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What will Open Carry be like in CA 2012?

Felid`Maximus

Activist Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Messages
1,711
Location
Reno, Nevada, USA
My thoughts on 2012 and beyond California laws:

1. In California, open carry of a large knife (or even sword) might be better for many close range self-defense situations anyway as it is faster to deploy... especially compared to unloaded guns carried in locked cases.
KA-BAR-2-1257-rw-14905-26120.jpg

Katana.gif


2. Firearms with barrels over 16 inches are not legally capable of being concealed. Smaller examples can be carried in a holster like a typical handgun, therefore not attracting as much attention if carried openly, and can even be concealed. A pistol grip shotgun in a belt scabbard is like a giant holstered handgun that is quick to load and fires several projectiles with a single trigger pull.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2883584/ShotgunUOC.MPG <--- I posted this video here a while ago showing a clumsy draw.
shotgunholster.jpg


15213.jpg

<-- This rifle needs a .5 inch stock extension (sold by Kel-Tec) and a bullet button or grip fin to be legal in California . It folds down to about 16.1" x 7"
1873_buntline_target.jpg
<-- 18 inch barreled handgun.

There is also the feather .22 caliber rifle that only weighs 2.5 lbs and is just about 26 inches long with the stock off or folded. (Although I can't get mine to work... I bought one used and broken.)

image3731.jpg
<-- Exempt from assault weapons rules because it is a .22lr.

3. If one was not concerned at all about attracting attention or bearing a heavy load and just wanted to open carry a long gun on a sling, that would be an option as well. Optionally, you could throw a bayonet on the end of an openly carried rifle to make it more effective before you have time to load it.

The M1-Garand and Short-Magazine-Lee Enfield seem like nice rifles for the ability to quickly put into action. I'm sure there are multitudes of other firearms that would be relatively quick also. Personally however, it seems that big long guns are too heavy, and get in the way too much to be carried on the person regularly, but they'd probably be good "in-the-vehicle" firearms.

In my opinion, a rifle carried slung upside down on the weak shoulder (a.k.a. African Carry) is much faster to bring to action then a rifle carried slung right side up. As a bonus, carrying this way is unlikely to hang up on doorways.

4. Exemptions... one might consider translucent locked case open carry of handguns. [Perhaps an all enclosing, locking, Plexiglas belt holster?] That seems to be the least obtrusive exception, followed with the "entertainment rehearsal" and "charitable organization" exceptions.

5. If I lived in California, I'd consider making my residence in a county where they give out permits more easily, even if I spent a lot of time working or otherwise being in a different county. That way you could do loaded concealed carry and loaded open carry, which is far better than unloaded open carry.

6. Probably in the next three years, California will try and make the restrictions on guns even harsher. They may target long gun carry, make exemptions for handguns harder to come by, and who knows what else.

7. H.R. 822, if it passes the U.S. Senate, would allow people like me who live in Nevada to carry concealed handguns in L.A. and San Francisco. Hopefully, California will respond by making it possible for all people in California to obtain permits. Or California legislators will throw a hissy fit and end all permitting for civilians.
 
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Ca Patriot

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
2,330
Location
, ,
You can keep fighting in California as much as you like. I was simply stating my belief that over the long run, the demographic and political tide will go against you. Some of us are at the point at which we wish we could wash our hands of California, as it does not seem to export anything positive, politically-speaking. The peaceful migration from the PRC is doing more damage to free states than an armed invasion, such as what you allude to after the civil war, ever could. If we were separate nations, that problem could be abated.

Agreed. I left CA for greener pastures (and more freedom) this year.

I applaud those who are staying and fighting but you have lost and you will continue to lose.

California, and the nation, have allowed the demographics of CA to change to such a degree that it cant be reversed (short of a war)

That means that its a lost cause. LOST.

I left because no one lives forever and I want to live the rest of my life in freedom and I want my kids to live in freedom. And safety and beauty, with money.

