Weapons in Privately owned vehicle on company property

[bikemutt]

I think you're right about them coming back after the fact for revenge.

There are other issues where this business is located that require caution when returning to one's vehicle, especially after dark, which is not that late this time of year.

What I've learned so far is if the employer explicitly bans guns in locked, personal vehicles, they must first provide a secure area for vehicles to be parked. At least that's how I interpret what I've read.

I imagine the theory is if the vehicle is in a secure area you should have no fear of returning to it since the bad guys can't get in. That's all fine and dandy but my belief is even a garden-variety young mugger can scale a 6' chain link fence with no razor wire cap. Now who's in charge?

If I felt certain that breaking the rule (no guns) was not breaking the law, and the sole remedy if I'm caught breaking said rule is termination of employment, I'd pack very discreetly. Lets see: Job or Life, yeah, I can get another job.

 

[Deleted_User]

No need to carry at this job anymore

I'm now looking for a new job. I see how they feel and they let me know where I stand.

I guess I'll start job hunting again. This is 2 Christmas' in a row I've been out job hunting. Horrible time to do so.

 

[Ruby]

I'm now looking for a new job. I see how they feel and they let me know where I stand.

I guess I'll start job hunting again. This is 2 Christmas' in a row I've been out job hunting. Horrible time to do so.

Not necessarily a bad time, Goose. Some businesses are hiring for the holidaze; sometimes the job becomes permanent after the holidays are over. Hang on to the job you have while you are looking and consider jobs outside of what you normally do. Be creative!

 

[amlevin]

I'm now looking for a new job. I see how they feel and they let me know where I stand.

I guess I'll start job hunting again. This is 2 Christmas' in a row I've been out job hunting. Horrible time to do so.

What happened? I thought your job would be OK if the "Booze Initiatives" failed.

 

[Deleted_User]

My job was secure but I questioned policy too much I guess.

My life > my job, but paycheck > all when ya don't have one.

This had nothing to do with the initiatives. It had too much to do with me questioning what they thought was legal. I questioned, they trumped with the "at will"

 

[amlevin]

If I felt certain that breaking the rule (no guns) was not breaking the law, and the sole remedy if I'm caught breaking said rule is termination of employment, I'd pack very discreetly. Lets see: Job or Life, yeah, I can get another job.

What law would you be breaking? Hard to trespass an employee unless they terminate them and then you just leave.

The key is discretion. If you carry on your person make sure the firearm is small enough and your method of carry is capable of totally concealing, even when going about your activities. If you keep it in your vehicle make sure your "friends" at work don't know about it or see it. Sometimes your best friend at work will be more than happy to "stick it to you". Lastly, and the whole key to carrying successfully at work, when it's not allowed, is to KEEP IT TO YOURSELF. It's only a secret as long as YOU are the ONLY one that KNOWS. More often than not, one is "outed" when carrying at work because they just couldn't resist talking about it. Even here you might not want to share. Who knows who is reading this.

As for me, I carried as a matter of course even though it was forbidden. Do I care anymore who knows? Nope. Been retired for over 7 years now and my old employer can KMA. Didn't leave anything behind and my 401k was cashed out long before the "big dump". No more butt kissing here with employers. For those that still need to work, keep quiet and enjoy.

 

[bikemutt]

What law would you be breaking? Hard to trespass an employee unless they terminate them and then you just leave.

Good question: does no guns allowed = posted? Seems to me it's kinda the same thing, or could be thought of the same way.

 

[END_THE_FED]

.............What I've learned so far is if the employer explicitly bans guns in locked, personal vehicles, they must first provide a secure area for vehicles to be parked. At least that's how I interpret what I've read.....................

This is not true. Where did you read this?

 

[END_THE_FED]

Good question: does no guns allowed = posted? Seems to me it's kinda the same thing, or could be thought of the same way.

Generally speaking, a verbal statement of "No guns allowed", carries the exact same leagal weight as a sign, none.

It is not illegal to take a gun into a business that bans them.
It doesn't matter if they post a sign or not.
You broke no law until you refuse to leave after being told to do so, and after that it is trespassing, it doesn't matter if you were asked to leave because they didn't like your gun or because they don't like your shoes.

 

[John Hardin]

This is not true. Where did you read this?

There is no law that states this, it's more a principle of implied liability. Which is rather weak for us to rely on.

Making that liability explicit is the rationale behind one of the other proposals I've been pushing...

http://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/wa_gun_laws_gun_free_zones.txt

If the liability is explicit, then the cost/benefit analysis will change, hopefully in our favor.

 

[gogodawgs]

An update: Barista on paid leave and will return to his job when ready,

even though he violated company policy. Police will not charge the victim (barista) for any crime. The perpertrater had an extensive criminal record.

Score: Baristas of the World = 2 (I remember an Idaho barista last year)
Bad guys =1

http://www.kval.com/news/local/111147229.html

EUGENE, Ore. - A coffee stand employee who shot and killed a suspect during a robbery attempt will not face any criminal charges, but officials in both law enforcement and the company that owns the stand have offered few additional details.
Sirus Combs, 27, died in what police described as an exchange of gunfire at the Dutch Bros. Coffee stand on Franklin Boulevard near the University of Oregon.
However, officials have not said who had guns or fired them beyond saying the barista, who has not been identified, shot and killed Combs.
A Dutch Bros. spokeswoman said the barista is still on paid leave and will return to work when he is ready. She did not know whether the gun belonged to the employee or not.
"We are extremely thankful that our employee was not injured in the robbery on Nov. 24 and are appreciative that no charges will be filed," Travis Boersma, CEO/Co-Founder of Dutch Bros. Coffee, said in a prepared statement Wednesday. "We work closely with our employees and do our best to ensure they are safe and protected while at work and will continue to do so. All procedures will be reviewed and evaluated as a result of this incident."

