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Why Carry a Gun Around the House? Man Returns Fire on Would be Murderer - Lynchburg

jmelvin

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This happened last night in a relatively peaceful area of town.

"Lynchburg, Va., (WSET) -- A man was taken into custody early Saturday morning for attempted murder according to Lynchburg Police.

Police say they responded to 629 Old Graves Mill Road around 6:28 p.m. in reference to shots fired Friday night.

When they arrived on scene, police say they spoke with the victim who said that her husband, Curtis Edward Thrasher, 58, of Lynchburg, fired several shots at her and a juvenile female that was with her...."

"Police say the victim and her juvenile passenger got out of the van and ran through the woods behind the residence as Thrasher began firing a handgun at them.

A local resident who was working on a vehicle in the garage behind the home observed the incident and began firing a handgun at Thrasher in defense of the victims according to police."

http://wset.com/news/local/police-lynchburg-man-arrested-for-attempted-murder

http://www.newsadvance.com/news/loc...cle_12e884fa-e275-11e5-9c36-0fb45a1d7cca.html

Update: The man who returned fire did so with his friend's gun and shot to protect his own mother.

http://wset.com/news/local/local-man-shoots-at-gunman-to-save-mother-from-attack
 
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WalkingWolf

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one count of Possession of a Firearm by convicted Felon

The story has to be bogus, it was clearly against the law for Thrasher to be in possession of a firearm. We all know that criminals obey these laws.(sarcasm)
 

jmelvin

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So, what did the second guy know that we don't know??????

You mean the guy that returned fire? He probably knew that the husband was a dangerous man who may only have ever had a conviction for cocaine possession, but likely had other non-adjudicated illegal activities in his life. Thrasher was not only a felon in possession of a firearm, he had one of those magical protective orders against him that "should have prevented" him from having a gun or being around his spouse. Clearly it didn't work. Thank God, there was someone around who didn't just rely on paper laws to protect the innocent.
 

TFred

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Update:

The man who returned fire did so with his friend's gun to protect his mother.

http://wset.com/news/local/local-man-shoots-at-gunman-to-save-mother-from-attack

(I have updated the story in the first post.)
This man has obviously not spoken to an attorney. He very well may end up being charged with a crime himself.

From the article:

"I had to think about the background of the shot so it wasn't mainly shoot to kill it was shoot to kind of scare him off and also be cautious of the houses around."

He breaks several rules we have all learned from User, the first being Keep Your Big Mouth Shut!! And never say that you shoot at someone for ANY OTHER reason than you were in fear for your life, or that of another.

This could get very bad for the guy.

TFred
 
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Citizen

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This man has obviously not spoken to an attorney. He very well may end up being charged with a crime himself.

From the article:

"I had to think about the background of the shot so it wasn't mainly shoot to kill it was shoot to kind of scare him off and also be cautious of the houses around."

He breaks several rules we have all learned from User, the first being Keep Your Big Mouth Shut!! And never say that you shoot at someone for ANY OTHER reason than you were in fear for your life, or that of another.

This could get very bad for the guy.

TFred

1. You raise a very interesting point. What happens if I cannot shoot-to-stop because of innocents who would become backstops if I miss or perforate? Does it really make sense for government to play some game, claiming that since I fired into the dirt in order to distract it was not a legitimate lethal-force situation?

2. While the defender in the news story should in fact KYBMS (keep your big mouth shut), I'm thinking it won't be hard for a good defense attorney to turn that statement into heroism--the guy saved his mom, did not jeopardize other lives or property, and avoided taking another human life--all at the same time. Yes, if he'd kept his mouth shut, he would avoid the risk of prosecution. Yes, if prosecuted he has the legal fees and stress--which could have been avoided. But, I'm thinking it too easy for a good defense attorney to salvage the situation from here forward.
 

jmelvin

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Who knows if the guy is even a gun owner himself. The story indicates he grabbed his friend's gun and then ran out to defend his mother. I'd dare say just about anyone, seeing their very own mother, being attacked, in fact under deadly attack, might not worry too much about the long term consequences of attempting to stop that attack, particularly if it was not something considered beforehand. If Mike Doucette's office (Commonwealth Attorney in Lynchburg) brings a case against this guy I'd be highly surprised.
 

TFred

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Who knows if the guy is even a gun owner himself. The story indicates he grabbed his friend's gun and then ran out to defend his mother. I'd dare say just about anyone, seeing their very own mother, being attacked, in fact under deadly attack, might not worry too much about the long term consequences of attempting to stop that attack, particularly if it was not something considered beforehand. If Mike Doucette's office (Commonwealth Attorney in Lynchburg) brings a case against this guy I'd be highly surprised.
I agree with your assessment, and hope you are right.

In any case, this illustrates the unjust system we have in the United States, where consequences for the exact same action - taken in two different places, even within the state of Virginia - would likely turn out to be very different.

TFred
 

solus

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sorry to be the johnny come lately but i am slightly discombobulated over the details surfacing on this story...