If it ever comes to a situation where we Americans can truely FIGHT to restore rights and freedom and liberty then I will help out of California.

Until that time I will enjoy my new home with the most gun freedoms in America, no sales tax and world class fishing right outside my door.
 

Save Our State

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2011
Messages
287
Location
The Golden State
Agreed. I left CA for greener pastures (and more freedom) this year.

I applaud those who are staying and fighting but you have lost and you will continue to lose.

California, and the nation, have allowed the demographics of CA to change to such a degree that it cant be reversed (short of a war)

That means that its a lost cause. LOST.

I left because no one lives forever and I want to live the rest of my life in freedom and I want my kids to live in freedom. And safety and beauty, with money.

If it ever comes to a situation where we Americans can truely FIGHT to restore rights and freedom and liberty then I will help out of California.

Until that time I will enjoy my new home with the most gun freedoms in America, no sales tax and world class fishing right outside my door.

Never ceases to amaze me how those who have run, are so quick to recruit others to do the same. Is it because they will never feel good about it until the majority or at least a larger crowd reinforce their position or decision to do so?

I left because no one lives forever and I want to live the rest of my life in freedom and I want my kids to live in freedom.

You live in exile. That's a substitute or a placebo for real freedom

If it ever comes to a situation where we Americans can truely FIGHT to restore rights and freedom and liberty then I will help out of California
Oh please! Fool yourself all you like, but You are not fooling me. We've already read what your made of. There's no way in hell I'd expect your help. And I certainly wouldn't try and sell that to any of the rest of us should that time come
 
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Iopencarry

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
637
Location
Oakley, California, United States
For those that stay and fight for freedom, I say thank you

for those that fought and had to leave because of family or work, and continue to fight for freedom, again thank you

for those that are to tired or chicken to stay and fight, thanks for nothing, don't let the door hit ya the good lord split ya

Ca Patriot ha ha don't think so. you need to change that log in to a new one. like try

Ca Traitor

You never fought to help us, all you have done is complain about how bad it is. Well guess what the true Patriots are still here and we will win our freedom.

Carry On my brothers and sisters, AB144 might be a little step back, but it did not stop OC of handguns. Read the full law, know the law, know all the exemptions that they put into it. Work within the system as we fight for change.
 

Ca Patriot

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
2,330
Location
, ,
I voted.

It didnt work.

California is all yours now.

Dont blame it. I didnt screw up California.

I paid alot of tax dollars to this state because I am wealthy.

You should be thanking people like me.

Either way, I dont feel bad about leaving.

If you were a true patriot you would be at the southern border with your rifle and handgun preventing illegals from coming into America.

They are the biggest reason California sucks.

I spent many many days and weeks down there with citizen patrol groups. I have hundreds of videos of me being an American patriot and California patriot by guarding against foreign invaders.

How much time have any of YOU guys spent down there being shot at by cartel members and harrassed and threatened by American border patrol agents ?
 
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A ECNALG

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2009
Messages
138
Location
Orange County, California, USA
If you were a true patriot you would be at the southern border with your rifle and handgun preventing illegals from coming into America.

They are the biggest reason California sucks.

I spent many many days and weeks down there with citizen patrol groups. I have hundreds of videos of me being an American patriot and California patriot by guarding against foreign invaders.

How much time have any of YOU guys spent down there being shot at by cartel members and harrassed and threatened by American border patrol agents ?

What's your radio call sign when you are down there? Perhaps we've met. PM me if you prefer.
 

Save Our State

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2011
Messages
287
Location
The Golden State
I voted.

It didnt work.

California is all yours now.

Dont blame it. I didnt screw up California.

I paid alot of tax dollars to this state because I am wealthy.

You should be thanking people like me.

Either way, I dont feel bad about leaving.

If you were a true patriot you would be at the southern border with your rifle and handgun preventing illegals from coming into America.

They are the biggest reason California sucks.