Dutch Bros. barista shoots, kills robber in Eugene



UPDATED 8:40 a.m.: Police in Eugene are investigating an attempted coffee-shop robbery Wednesday night that ended with the barista shooting and killing one of the suspects.

Authorities say that around 9 p.m. Wednesday, two men tried to rob the Dutch Bros. Coffee kiosk in the 2100 block of Franklin Blvd. near Walnut Street. One individual forced his way into the shop while the other stood outside, Lt. Doug Mozan said this morning.

An apparent struggle ensued inside the kiosk, Mozan said. The coffee-shop employee shot the robber, who died at the scene. The second suspect fled.

Police are not releasing the identity of either the employee or the shooting victim. Travis Boersma, co-founder of the Grants Pass-based coffee chain, declined comment until police complete their investigation.

Angie Galimanis, a spokeswoman for the company, said the company has a policy prohibiting employees from carrying firearms at work. But it was not immediately clear what weapon was used in the shooting. Galimanis said the robber was armed.

Police are looking for the second robbery suspect. He is described as a white male, 20 to 30 years of age, standing 5-foot-10 with blond hair and medium build. He was last seen wearing dark jeans, brown hiking boots and a dark, zip-up, puffy coat with a fold-down collar.

Dutch Bros., one of the nation's largest privately held coffee shop chains, has 156 locations in seven states.

 

[amlevin]

even though he violated company policy. Police will not charge the victim (barista) for any crime. The perpertrater had an extensive criminal record.

Score: Baristas of the World = 2 (I remember an Idaho barista last year)
Bad guys =1

http://www.kval.com/news/local/111147229.html

I'd bet that even a lot of those that hate guns would question this guy's being fired. They may hate guns but a good number of them hate the criminal element more. Company probably figured that termination might just be bad "press".

 

[gogodawgs]

I'd bet that even a lot of those that hate guns would question this guy's being fired. They may hate guns but a good number of them hate the criminal element more. Company probably figured that termination might just be bad "press".

Some additional thoughts:

Dutch Bros. Coffee is a franchise and each stand is individually owned.

The policy (either for or against carry) will remain private. It may be that it is still against company policy, but it will not be enforced. Thereby, leaving the owner out of any legal liablity.

This is in Eugene, OR. Center of the World for anarchists and hippies (my apologies to Freemont in Seattle)

 

[Deleted_User]

Some additional thoughts:

Dutch Bros. Coffee is a franchise and each stand is individually owned.

The policy (either for or against carry) will remain private. It may be that it is still against company policy, but it will not be enforced. Thereby, leaving the owner out of any legal liablity.

This is in Eugene, OR. Center of the World for anarchists and hippies (my apologies to Freemont in Seattle)

@GoGo: I was just reading that. Thanks for posting.

Personally, I don't think ANY barrista should go unarmed in their little coffee stands .. but that's in the grand society where no one everyone with a gun isn't a BG

 

[Metalhead47]

@GoGo: I was just reading that. Thanks for posting.

Personally, I don't think ANY barrista should go unarmed in their little coffee stands .. but that's in the grand society where no one everyone with a gun isn't a BG

And the bikini barristas would HAVE to OC! :banana:

 

[amlevin]

Some additional thoughts:

Dutch Bros. Coffee is a franchise and each stand is individually owned.

The policy (either for or against carry) will remain private. It may be that it is still against company policy, but it will not be enforced. Thereby, leaving the owner out of any legal liablity.

This is in Eugene, OR. Center of the World for anarchists and hippies (my apologies to Freemont in Seattle)

I thought San Francisco and Berkley were the Center of their world. Did it "shift"?

 

[amlevin]

And the bikini barristas would HAVE to OC! :banana:

Some of them could hide a weapon anywhere in the "stand" and get their hands on it without anyone noticing. After all, who'd be watching their hands?

 

[amlevin]

Update

The owner has announced that this employee can return whenever he is ready. He also announced that they are reviewing the "rule" of No Guns.
http://heraldnet.com/article/20101205/NEWS03/712059871
Now that they have chosen to NOT terminate an employee for carrying a firearm in violation of the rules it might be difficult in the future to automatically fire an employee who carrys. I would expect that they might now allow barristas to arm themselves with proper training. First Barrista's and then Convenience Store Clerks. If we can't keep those that like to rob for a living in jail maybe a few of them "on slabs" might deter the rest.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

The owner has announced that this employee can return whenever he is ready. He also announced that they are reviewing the "rule" of No Guns.
http://heraldnet.com/article/20101205/NEWS03/712059871
Now that they have chosen to NOT terminate an employee for carrying a firearm in violation of the rules it might be difficult in the future to automatically fire an employee who carrys. I would expect that they might now allow barristas to arm themselves with proper training. First Barrista's and then Convenience Store Clerks. If we can't keep those that like to rob for a living in jail maybe a few of them "on slabs" might deter the rest.

Would set another precedent, wouldn't that be nice.