy and risk negative employment action, but no criminal penalties; and parking lot protection if you want to leave the gun in the car.

We have no duty to inform in Utah.

Since this is an OC forum, I suppose you can get snooty about NC having better OC laws than Utah does. Doing so in an informational thread about a small bit of progress in Utah is rather rude, however. And ignoring the long list of off limits locations and other restrictions on carrying that gun is a bit duplicitous.

But you really don't want to get into a contest about relative ability to legally obtain and carry a firearm for self-defense in full compliance with all applicable federal, State, and local laws.

I should love to replicate NC's fully-loaded, permit-free OC in Utah so long as I can do so without all your off limits locations. OTOH, NC would greatly increase practical ability to legally obtain and carry a firearm for self-defense if they adopted almost every other gun law Utah has.

Now, could you please drop your weird obsession with all things Utah (and the small minded bigotry that drives it)? I don't recall the last time you made a post in the Utah section of this forum that had anything material to contribute to the discussion at all.

Charles
 

solus

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huh, wow, what a tangent did you toddle off on...

gun free zones, violating federal mandates, cost of permits, carry places, ad naseam...

course you managed to misrepresent the non governmental interference of purchasing a firearm in UTAH, (BCI check is required and therefore governmental oversight) but otherwise, the question remains acronym WTF are you babbling on about mate?

ipse
 

solus

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snip...

I can explain it to you. I can't understand it for you.
nawlll, that's the the point mate, you can't explain it w/o consistently misrepresenting it!

ipse

ps...there ya go with my sister's foto while in her garment...sigh!
 
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solus

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and i do not even need to ring a bell...

gotta love it when the chicken finds their rooster, huh mate!

ipse
 

solus

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again w/o a peep from the bell...fasinating, truly fasinating!

ipse

but as eye says...i'm gone
 
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