I spent many many days and weeks down there with citizen patrol groups. I have hundreds of videos of me being an American patriot and California patriot by guarding against foreign invaders.

How much time have any of YOU guys spent down there being shot at by cartel members and harrassed and threatened by American border patrol agents ?

Spare me. I manage one of the most in-your-face anti-illegal immigration groups in California. We've done countless events whereever illegals have been prolific. Day labor centers, home depots, the mexican consulates, the events held by mexicans here to celebrate their independence day, and just a ton more. I've been to the border, but what I saw there did not deter me from continuing the fight back home. I was at the last mexican independence day celebration in the face of several thousand foreigners as they took over our state capitol. I've been at this for 8 or 9 years, almost relentlessly. If what you saw or did was just too much to bear, then fine; Say it for what it is. But please, oh please do not tell the rest of us your tale of woe and how we are all doomed. The people still fighting are the only ones who would know if anything was lost yet. You'll get the message via delivery boy. Maybe it will be in S-Pan-Yol
 

Thundar

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
4,941
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
Let me ask you something. When was the last time you openly carried an AR or AK pattern long gun into a Starbucks in Newport News, Virginia? I am guessing without looking at your post history that you have never carried a long gun in an urban setting. You might not have a 'need' to, but you have better justification by Article I Section 13 of the Commonwealth of Virginia's Constitution... But you have made a conscious descision not to carry a long gun into a Starbucks to socialize with other gun owners.

Why not? You are promoting an activity in a state that has no state level right to keep and bear arms from the safety of your armchair 3,000 miles away in a state that does, that you, yourself do not practice. It isnt a question of need, but appropriateness. Right now, in California, it is not appropriate to shoulder a rifle when we have less conspicuous and more common defensive arms available for us to use to prove our position.



I often open carry long guns in my truck and on my person. I live a block from the shoreline of Hampton Roads (Chesapeake Ave) and often go for a stroll encompassing parts of Hampton and Newport News slinging my Kel-Tec SU-16. I wrote about it on this website more than once but stopped because of the stupid rule.
When I lived in Chesapeake my rifle and shotgun were in the truck gun rack even when I went to my sons school. Drove 'em crazy but completely legal.

I even organized a long gun trash pick up at the Virginia Beach Convention Center. It was all written about here on OCDO. JAGWAG reported the event to the BATFE and then bragged about it. (Mike banned him from the site for that.)

I have never open carried anything in Starbucks because $5 for a cup of Joe is stupid and I don't go to Starbucks, though I considered going there after they decided not to give in to the Brady Bunch.

The important thing about rights is that they are not predicated upon need or somebody else's subjective appropriateness mantra.

If I lived in LA right now I would sling a rifle. 32 arsons in two nights is scary. Somebody can hurl a molitov cocktail from a range that makes handguns fairly ineffective, thus a need for long gun open carry.

If people are persecuted for going about their business LGOC then they should have LGOC rallies.

Live Free or Die,
Thundar
 

ConditionThree

State Pioneer
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
2,223
Location
Shasta County, California, USA
I often open carry long guns in my truck and on my person. I live a block from the shoreline of Hampton Roads (Chesapeake Ave) and often go for a stroll encompassing parts of Hampton and Newport News slinging my Kel-Tec SU-16. I wrote about it on this website more than once but stopped because of the stupid rule.
When I lived in Chesapeake my rifle and shotgun were in the truck gun rack even when I went to my sons school. Drove 'em crazy but completely legal.

I even organized a long gun trash pick up at the Virginia Beach Convention Center. It was all written about here on OCDO. JAGWAG reported the event to the BATFE and then bragged about it. (Mike banned him from the site for that.)

I have never open carried anything in Starbucks because $5 for a cup of Joe is stupid and I don't go to Starbucks, though I considered going there after they decided not to give in to the Brady Bunch.

The important thing about rights is that they are not predicated upon need or somebody else's subjective appropriateness mantra.