1. shooter number two 'borrowed' a friend's firearm to return fire, er defend his mother, well to scare shooter number one.

2. why on earth didn't the friend return fire?

3. is shooter number two authorized to have possession of a firearm ?

(hey WW let me borrow your firearm so i can return fire, er er er...) you get the picture...

4. shooter two was not under duress of threat of death or bodily injury from his STEP-FATHER

5. why would the mother run towards the 'woods' for protection when there are two houses next door which are closer?

6. why weren't the nice LEs summoned to the gas station when shooter one rammed the van she was in ~ especially since allegedly there is a RO/PO in force?


the rotten in denmark comment is now placed here.

ipse
 
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WalkingWolf

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I think I can take a guess at what they were thinking or not thinking in blue.

sorry to be the johnny come lately but i am slightly discombobulated over the details surfacing on this story...

1. shooter number two 'borrowed' a friend's firearm to return fire, er defend his mother, well to scare shooter number one.
While his comments were not the best, and he should have kept his mouth shut, it seems he shot to defend his mother.

2. why on earth didn't the friend return fire?
Friend may have been in shock, or did not have a clue to the background.

3. is shooter number two authorized to have possession of a firearm ?
Maybe, maybe not, he may just be like most people.

(hey WW let me borrow your firearm so i can return fire, er er er...) you get the picture...
If you were unarmed and we were under fire, Yea I would toss you my backup without question. But I know you, and trust you.

4. shooter two was not under duress of threat of death or bodily injury from his STEP-FATHER
He didn't have to be, the law in most, if not all states allow deadly force to protect third parties.

5. why would the mother run towards the 'woods' for protection when there are two houses next door which are closer?
Panic, pure scared scatless panic. But it was a wise move, IMO, it is where I would head. Trees stop handgun rounds better than siding, and drywall, and insulation. A Person can also get lost in dense woods better than a house.

6. why weren't the nice LEs summoned to the gas station when shooter one rammed the van she was in ~ especially since allegedly there is a RO/PO in force?
They probably were, but as usual they were not at the time of the incident. They probably got there from 5 minutes to 30 minutes after, or too late.


the rotten in denmark comment is now placed here.

ipse

Hope that helps.
 

solus

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I think I can take a guess at what they were thinking or not thinking in blue.

Hope that helps.

sorry, WW...mother, w/court ordered PO/RP in place, gets rammed at convenience store and doesn't call OR WAIT for the nice LE, mother drives home - ya that's the first place i would aim if already in town, mother runs to the 'woods' instead of neighbour's house next door, son just happens to be nearby and luckly have gun he has access to so he can borrow it - or it was borrowed before hand in anticipation, and the story just keeps playing out...

this entire event sounds contrived and staged from the git-go by mother and son which now eliminates nasty divorce as he is out of the picture as well as dear mother now automatically can claim SSNI and other benefits from her deranged husband!!

nawlll WW, this smell is worse than being downwind from a pig & chicken farm next to each other...

and my hyperbole sounds as good as yours...:shocker:

ipse
 
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jmelvin

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The gas station and the home are maybe 2 minutes apart in drive time, if that, if the victim drove the 35 MPH speed limit from the Shell station at the corner of Old Graves Mill Rd (OGMR) and Timberlake Rd.. If the woman who was at the gas station was able to leave immediately upon being rammed, the station attendants may have had less than a minute to process what the heck was going on and call police (and this assumes they were near to the window to notice) before they were all out of sight again. The first attack happened at Shell at OGMR & Timberlake, the shooting occurred at the house in the 600 block of OGMR, and then Thrasher dumped the van he stole behind the fire station back near the corner of OGMR and Timberlake. He likely then walked down Timberlake Rd, continued across US-501 where Timberlake Rd becomes Fort Ave and then made a left to the apartment where he was found.

Although this area is generally developed, there are neighborhoods and some woods along the way and he could have stayed off of Timberlake Rd and in woods for much of the maybe 2.5 mile path.

With regard to the woman and the juvenile who fled the van, they may have simply been trying to get to the house, but once Thrasher started shooting just decided to keep running. Who knows? As I indicated we're maybe talking about maybe 2-1/2 minutes in at this point, not some long drawn out showdown. The woods in that area, although not exceptionally thick would have been nearly dark since this was all done around 6:30 p.m. Thicker woods are not far away where they really could have taken refuge until they felt comfortable he was unlikely to find them. At 6:30 p.m. on a Friday night, chances are high they could get to a nearby neighborhood and get some help if needed. Fortunately the son was next door and fired upon the attacker with a borrowed gun of some sort.

The area is well patrolled, but the police would have had little time to track all of this down and then try to figure out where he was. The time Thrasher rammed his ex-wife at the Shell station to the time he dumped the van behind the gas station may have been less then 5 minutes. If they were all in a hurry it may have been more like 3 or 4 minutes.
 
