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Would a holster like this be considered open carry?

Chief Ten Beers

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Jan 22, 2014
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171
Location
Western Kentucky
You're wearing this style of an open carry holster with your gun in it with the flap over the gun. Is this still considered open carry?

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Maverick9

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Mid-atlantic
You're wearing this style of an open carry holster with your gun in it with the flap over the gun. Is this still considered open carry?
As you know the 'law' often does not specifically deny or approve of OC-ing in many places (But it does in Texas).

Most carry laws have some nonsense about some part of something identifiable being visible.

I think 99% of people seeing that prominently displayed on your belt, with no cover garments would say 'Look, a Mountie'.

Get yourself a hat and tall boots, man!

mountie-uniform-337x600.jpg
 

WalkingWolf

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Jul 31, 2011
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North Carolina
You're wearing this style of an open carry holster with your gun in it with the flap over the gun. Is this still considered open carry?

View attachment 11173View attachment 11174
IMO it is a OC holster, but that is only my opinion. I asked a magistrate before LEOSA about openly carrying with a flap holster. Her OPINION was that it was OC, because the holster was not designed to conceal a firearm. But every officer has a opinion, and win or lose you might still take a ride.
 

Chief Ten Beers

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Jan 22, 2014
Messages
171
Location
Western Kentucky
IMO it is a OC holster, but that is only my opinion. I asked a magistrate before LEOSA about openly carrying with a flap holster. Her OPINION was that it was OC, because the holster was not designed to conceal a firearm. But every officer has a opinion, and win or lose you might still take a ride.
Thank you for your answer WalkingWolf. I'm still new to this open carry, so I'm just trying to find out all the information that I can. I know those flap holsters were primarily made for the cap and ball revolvers, and that's what I would carry in one, but to be on the safe side, I'll continue to wear an open holster such as one of these that I own. That way, there's no question about my gun being open and visible. :)

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I hope I'm not asking dumb questions for being a newbie on this forum, I'm just trying to learn so I can be as law abiding as I can. :D
 

MAC702

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Jul 31, 2011
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Nevada
I know of no state that would even put it into a gray area, but I cannot speak for Kentucky. The flap holster is a very safe holster and very obviously a holster of a firearm. Many state laws use the word "discernable" not "visible" as the key word, but I've not found KY's definition yet.
 

WalkingWolf

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North Carolina
Thank you for your answer WalkingWolf. I'm still new to this open carry, so I'm just trying to find out all the information that I can. I know those flap holsters were primarily made for the cap and ball revolvers, and that's what I would carry in one, but to be on the safe side, I'll continue to wear an open holster such as one of these that I own. That way, there's no question about my gun being open and visible. :)

View attachment 11178View attachment 11179

I hope I'm not asking dumb questions for being a newbie on this forum, I'm just trying to learn so I can be as law abiding as I can. :D
I have a flap holster for my 58 Remington, I only use it when it rains though. Drawing from it is like drawing from under clothing. I bought it years ago for SASS, but then learned that twist draw is not allowed. Not exactly sure why because there is no sweeping with twist draw.
 

09jisaac

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Apr 13, 2011
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Louisa, Kentucky
This is the statute dealing with carry a concealed deadly weapon.

Concealed has the same definition of the word does usually.

Concealed can be defined as "kept secret; hidden". So I do not think that a flap holster, that is clearly a holster and that someone would naturally assume that a firearm is within, would be considered concealed.
 

Chief Ten Beers

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Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
171
Location
Western Kentucky
I have a flap holster for my 58 Remington, I only use it when it rains though. Drawing from it is like drawing from under clothing. I bought it years ago for SASS, but then learned that twist draw is not allowed. Not exactly sure why because there is no sweeping with twist draw.
I don't have a flap holster yet, but I plan on getting one, or two, and use it for either one of my '58 Remingtons, or with my 1860 Colt. It doesn't seem right that SASS wouldn't allow those holsters, because when you draw, it's a straight up motion.
 

Chief Ten Beers

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
171
Location
Western Kentucky
I know of no state that would even put it into a gray area, but I cannot speak for Kentucky. The flap holster is a very safe holster and very obviously a holster of a firearm. Many state laws use the word "discernable" not "visible" as the key word, but I've not found KY's definition yet.
I haven't seen anything for Kentucky on a flap holster either way. Obviously it's a holster for a gun, and it won't be hidden from view, so, I don't know. I'll keep researching anyway. :)
 

Chief Ten Beers

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
171
Location
Western Kentucky
This is the statute dealing with carry a concealed deadly weapon.

Concealed has the same definition of the word does usually.

Concealed can be defined as "kept secret; hidden". So I do not think that a flap holster, that is clearly a holster and that someone would naturally assume that a firearm is within, would be considered concealed.
I wouldn't think so either, but you know how the cops can be at times, and that would give them an incentive to harass. I don't need that, so I'll do some more research before I act. :)
 

09jisaac

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Apr 13, 2011
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Louisa, Kentucky
I wouldn't think so either, but you know how the cops can be at times, and that would give them an incentive to harass. I don't need that, so I'll do some more research before I act. :)
There isn't much to research.

If an officer is going to harass you for a carrying a firearm in a flap holster, then he would harass you OCing in any other way also.