If I lived in LA right now I would sling a rifle. 32 arsons in two nights is scary. Somebody can hurl a molitov cocktail from a range that makes handguns fairly ineffective, thus a need for long gun open carry.

If people are persecuted for going about their business LGOC then they should have LGOC rallies.

Live Free or Die,
Thundar

Please tell me what objective you hope to win, by holding long gun open carry 'rallies' in the places where handgun UOC was subjected to greater restrictions by our legislature last year.

I can tell you that there are a limited number of possible outcomes for this. One of them is ignoring such activity- and based upon prior experience, I dont think that is very likely. Then there are dozens of anticipated and unanticipated consquences, none of which ends in achieving more liberty without spending lots of time and money on litigation.

Failure to acknowledge these facts exposes your ignorance of the vociferously anti gun politics in California or the willingness to encourgage others to needlessly fall upon their swords while you have absolutely zero skin in this game.
 

Thundar

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
4,941
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
Please tell me what objective you hope to win, by holding long gun open carry 'rallies' in the places where handgun UOC was subjected to greater restrictions by our legislature last year.

I can tell you that there are a limited number of possible outcomes for this. One of them is ignoring such activity- and based upon prior experience, I dont think that is very likely. Then there are dozens of anticipated and unanticipated consquences, none of which ends in achieving more liberty without spending lots of time and money on litigation.

Failure to acknowledge these facts exposes your ignorance of the vociferously anti gun politics in California or the willingness to encourgage others to needlessly fall upon their swords while you have absolutely zero skin in this game.

Oh comne on Condition 3! First you condemned me because you wrongly asserted that I have not done LGOC in an urban setting. Now you call me ignorant because Kali is different. Last time I looked, Kali was still part of the United States of America and had the same supreme law as every other state in the union.

I speak in terms of rights, not objectives. Acting free and being free is not an objective, it is a philosophy and a way of life. The rally would happen if the boot of tyranny came down upon citizens exercising their god given rights. It is effective and it does work. Stand together or hang seperately.

There is always a reason why we should not do this or that, but in the end we all must draw a line. You obviosly have not yet grown tired of liking the boot of the statist control freaks. I am done with that. I exercise my rights and justify my actions to no one.

I do not wait for the "right time" to act as a free man. I act as a free man. A right unexercised is a right lost.

Just do it.

Thundar

P.S. You didn't even talk about the very real threat posed by arsonists that can be much more effectively countered by rifles than by handguns. There are lots of reasons to sling rifles instead of handguns, but like I said we don't need reasons to exercise our rights.
 

ConditionThree

State Pioneer
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
2,223
Location
Shasta County, California, USA
Oh comne on Condition 3! First you condemned me because you wrongly asserted that I have not done LGOC in an urban setting. Now you call me ignorant because Kali is different. Last time I looked, Kali was still part of the United States of America and had the same supreme law as every other state in the union.

I speak in terms of rights, not objectives. Acting free and being free is not an objective, it is a philosophy and a way of life. The rally would happen if the boot of tyranny came down upon citizens exercising their god given rights. It is effective and it does work. Stand together or hang seperately.

There is always a reason why we should not do this or that, but in the end we all must draw a line. You obviosly have not yet grown tired of liking the boot of the statist control freaks. I am done with that. I exercise my rights and justify my actions to no one.

I do not wait for the "right time" to act as a free man. I act as a free man. A right unexercised is a right lost.

Just do it.

Thundar

P.S. You didn't even talk about the very real threat posed by arsonists that can be much more effectively countered by rifles than by handguns. There are lots of reasons to sling rifles instead of handguns, but like I said we don't need reasons to exercise our rights.

I have not condemned anyone. I made a supposition that long gun carry is not your normal mode of carry in ordinary social circumstances. I still believe this to be true in spite of your experiences carrying during litter pick ups and solo strolls. Ignorance is not an ad hominum or epithet- it is a description of a state of not being knowledgable of certain facts. And I believe you are ignorant of certain facts.

