Armed_Orca
Newbie
Greetings all,
In light of the recent ruling of State v. Grandberry, I am seeing a lot of firearm websites declaring that you need a permit to carry in a vehicle now, period. None of them do anything but cite the case ruling. None of them point specifically to any one paragraph or statement in the ruling. Wikipedia was one of them (it looks like it has since been modified), as well as http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/wisconsin.pdf. I believe this is misinformation, mistaken or deliberate. I cannot find any reference in the actual ruling that specifically states that you MUST have a permit to carry in your vehicle now, no if, ands, or buts. As such, I do not believe this affects permitless "above the window line" OC carry.
State v. Grandberry
https://www.wicourts.gov/sc/opinion/DisplayDocument.pdf?content=pdf&seqNo=210924
My reasoning is as follows:
- State v. Grandberry simply affirmed that carrying a CONCEALED handgun in a vehicle requires a permit.
- The ruling in State v. Grandberry does not change the parameters for open car carry set out by State v. Walls. An individual is not concealing a dangerous weapon in a vehicle provided it isn't hidden from ordinary observation outside of the vehicle. "A handgun on the seat of a car that was indiscernible from ordinary observation by a person outside, and within the immediate vicinity, of the vehicle was hidden from view for purposes of determining whether the gun was a concealed weapon under this section." (State v. Walls) It is almost universally accepted among the WI OC community that this ruling allows one to openly carry a loaded handgun in a vehicle without a permit, provided it is placed above the window line and not concealed in any manner.
- State v. Granberry further confirms and acknowledges the ruling of State v. Walls, in regards to what constitutes an illegal concealed weapon in a vehicle. These elements are that the defendant was unlicensed, the weapon must be concealed (indiscernible from ordinary observation by a person outside, and within the immediate vicinity), loaded, and within reach. As evidenced in Kelly's affirmation:
¶55 And now, a postscript of sorts: Given Wisconsin's
proud hunting heritage, it's worth noting the Concealed Carry
Statute's shockingly broad proscriptions. In amending our
statutes to offer the opportunity to carry concealed handguns,
the legislature simultaneously made it unlawful to carry a
concealed rifle or other long gun. This may have been
inadvertent, but we give effect only to what the legislature
does, not what it tried to do.2 The Concealed Carry Statute
prohibits an individual from carrying a "dangerous weapon."
Wis. Stat. § 941.23(2). A "[d]angerous weapon" is, inter alia,
"any firearm, whether loaded or unloaded." Wis. Stat.
§ 939.22(10). There is no exception for rifles, shotguns, or
other long guns. A person can, of course, obtain a permit to
carry a concealed weapon, but they are available only for
handguns, electric weapons, and billy clubs. Wis. Stat.
§ 941.23(2)(d) (2015-16); Wis. Stat. § 175.60(1)(j) (2015-16).
So if you hunt, you may not put your rifle in a case. And if
you put your rifle in the passenger compartment of a vehicle,
you must display it in such a way that it is readily observable.
Mularkey, 201 Wis. at 432 ("If the weapon is hidden from
ordinary observation it is concealed. Absolute invisibility to
other persons is not indispensable to concealment. The test is,
was it carried so as not to be discernible by ordinary
observation." (citation omitted)).[/] The State is aware of this
overbreadth, which is why it instructs game wardens to ignore
the Concealed Carry Statute as it relates to hunters and their
long guns. In the course of arguing this case, the State
acknowledged that "as a practical matter, the DNR does not treat
rifles in a case as 'concealed.'"
¶56 Finally, a post postscript. The Concealed Carry
Statute also puts at risk all those who do not have concealed
carry permits who nonetheless bring their handguns to shooting
ranges. To comply with the statute, one would have to keep the
handgun uncased at all times, and if placed in the passenger
compartment of a vehicle, it would have to be situated so that
it is readily observable.
¶57 Neither of these postscripts, however, affect Mr.
Grandberry, so his conviction remains sound. Therefore, I
concur and join the court's mandate.
If you believe I am in error, I would appreciate if you could specifically cite an area in the State v. Granberry ruling showing such, as after scouring the ruling publication, I cannot.
I can't get an answer anywhere else either, it seems everyone is just lulled into a state of complacency because of the permit system now, so the standard answer is, "Who cares, get a permit." Some of us still like to carry without nanny's permission slip, that's why I care.