If you want to OC then be prepared to be harassed. It doesn't seem to happen much in Kentucky, but it does happen.
 

Maverick9

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Mid-atlantic
Excellent point.
Sorry, it's an excellent point but then the laws are designed to be direct and specific, and in good law, even the words are defined and vague things are included in the code, it won't necessarily help you one whit. If it is not spelled out (this kind of oddity), then it gives leeway. Leeway means you can be arrested, or firearm confiscated, or what have you. Why go there?

You have two kinds of justice - street justice - that's where vagueness lets LE make you take a ride and pay for your freedom. He is allowed to do this, which is a kind of injustice and HE KNOWS IT.

Justice in court - depends on the Judge, the DA. Can you see the PA holding up the holster 'Is this a gun holster? Can anyone tell?', then open it and have anything in it from a reptile to a lollipop to a (fake) handgrenade, and guess what, you get convicted, because he's proved the thing 'hides' or obscures from view, regardless of shape.

It's not just the law, or even the local interpretation of the law. It's the SOP, or standard of practice. Thus I would say DO NOT use a holster like that unless you have something like a permission slip from the Sheriff, or the DA or the presiding judge(s).

Good luck.
 
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MAC702

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Jul 31, 2011
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Nevada
...Can you see the PA holding up the holster 'Is this a gun holster? Can anyone tell?', then open it and have anything in it from a reptile to a lollipop to a (fake) handgrenade, and guess what, you get convicted...
I can't imagine even Kentucky being like this, no.

BB guns are so realistic looking these days, perhaps we can't carry a real gun because someone might assume it was a BB gun and then we get in trouble when they find out it was a real one?

Ha ha, I read yours before you edited it! :p

I will reaffirm, however, that I am NOT an expert in Kentucky, and am only participating as an interested observer who occasionally travels through.
 
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DrakeZ07

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Mar 26, 2011
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Location
Lexington, Ky
Sorry, it's an excellent point but then the laws are designed to be direct and specific, and in good law, even the words are defined and vague things are included in the code, it won't necessarily help you one whit. If it is not spelled out (this kind of oddity), then it gives leeway. Leeway means you can be arrested, or firearm confiscated, or what have you. Why go there?

You have two kinds of justice - street justice - that's where vagueness lets LE make you take a ride and pay for your freedom. He is allowed to do this, which is a kind of injustice and HE KNOWS IT.

Justice in court - depends on the Judge, the DA. Can you see the PA holding up the holster 'Is this a gun holster? Can anyone tell?', then open it and have anything in it from a reptile to a lollipop to a (fake) handgrenade, and guess what, you get convicted, because he's proved the thing 'hides' or obscures from view, regardless of shape.

It's not just the law, or even the local interpretation of the law. It's the SOP, or standard of practice. Thus I would say DO NOT use a holster like that unless you have something like a permission slip from the Sheriff, or the DA or the presiding judge(s).

Good luck.
We don't have Prosecuting, or District Attorneys [PA/DA], we have Commonwealth's Attorneys [CA].

Also, half of what you said wouldn't apply to Kentucky, because you didn't bother to read any of our statutes, or laws, regarding CC, or our OC court precedents.

Go look for Commonwealth of Kentucky vs. Holland. The judge ruled that a firearm 'worn outside of a jacket, or shirt, and in plain view, is Openly carried, and no man may question that persons right to carry it'. Although a firearm is technically concealed within a flap holster, the holster and therein the firearm, are worn outside of a jacket, and/or shirt. If it can be argued that the holster is obviously holding a firearm, then you could get away with OC'ing in a holster that 100% conceals the firearm from view of a naked eye. HOWEVER, I don't think that'd hold water in court, because the firearm ITSELF is hidden from plain view of a naked eye, by the holster, even if the holster is gun shaped and worn outside of a jacket or shirt.

If you're feeling froggy, you can always be a test case for us!
 

OC for ME

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White Oak Plantation
The only person who must calim that a flap holster is concealing a firearm is the arresting cop. Cop's ain't dumb and a PA/DA/CA is not gunna ding his rep for prosecuting a citizen because some idiot cop could not figure out that a holster with a flap is not a fanny pack alternative.
 

DrakeZ07

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Mar 26, 2011
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Lexington, Ky
The only person who must calim that a flap holster is concealing a firearm is the arresting cop. Cop's ain't dumb and a PA/DA/CA is not gunna ding his rep for prosecuting a citizen because some idiot cop could not figure out that a holster with a flap is not a fanny pack alternative.
Let's do what the sheeple like to do, and ask a cop about this! Someone go find Glockster.
 

DrakeZ07

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Lexington, Ky
I would like to hear from a LEO also and get his opinion on this. :)
I was being sarcastic.

It'll prolly be a lie; that he is a cop, and his opinion. They are not bound to the truth.
Come now, we all know that Cops NEVER lie to us civilians, and not even the most pro-2A/Pro-citizen cop, like KYGlockster, would EVER lie to us, they're above such petty actions, and we can trust their word as being equal to the law with their profound, and near god-like knowledge of every statute, Administrative Regulation, and County/City Ordnance, which they are sworn to uphold, and enforce.
 
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