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solus

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jmelvin, you have been awarded a judicial RP/PO on your partner, based in part on past violent behaviour exhibited by them.

you are in public, your partner rammed or bumped or whatever your vehicle but basically violated their judicial RO/PO against you with this latest violent event...

SO you decide to leave the PUBLIC environment to go home, which your ex should know the layout of the land quite well, to an apparent PRIVATE locale away from anyone who might, could, possibly, or maybe assist you in this immediate violent plight against your ex? on top of that you go running into the woods, again something your ex should know well also...

(oh wait there is someone who can assist you...your son who happens to be able to borrow or borrowed beforehand a firearm ~ looky there what a wonderful relief)

YOU don't call or wait for the nice LEs to respond...

nawlll...just nawlll, this is entire event was scripted better than the worst Starsky & Hutch show...

and the nice county DA or deputies won't look beyond the first layer to ask questions to see if something COULD be hinky...

ipse
 

WalkingWolf

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The gas station and the home are maybe 2 minutes apart in drive time, if that, if the victim drove the 35 MPH speed limit from the Shell station at the corner of Old Graves Mill Rd (OGMR) and Timberlake Rd.. If the woman who was at the gas station was able to leave immediately upon being rammed, the station attendants may have had less than a minute to process what the heck was going on and call police (and this assumes they were near to the window to notice) before they were all out of sight again. The first attack happened at Shell at OGMR & Timberlake, the shooting occurred at the house in the 600 block of OGMR, and then Thrasher dumped the van he stole behind the fire station back near the corner of OGMR and Timberlake. He likely then walked down Timberlake Rd, continued across US-501 where Timberlake Rd becomes Fort Ave and then made a left to the apartment where he was found.

Although this area is generally developed, there are neighborhoods and some woods along the way and he could have stayed off of Timberlake Rd and in woods for much of the maybe 2.5 mile path.

With regard to the woman and the juvenile who fled the van, they may have simply been trying to get to the house, but once Thrasher started shooting just decided to keep running. Who knows? As I indicated we're maybe talking about maybe 2-1/2 minutes in at this point, not some long drawn out showdown. The woods in that area, although not exceptionally thick would have been nearly dark since this was all done around 6:30 p.m. Thicker woods are not far away where they really could have taken refuge until they felt comfortable he was unlikely to find them. At 6:30 p.m. on a Friday night, chances are high they could get to a nearby neighborhood and get some help if needed. Fortunately the son was next door and fired upon the attacker with a borrowed gun of some sort.

The area is well patrolled, but the police would have had little time to track all of this down and then try to figure out where he was. The time Thrasher rammed his ex-wife at the Shell station to the time he dumped the van behind the gas station may have been less then 5 minutes. If they were all in a hurry it may have been more like 3 or 4 minutes.

This is pretty much my opinion. For it to be a plot she would have had to have some way to convince him to attack her at the gas station. Then force him to follow her, there is no indication of this. I do fully believe that a family member would plan on how to protect other members of their family, that is not illegal.
 

solus

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This is pretty much my opinion. For it to be a plot she would have had to have some way to convince him to attack her at the gas station. Then force him to follow her, there is no indication of this. I do fully believe that a family member would plan on how to protect other members of their family, that is not illegal.

honey i need to talk to you about the proceedings...but i don't want you at the house cuz my son is still angry at you....so how bout the convenience store....

verbal words upset him, he rams her vehicle and he'd follow at that point...

ipse
 

WalkingWolf

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honey i need to talk to you about the proceedings...but i don't want you at the house cuz my son is still angry at you....so how bout the convenience store....

verbal words upset him, he rams her vehicle and he'd follow at that point...

ipse

You see more into it than I do, but that is OK, investigators should look at every angle. But I have a little experience with how people handle domestic events. What I have read does not raise the hairs on my neck. I have also dealt directly with people terrified, scared scatless, and there is not much thought process, instincts take over, or they freeze. I do believe her son probably had borrowed the gun before the incident, I would have if it was my mother that was being terrorized. In fact the wife should have been armed. These incidents happen a lot, and this is not the first one that played out at a gas station. Pretty much standard stalking, follow someone until sooner or later they stop.

We will have to see if any charges are brought against the mother, son, or both. Her instincts to go to the woods were correct, most homes do not stop bullets, doors can be kicked in, people are easy to find in a home. From experience, especially at dusk, or dark people disappear into the woods, and it is very difficult to find them alone. When illegal aliens baled from stopped vehicles that is exactly where they headed, the woods or corn fields. It would take dogs to find them.
 
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OC for ME

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1. You raise a very interesting point. What happens if I cannot shoot-to-stop because of innocents who would become backstops if I miss or perforate? Does it really make sense for government to play some game, claiming that since I fired into the dirt in order to distract it was not a legitimate lethal-force situation? ...
Get yourself some QI. Cops would never shoot into the ground (intentionally that is)...and stuff (people too) beyond the intended target are not to be considered...that's the union's thug lawyers' problem.

Absent QI...
 
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