For instance; Until the courts rule that we have a right to bear arms in California- no such right exists and jurisprudence will continue under this belief until it is corrected. It is illegal to carry a concealed weapon without a license to do so. It is illegal to carry a loaded firearm under most circumstances in urban areas. It is now illegal to openly carry a handgun unless you fit some exemption that benefits certain professions and classes. ALL of these restrictions have been enacted and been advanced because of Californias unique political climate- which many have described as a different country from the United States in various derrogatory terms- 'The Left Coast', KDR (Kalifornia Democratic Republik), PRK (The People's Republic of Kalifornia), 'The Land of Fruits and Nuts', as well as 'Kali' et al. Will you now say that if we just act as if we are free, all of the socialist garbage California natives are subjected to will magically vanish and the bells of liberty will toll across the land?

If I were to do as I am naturally inclined (specifically- to holster a loaded handgun on my hip) and go about my day to day business as if school zone prohibitions (626.9), prohibitions on loaded weapons in city limits (25800), prohibitions on all weapons on postal property, prohibitions on weapons in public buildings (171b)... I would be arrested and jailed. I would probably lose my right to possess firearms. How the *&% does that make anyone a 'free' man? Would I 'feel' it just before the police put the handcuffs on me? And the effect doesnt end at my arrest and incarceration here in California.

Because of the nature of our legislature, they are a full time, professional law making industry. If there is a problem somewhere, no matter how insignificant, this hive of self serving, officious, glad handing, back slappers and bloviators are making every effort to solve it in the most tyrannical and corrosive means possible (and that is just when they are trying to keep the environment clean). A great big helping of long gun open carry on their plate cannot possibly be any better than when our legislature is deciding how to impose regulations on clean air. When we still have the means to openly carry a handgun using the exemptions that they wrote into the law, there is no overriding benefit to long gun open carry.

And no- I didnt address anything about your comment about arsonists. It is irrelevant in this discussion, because unless you are certain and can prove that someone is in immediate grave danger of bodily harm or death, you cannot justifiably shoot an arsonist. There is no provision for justifiable homocide to protect property in the manner you are describing.

Signed, The boot licking statist toady.
 

Thundar

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
4,941
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
I have not condemned anyone. I made a supposition that long gun carry is not your normal mode of carry in ordinary social circumstances. I still believe this to be true in spite of your experiences carrying during litter pick ups and solo strolls. Ignorance is not an ad hominum or epithet- it is a description of a state of not being knowledgable of certain facts. And I believe you are ignorant of certain facts.

For instance; Until the courts rule that we have a right to bear arms in California- no such right exists and jurisprudence will continue under this belief until it is corrected. It is illegal to carry a concealed weapon without a license to do so. It is illegal to carry a loaded firearm under most circumstances in urban areas. It is now illegal to openly carry a handgun unless you fit some exemption that benefits certain professions and classes. ALL of these restrictions have been enacted and been advanced because of Californias unique political climate- which many have described as a different country from the United States in various derrogatory terms- 'The Left Coast', KDR (Kalifornia Democratic Republik), PRK (The People's Republic of Kalifornia), 'The Land of Fruits and Nuts', as well as 'Kali' et al. Will you now say that if we just act as if we are free, all of the socialist garbage California natives are subjected to will magically vanish and the bells of liberty will toll across the land?

If I were to do as I am naturally inclined (specifically- to holster a loaded handgun on my hip) and go about my day to day business as if school zone prohibitions (626.9), prohibitions on loaded weapons in city limits (25800), prohibitions on all weapons on postal property, prohibitions on weapons in public buildings (171b)... I would be arrested and jailed. I would probably lose my right to possess firearms. How the *&% does that make anyone a 'free' man? Would I 'feel' it just before the police put the handcuffs on me? And the effect doesnt end at my arrest and incarceration here in California.