In light of the recent ruling of State v. Grandberry, I am seeing a lot of firearm websites declaring that you need a permit to carry in a vehicle now, period. None of them do anything but cite the case ruling. None of them point specifically to any one paragraph or statement in the ruling. Wikipedia was one of them (it looks like it has since been modified), as well as http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/wisconsin.pdf. I believe this is misinformation, mistaken or deliberate. I cannot find any reference in the actual ruling that specifically states that you MUST have a permit to carry in your vehicle now, no if, ands, or buts. As such, I do not believe this affects permitless "above the window line" OC carry.
State v. Grandberry
https://www.wicourts.gov/sc/opinion/DisplayDocument.pdf?content=pdf&seqNo=210924
My reasoning is as follows:
- State v. Grandberry simply affirmed that carrying a CONCEALED handgun in a vehicle requires a permit.
- The ruling in State v. Grandberry does not change the parameters for open car carry set out by State v. Walls. An individual is not concealing a dangerous weapon in a vehicle provided it isn't hidden from ordinary observation outside of the vehicle. "A handgun on the seat of a car that was indiscernible from ordinary observation by a person outside, and within the immediate vicinity, of the vehicle was hidden from view for purposes of determining whether the gun was a concealed weapon under this section." (State v. Walls) It is almost universally accepted among the WI OC community that this ruling allows one to openly carry a loaded handgun in a vehicle without a permit, provided it is placed above the window line and not concealed in any manner.
- State v. Granberry further confirms and acknowledges the ruling of State v. Walls, in regards to what constitutes an illegal concealed weapon in a vehicle. These elements are that the defendant was unlicensed, the weapon must be concealed (indiscernible from ordinary observation by a person outside, and within the immediate vicinity), loaded, and within reach. As evidenced in Kelly's affirmation:
¶55 And now, a postscript of sorts: Given Wisconsin's
proud hunting heritage, it's worth noting the Concealed Carry
Statute's shockingly broad proscriptions. In amending our
statutes to offer the opportunity to carry concealed handguns,
the legislature simultaneously made it unlawful to carry a
concealed rifle or other long gun. This may have been
inadvertent, but we give effect only to what the legislature
does, not what it tried to do.2 The Concealed Carry Statute
prohibits an individual from carrying a "dangerous weapon."
Wis. Stat. § 941.23(2). A "[d]angerous weapon" is, inter alia,
"any firearm, whether loaded or unloaded." Wis. Stat.
§ 939.22(10). There is no exception for rifles, shotguns, or
other long guns. A person can, of course, obtain a permit to
carry a concealed weapon, but they are available only for
handguns, electric weapons, and billy clubs. Wis. Stat.
§ 941.23(2)(d) (2015-16); Wis. Stat. § 175.60(1)(j) (2015-16).
So if you hunt, you may not put your rifle in a case. And if
you put your rifle in the passenger compartment of a vehicle,
you must display it in such a way that it is readily observable.
Mularkey, 201 Wis. at 432 ("If the weapon is hidden from
ordinary observation it is concealed. Absolute invisibility to
other persons is not indispensable to concealment. The test is,
was it carried so as not to be discernible by ordinary
observation." (citation omitted)).[/] The State is aware of this
overbreadth, which is why it instructs game wardens to ignore
the Concealed Carry Statute as it relates to hunters and their
long guns. In the course of arguing this case, the State
acknowledged that "as a practical matter, the DNR does not treat
rifles in a case as 'concealed.'"
¶56 Finally, a post postscript. The Concealed Carry
Statute also puts at risk all those who do not have concealed
carry permits who nonetheless bring their handguns to shooting
ranges. To comply with the statute, one would have to keep the
handgun uncased at all times, and if placed in the passenger
compartment of a vehicle, it would have to be situated so that
it is readily observable.
¶57 Neither of these postscripts, however, affect Mr.
Grandberry, so his conviction remains sound. Therefore, I
concur and join the court's mandate.
If you believe I am in error, I would appreciate if you could specifically cite an area in the State v. Granberry ruling showing such, as after scouring the ruling publication, I cannot.
I can't get an answer anywhere else either, it seems everyone is just lulled into a state of complacency because of the permit system now, so the standard answer is, "Who cares, get a permit." Some of us still like to carry without nanny's permission slip, that's why I care.