Because of the nature of our legislature, they are a full time, professional law making industry. If there is a problem somewhere, no matter how insignificant, this hive of self serving, officious, glad handing, back slappers and bloviators are making every effort to solve it in the most tyrannical and corrosive means possible (and that is just when they are trying to keep the environment clean). A great big helping of long gun open carry on their plate cannot possibly be any better than when our legislature is deciding how to impose regulations on clean air. When we still have the means to openly carry a handgun using the exemptions that they wrote into the law, there is no overriding benefit to long gun open carry.

And no- I didnt address anything about your comment about arsonists. It is irrelevant in this discussion, because unless you are certain and can prove that someone is in immediate grave danger of bodily harm or death, you cannot justifiably shoot an arsonist. There is no provision for justifiable homocide to protect property in the manner you are describing.

Signed, The boot licking statist toady.

Rights do not depend on the recognition of California Courts. The right to keep and bear arms is a pre-existing right.

I did not advocate that you violate stupid California laws and end up being arrested. I advocate for the lawful bearing of arms that is for now LGOC in California. Telling people to take advantage of exemptions to carry handguns will work some of the time, but not all of the time.

If you are not willing to exercise a right then you have already lost the right.

Did you see the video of the German throwing a molitov cocktail at a building in L.A.? If I was in or around that building and had a rifle, I would dump that scumbag. Remember the reports are that this arsonist did not work alone.

Just Do It,
Thundar
 

Thundar

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
4,941
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
It has Started

Joseph S Kutches carried at a Bay Area Mall today. No arrest, just po-po over reaction to a free man acting like a free man.

See Dr. Mark's post (Dale City Mall Post)for details.

Just do it,

THUNDAR
 
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ConditionThree

State Pioneer
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
2,223
Location
Shasta County, California, USA
Joseph S Kutches carried at a Bay Area Mall today. No arrest, just po-po over reaction to a free man acting like a free man.

See Dr. Mark's post (Dale City Mall Post)for details.

Just do it,

THUNDAR

You fail to mention that he was tresspassed from the property, was handcuffed while he was detained and had his coffee spilled for his trouble. (That sure doesnt seem that 'free' considering that this is all over an unloaded firearm.) And those are only the effects that can immediately be seen and known.

Can you guess what the California Peace Officer's Association is doing in response to this incident and how that might be magnified with a landslide of long gun carrying imitators that will refuse to carry a handgun using the exemptions as I have recommended?
 

Thundar

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
4,941
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
Can you guess what the California Peace Officer's Association is doing in response to this incident and how that might be magnified with a landslide of long gun carrying imitators that will refuse to carry a handgun using the exemptions as I have recommended?

Well the point is open carrying is a right and they cannot do much except pee on themselves and whine to the legislature.

So you have recommended everybody use your handy dandy exemptions. If I lived in L.A. and wanted to open carry while I went grocery shopping, which exemption would I use?
 

ConditionThree

State Pioneer
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
2,223
Location
Shasta County, California, USA
Well the point is open carrying is a right and they cannot do much except pee on themselves and whine to the legislature.

So you have recommended everybody use your handy dandy exemptions. If I lived in L.A. and wanted to open carry while I went grocery shopping, which exemption would I use?

Transporting an unloaded handgun is a regulated enterprise in California. While the legislature is happy with that, the law enforcement community will probably want more guns regulated under that same law if they continue to experience trouble with advocates.

The two least complicated are licensed hunter on the way to or from a 'hunting expedition' or authorized participant in a 'video production'. If one desires more latitude, one might transport their 'merchandise' as a licensed dealer/gunsmith. As with home security, it is better if you layer your defenses, so using more than one exemption is preferable-especially any combination while running video for your 'videodocumentary'. I am not an attorney but I can direct you to the 'nullifying AB144' thread- where the subject is being discussed.

The exemptions may keep you from being prosecuted, however it probably won't help you in the private sector. It appears that the property owner who tresspassed Joe is now seeking a restraining order against him. How does one fix that in the perceptions of undecided bystanders?
 
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